Manufacturers: PLEASE include full bass management on more 2.0 receivers, integrateds and preamps - Page 2

Donut, here is another you should check out.

You can "easily" put one or two subwoofers in a system with an analog preamp if the subwoofer has its on crossover. I just added two Velodyne Optimum 8's into my 2ch system and have gotten excellent results. I just wanted a slight "beef up" of the bottom end in my system. The subs have speaker inputs and line level inputs and outputs handled by the sub's crossover. I tried the speaker input setup first and after dinking with the sub crossover and sub volume I've got the subs merged seamlessly into the sound stage. I'm so pleased that at this point I have no interest in trying the line level route: preamp -> sub -> amp -> speaker, even after buying new interconnects to facilitate the setup. And, obviously, using the speaker input on the sub still allows full range to my speakers vs the sub crossover filtering low end to the speakers with the line level approach. I forgot to add that these subs also have an automatic "room correction or calibration" feature and come with a microphone.

larry

I agree and do the same with a couple of integrated amps. Arguably a better arrangement and makes bass management output a non-issue

If you measure the main speakers by themselves you can 'craft' the sub crossover to fill in the bottom end. That's how I do it when I integrate subs into a system without a crossover for the mains. See the blog article I wrote:subwoofer crossover frequency, slope and phase for two channel systems

I like using 2-way monitors in my smallish room and have found that they benefit greatly from having 60 hz and below taken off them. It increases their clarity/crispness in the mid-range... and especially when I want to crank the volume!

Most subs I have looked at in my price range don't have speaker output after its crossover. So without an AVR or added digital processing unit it was impossible to crossover from monitors to subs. I could only run monitors full range with the subs in support.

And I would also be dubious on relying on a sub crossover to feed my speakers even if it had one. I have two identical subs in my room that were purchased new at the same time. A while back I thought I had blown one of them because it was sounding very muddy and booming compared to the other one that was very tight and tactile. Turns out the problem was that the low pass filter bypass switch had been knocked and the sub's low pass filter was active (even though it was set as high as it would go at 120 hz) Flicking the switch back to 'bypass' instantly solved the problem. I was astonished at the difference between the digital crossover in the AVR compared to a physical low pass filter.
Edited by kiwi2 - 8/6/12 at 11:13am

Agreed.

It's hard to buy a decent 2 or 4 channel amp in car audio without analog high pass filter and low pass filter dials with on/off switches. I think the home audio manufacturers are oblivious to the fact that their market is changing. It doesn't have to be full digital bass management. Most people wanting to integrate subs would be happy with that kind of dial setup and and an LFE jack on the back of their amp as long as the crossovers were decent. How much could this add to the cost of an integrated amp?

Yes, and unfortunately you won't know until you try. And it's tough to judge by others experiences because the room size and type, speaker type and placement, and the speaker's characteristics will all come into play when trying to dial in the sub. And who has the exact same room, speakers and placement? And ears. My case is probably the "simplest" because my mains are full range and I just wanted to extend the low end some and beef up a bit where they overlap.

larry

I've been thinking about the same "issue" for awhile now. I have had an all-in-one (music, HT, gaming) 2.1 system running by a receiver. After I upgraded my speakers and adding a quality external amp, I feel there's more to it than the music performance I'm getting now and feel the pre-amp/dac section in the receiver is the weak link.

But it seems to me that I won't be able get there unless I spend about $5k for pre/pro such as Anthem AVM 50v or Classe CP800. My current receiver is Anthem MRX and I love its room correction and bass management but I feel pre-amp section might be a little weak to get the best out of my system. My speakers are Focal Electra and Paradigm Sub12. Amp is Pass Labs XA30.5.

Anyone feel integrating a pre-amp/dac like Peachtree NovaPre or Benchmark Dac pre is a good move for music playback? My main concerns are losing room correction, quality sub integration and EQ currently provided by MRX.
Edited by kzhtoo - 8/6/12 at 12:00am

And I'm not even sure AVM50v will give significant upgrade over MRX in terms of sound quality. plus I'll be paying for video processing capability I don't care much about.

But for Classe CP800, I won't get hdmi ins.
Edited by kzhtoo - 8/6/12 at 12:22am

What's the difference in what you hear for 2ch if the crossover is in the sub or the preamp?

larry

Speaker-level crossovers are always a crap shoot unless specifically designed for the specific speakers involved, because their performance depends acutely on the impedance curves of the customer's speakers.

I recently migrated from using the speaker level crossovers in my sub to the bass management in my AVR, and the improvement in over-all cleanliness and bass detail was astounding. The mains have 8 inch woofers, so they are probably far more competent in the bass than most systems with 6.5 or 4 inch woofers.

Or, the third option - a separate component.

In any case its about the crossover frequencies, the slopes, the relative levels and the routing of the channels, any equalization, etc., not where the circuity is. That presumes the circuitry is at a reasonable quality level.