Manufacturers: PLEASE include full bass management on more 2.0 receivers, integrateds and preamps

I just built a 2.1 system that works great with a 5.1 receiver and some parameter setting. I don't know why anybody even bothers with 2.0 receivers and integrateds.

Agree. With being able to do so much for my room in the digital domain with an AVR... I can't imagine going back to a 2ch analog preamp ever again.

I also don't see the market for such a device being worthwhile for most manufacturers. Most 'philes eschew subs and the 2ch market outside of niche 'phile stuff is very limited, and overall has been shrinking for ages.

Or could that be because they tried to integrate subs with 2ch analog preamps. I don't see many digital 2.1 channel preamps on the market. (i.e just like an AVR but only 2.1 instead of 7.1 or what have you)

Why aren't there more 2.1 channel preamps on the market? Why do most people seem to stick with old school 2ch analog preamps that have no bass management or EQ or time alignment capabilities that are fundamental for integrating subs/speakers/room..???

Not hard to do, but you need to obtain an external crossover.

I think that the traditional 2 channel person is about being traditional.

There is not any logical need at all for specialized 2.x equipment as long as you can easily configure 5.1 channel down for 2.x channel operation. The 2.0 market is about being traditional.

Quite true. The trouble is that no self-respecting audiophile would admit to using an AVR as their preamp. Even though it could do wonders for their room integration. No, let's just keep using 30-year-old technology.

I wouldn't like to bet too much on that statement even being remotely universal and many "better" parts will not make any audible difference. Agreed. Many I read are simply using a splitter cable in between pre/power and running the 2.0 wide open and with no measurement gear or willingness to learn how it all fits together, get predictably poor results.

Why doesn't someone just make a Digital room correction module that is can be placed in between the Pre-amp out and the Main amp in? I would be interested in something like that rather than get rid of the components I already have.

There are some devices like that available... http://www.minidsp.com/

That's just a matter of specification. Parts to do the job right are pretty much commodities, these days.

I don't know that a lot of two channel folks feel they need subwoofers. Depending on musical tastes, listening levels & the design of the main speakers I could see how a good percentage (of an already small population) could come to the conclusion that a subwoofer isn't necessary thus making the market even smaller.

That said I would be very interested in seeing more products along these lines.

Did the same, its a pain to bring over a TV for the OSD.

I do wish for more 2.1 intergraded or pre-amp.
There are no equipment that are prefect. All design have some comprises, and 2 ch equipment should be easier for the manufacturer to get it more 'right'.

I'm sure that I can't change your opinion, no matter what facts I provide.

The facts are that the FTC still regulates power ratings, and the regulations plus the need to keep warranty costs reasonable pretty well define the capabilities of power transformers, heat sinks, and output devices.

Being lectured on the topic of power transformers tickles the irony bone of an EE who could possibly have been winding his own transformers before your father was a glint in your grandfather's eye! ;-)

Why do you think that this mysterious undisclosed they hasn't heard a properly-configured 2.1 system?

I've been in the engineering offices of some well-known mainstream consumer electronics firms and seen their house systems. Cost is no object! They know far more about configuring audio systems then most audio journalists or self-appointed web eggspurts. Wanna compare notes about configurting systems with say, Floyd Toole?

I wish you'd make your mind up about which side of this issue you are on! ;-)

So you're now telling us that using subwoofers is antithetical to improved bass quality?

I notice that your chart ignores certain well-known instruments that do have response below 30 Hz.

To take an approach whose inverse was tried here lately, do you even have a 2.1 system of your own? ;-)

Looking at the chart you provided, I see that they start the sub-bass range at 63 Hz. There are a number of sound quality advantages to splitting the workload at this point. But, you already know them, right? ;-)

Like I do, you can just use a AVR as the pre and run dedicated poweramps to drive the speakers. No need to get too hung up on AVR power issues.

The best 7.2 system I know of and have heard extensively is based on a ca. $300 AVR with resistive pads on the speaker terminals. From there it is off to 8 channels of pro-grade speaker management systems (one idling for a total of 9 channels in 3 boxes) and 8 pro grade powered speakers with 2 subs driven by pro grade power amps (each bridged) on their own 230 volt circuit.

If one treats a modern receiver's power amp like it is a heavy-duty line driver it is all there - lots of voltage (or not if you don't need it), low source impedance, and clean sound. Of course, it is barely idling but being on vacation doesn't hurt its performance.

I think a good option are those 2 ch Integrated Amplifiers with PRE and Power amp inputs and then use a Mini DSP in between

Go to the DIY speaker section here and other sites, and you'll see plenty of people actually using it for that. It is a speaker processor with capability to do xovers, EQ and delay. Their site is pretty poor - maybe understanding what the unit can they thought people would know.
Doing an active xover between sub and mains is no different in principle to doing it in a 2 way speaker.

They can be used as crossovers...

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-crossovers/digital-crossover-basics

The other commonly chosen alternatives is to use one of these:

http://www.behringer.com/en/Products/DCX2496.aspx



There are three separate channels (3 ins, 6 outs) in the one box, so it is perfect for setting up 2.1 systems.

There are three of these in that very large 7.1 system that one of my friends has. Great sound!

There are actually a few units out there and I think it is a good trend. We've got the Harmon Kardon KH990 and the Classe CP-800 which I blogged about a while back. If you want to get a bit more sophisticated there's the DEQX, TACT and Trinnov.