Official Pioneer SC-68/67 Thread - Page 32

yes & yes, you'll still have the OSD

^^
I didn't know there was uncompressed FLAC format I knew of Apple lossless ALAC.
did you buy this from HDTracks? I'm asking because I'd like to try buying some hi-rez music from them. how do you know if it's compressed or uncompressed?

Anyone installed the new gapless firmware yet?
I did last night; the update went A-OK.

For record, I used the same 8GB PNY USB memory as I did for the pandora update. I deleted the previous Pandora update files off it, formatted it again as FAT32 just to be sure and it was recognized & installed no problems.

wow! that's a lot of work you did I wouldn't spend any more time worrying about the message. trust me.

all these room correction EQ systems can get tripped up on phase. I've never had it happen with my speakers which deliberately reflect sound being planar speakers but every situation & room setup is different.

the usual advice is if you're sure the external connection wiring is correct, + to +, - to -, then you're good and just ignore the message. I don't think Pioneer or any company expects an owner to go to the lengths you have even checking internal wiring some speaker companies deliberately wire a driver out of phase for a specific sound signature. for example, I've read that Magnepan does this with the model I own to enhance the illusion of center depth. it could explain how in the end, the combined sound gets sensed as in phase...who knows.

you've certainly investigated it to great length...time to just ignore the message & complete the calibration

1st, thanks for the info on buying hi-rez files.

2nd, I confess to being confused.

to help, let's consider this: for 2 channel sources, for the sub to do anything, if you're fronts are set to Large, you'll need to add surround processing to convert 2.0 >> 5.1. if you are staying stereo sound, you'll need to 1) have fronts set to Small or Plus AND not be in Pure Direct audio mode. if you're in Pure Direct, the sub won't produce bass because all the digital processing & bass mgmt is bypassed.

for the sub to work with 2 ch sources, you should either be in Direct for 2 channel reproduction (2.1), Auto Surround & either a surround mode or downsampled Stereo mode. At least it used to be downsampled stereo, if Stereo is straight stereo in the new receivers, then the sub may work differently than in previous models, but the key is don't use Pure Direct mode if you want the sub

also, check to see what crossover you set. if you set it to one of the low ones, like 50 hz, the music you're playing may not have bass as low as the crossover. for typical use, 80Hz is the suggested starting place that fits most speaker setups.

and running MCACC is independent of the input, doesn't matter.
using MCACC is a matter of taste. you can choose to use it or not, by selecting which preset to use, Symmetry, All Channels Adjust, Front Aligned, or Off.

when you select Pure Direct listening mode, most of the MCACC functions are turned off but not all. the ones we know are turned off are: the standing wave filter, phase control, EQ settings, speaker distances/delays. based on anecdotal evidence from a number of posters over the years, we believe the preamp output levels (channel levels & trim) are left on. we think this because the overall volume seems to change a bit in Pure Direct when you also select the MCACC preset (deactivates the channel output levels). in my case, the volume drops a bit, since nearly all my channels get a level boost in the calibration.

hope that makes sense.

your receiver should work in a logical way, consistent with how MCACC has worked for many years. a specific input (coax) should not effect at all how the bass management works. what will is the listening mode you're using, Auto Surround, Stereo, Direct & Pure Direct.

if you want 2.1 sound from a 2.0 source, meaning sub gets bass, then you're on the correct path. Set fronts to Small, set your initial crossover at 80, and don't use Pure Direct for stereo source. or you can add PLIIx, NeoX, THX and derive 5.1 from 2.0 because now, the bass from derived center & surrounds will also be sent to the sub.

did you hear test tones from the sub during your calibration? and...
do you hear the sub with 5.1 DVD/Blu-ray? you should since that is a dedicated LFE track + redirected bass.
Edited by ss9001 - 1/22/13 at 5:27pm

the reset procedure is in the manual, top of pg 81. read the directions but in summary it is

turn the receiver off with the Standby/On button. then press & hold down the front panel Enter button while also pressing the Standby On/Off button again. you will see a display message of Reset? select No/Yes. that's it.

off the top of my head, I don't know what the other does.

sorry that's not the full factory reset to default settings. read my post. it's in the manual & it's not what you're posting.

I don't know what your suggested steps will do but they certainly are not the steps to do a factory reset.

Pure Direct on a 2 channel source = no bass to the sub

Pure Direct on a 5.1 encoded disc = bass to the sub

if the disc is 5.1, you will get sub activity in Pure Direct because there's a dedicated .1 LFE track. BUT you'll still lose the redirected bass from center & surrounds because the DSP is not used.

when I play 5.1 SACD/DVD-A music, I typically use Direct because I don't want the music matrixed to 7.1. but I still get the full use of my subs because of the dedicated .1 "sub" track.

here's why:

Pure Direct
-small/large/plus, crossover, EQ, speaker distances/phase control/standing wave filter - not used. DSP bypassed
-preamp channel levels - used unless you also turn MCACC preset to Off

Direct
-small/large/plus, crossover, EQ, speaker distances/phase control/standing wave filter, channel levels - all used
-matrix surround processing - not used, you will get straight surround decoding of the disc

Auto Surround & all surround processing modes (Prologic, Neo, THX, Optimum, ALC, reverb surround)
-every form of DSP in use depending on user selections
Edited by ss9001 - 1/23/13 at 4:22am

more info on Pure Direct use

Analog Direct

Pure Direct has always been for all practical purposes a form of pure analog bypass. on all my Pio AVR's, I use the multichannel analog inputs for an old quadraphonic receiver with preamp outs. and when I use Pure Direct, the receiver display actually says Analog Direct. the manuals have always said that Pure Direct turns off nearly all digital processing. bass management being done by DSP's, it is bypassed. the only processing done in Pure Direct is the channel level adjustment and that's not stated anywhere but has been inferred by many who've noticed a volume change also turning the MCACC preset to off, which means MCACC is OFF OFF

sidebar -- Analog to Digital Converters in the receiver

a) multichannel ADC's
up until about 2 model years ago, multichannel analogs had ADCs on all channels, so in Direct & Auto Surround modes, you could apply bass mgmt & surround processing. but starting with the SC-37/35 generation, ADC's have been removed from the multichannel analogs so by default all they ever can be is straight analog, and that's why you can't add surround modes or the receiver's bass mgmt to a hi-end player, like the Oppo 95/105, when using its 5.1/7.1 analog connections; you have to use the player's bass mgmt & speaker distance settings instead.

b) 2 channel ADC's
there are still ADC's on 2 ch digital coax/opt/2 ch analog so user can use DSP / bass mgmt / digital processing. all modern receivers still have these.

SACD Direct

if you want your SACD player to send DSD stream, not converted to PCM first, not only set the player menu to do that, but you'll NEED to set the receiver to Pure Direct, too. because adding any form of bass mgmt, processing to DSD means it has to be converted to PCM first. this has no audible effect either way, but some purists want SACD to be a straight converstion DSD >> Analog instead of DSD >> PCM >> Analog. but when you do that you lose all the benefits of having bass management & room correction for playing SACD's.

how Pure Direct is used is not unique to Pioneer. Denon goes so far as turn display lights, video signals completely off in their pure direct mode. what I don't know is if Denon completely bypasses bass mgmt but if they are purist enough to turn all non-audio related functions off, I suspect they turn off all digital processing too.
Edited by ss9001 - 1/23/13 at 5:11am