AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 11

post #301 of 537
3/15/13 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

No third-party codecs, no hassles with the PC or extenders. Keeping it simple is always good.

If you use Shark it's painless and requires two clicks to configure (for XBMC - none for WMC). Just be sure to unzip the download! Don't install it via the downloaded exe file or you might end up with malware installed in your browser, etc.

Now you tell us wink.gif I was wondering how that virus got on my PC eek.gif (Luckily Norton killed it.)

You might also consider posting a direct download link. I don't mind ads but Shark007's page is cluttered with them and the layout is very confusing. I went through 3 or 4 wasted downloads before I found the download link for his actual codecs instead of some junk his site was selling frown.gif No telling which one had the virus....
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #302 of 537
3/15/13 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post


It also depends on how you use it. For DVR and Live TV, it works great. It has list views and folder views. The interface is very functional and intuitive and works great with a remote.

If you have codec errors, need constant reboots and need SxxEyy file names, it sounds like you are using it as a file streamer, which I agree WMC sucks at. I wouldn't even attempt to use WMC for that kind of thing. But as a DVR, which I think is the subject of this thread and of this forum, it works beautifully.

It's not perfect of course. I wish it had some of the features of my old satellite DVRs, like multiple live buffers, PIP, ability to record from the beginning of the live buffer, etc. But on the whole, it's fully functional and works well. And best of all, it's subscription free.

My issues are all with DVR and live TV. The interface looks pretty but is dysfunctional, the system is unstable, it's constantly having weird problems, it's just not a good DVR system. It has so many things, like normal DVR/TiVo folders, a normal DVR/TiVo view of recorded shows, SxxEyy, recording from buffer, etc, etc that are missing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Having used several PCs, video cards and various configurations you can run into a pickle once in a while. Worse issue I ran across was coming out of sleep where I would lose video at times. I had to close/start WMC to get video back. Playing with the power saving settings I worked it out. Current setup hibernates like a champ and to some degree extenders make WMC easier.

Currently, my PC is in my dedicated room's closet (image posted a while back) and I'm using a Xbox 360 in the den. With a harmony remote the Xbox is an appliance. The PC (aspect) doesn't exist at all except when I want HD audio/video in the dedicated room. If you want to look for quirks you can certainly find them. As an example WMC won't restart a recording if it fails at some point (from my experience). Say I reboot the PC at 7:00pm just as a recording is scheduled to start. When it reboots it won't record the rest of the show where TiVo would.

Feature wise DVRs are about DVRing and the mere fact I have four tuners trumps any nitpick I might have about one model or another. As an example I have zero issue with how WMC places shows in folders. Complaining about little things to me is like complaining about the layout of the car's dashboard... sure it might bother you but your trip is going to be virtually the same regardless.

It's not nitpicking, it's pretty bad that MCE has some problems that even Comcast's awful Sci Atlanta (in my area) DVRs don't have. It's about the overall UX, which, with MCE, absolutely sucks. TiVo has it right, their UX is great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

... also there are tons of add-ons that give you a ridiculous amount of options on file management, layouts, interface, etc. (Media Portal, Media Browser, Recorded TV HD, etc.). There's no way you could ever customize Tivo like that.

Great. Add more instability and inconsistent/ dysfunctional interfaces to an already unstable and dysfunctional system.
Reply
Reply
post #303 of 537
3/15/13 at 2:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


Now you tell us wink.gif I was wondering how that virus got on my PC eek.gif (Luckily Norton killed it.)

You might also consider posting a direct download link.

 

The best you can do is here...

 

http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-Setup-and-usage

 

The downloaded file on occasion has been broken and installed the suggested software whether you select it or not. I think virus might be overstating it (what got installed) but never the less it is/was a low blow and in one case they made you manually uninstall it. I don't blame him/them for wanting some benefit (money) for their work. I just think the stealth installation is too much (obviously)... by unzipping you simply run his install bypassing the other install options.

Reply
Reply
post #304 of 537
3/15/13 at 2:25pm
Why not get a malware-free codec pack like CCCP or K-Lite instead or just install the components you need directly?
Reply
Reply
post #305 of 537
3/15/13 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

My original comment was based on the 2-tuner TiVo Premiere, which does OTA and Clear QAM. If you have a Premiere you are still pretty much at the mercy of your cable co.

But the thing about technology is it changes so fast, it's hard to stay caught up. My understanding is the newer 4-tuner CableCARD TiVos can stream protected content to the new TiVo Minis, much as WMC streams to extenders. So TiVo's new products have erased that advantage from WMC.

TiVo does not support ClearQAM. There is a way to get it to work with a CableCard and then pulling the CableCard, but that's not supported, it's just people on TCF screwing around to see what will work.
This thread says otherwise, but I'm guessing you're right and they were wrong. (They may have meant that the Premiere will receive clear QAM, but duh - so will any CableCARD-equipped tuner!)

But that actually makes things worse for the TiVo! If I only have basic cable and I'm lucky enough to have it in the clear (increasingly rare nowadays, but quite common when the Premiere was released), why does TiVo insist that I pay my cable co. an extra buck or two each month for a CableCARD I shouldn't even need?

It's a small thing, but it still adds to the cost side of the TiVo. And it reinforces my comment that with TiVo, you're pretty much at the mercy of your cable company. You need their CableCARD, their tuning adapter, and if they want to flag the entire universe copy-once - even OTA channels - well, at least one Premiere can stream to another rolleyes.gif

Of course, that's a big reason I recommend going dual OTA+cable, but if you want four tuners, two Premieres (and two CableCards, apparently) is your best option; yet the TCO is easily over $1K and well above the TCO of an HTPC with WMC 7 plus an XBox extender.

TiVo's main advantage is that you don't have to pay that $1K+ all at once. You can buy two Premieres for a modest cost and just pay monthly for the subscriptions, CableCARDs, etc. And setting up WMC and an extender is no trivial task, even for a technically savvy person. But those who've gotten WMC 7 set up and working are better off if they have OTA, better off if they have cable, and better off if they have both.
Reply
Reply
post #306 of 537
3/15/13 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

Now you tell us wink.gif I was wondering how that virus got on my PC eek.gif (Luckily Norton killed it.)


You might also consider posting a direct download link.

The best you can do is here...

http://shark007.net/forum/Thread-Setup-and-usage

The downloaded file on occasion has been broken and installed the suggested software whether you select it or not. I think virus might be overstating it (what got installed) but never the less it is/was a low blow and in one case they made you manually uninstall it. I don't blame him/them for wanting some benefit (money) for their work. I just think the stealth installation is too much (obviously)... by unzipping you simply run his install bypassing the other install options.

Thanks. To be fair, Norton called it a "virus," and I don't know for sure it came from Shark007. But I do remember downloading, installing, & uninstalling several files before I got the right one, and even then I'm pretty sure I ran the installer rather than just unzipping it. I did decline the "suggested" software but I don't remember if it installed anyhow confused.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Why not get a malware-free codec pack like CCCP or K-Lite instead or just install the components you need directly?

I think I'm fine now, but I agree that's a better option, at least if you know exactly what you need. But Shark007's advantage is that (possible malware aside) it's super simple to install and configure everything, especially for a newbie who doesn't yet know what he needs.
Reply
Reply
post #307 of 537
3/15/13 at 3:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron Ives View Post

Why not get a malware-free codec pack like CCCP or K-Lite instead or just install the components you need directly?

 

Probably no reason not to... in my case I found Shark first and with WMC and XBMC it has worked 100% of the time with little or zero configuration/issues. I was going to look elsewhere until I read unzipping the file gets you a clean copy. 

Reply
Reply
post #308 of 537
3/15/13 at 3:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

This thread says otherwise, but I'm guessing you're right and they were wrong. (They may have meant that the Premiere will receive clear QAM, but duh - so will any CableCARD-equipped tuner!)

But that actually makes things worse for the TiVo! If I only have basic cable and I'm lucky enough to have it in the clear (increasingly rare nowadays, but quite common when the Premiere was released), why does TiVo insist that I pay my cable co. an extra buck or two each month for a CableCARD I shouldn't even need?

It's a small thing, but it still adds to the cost side of the TiVo. And it reinforces my comment that with TiVo, you're pretty much at the mercy of your cable company. You need their CableCARD, their tuning adapter, and if they want to flag the entire universe copy-once - even OTA channels - well, at least one Premiere can stream to another rolleyes.gif

Of course, that's a big reason I recommend going dual OTA+cable, but if you want four tuners, two Premieres (and two CableCards, apparently) is your best option; yet the TCO is easily over $1K and well above the TCO of an HTPC with WMC 7 plus an XBox extender.

TiVo's main advantage is that you don't have to pay that $1K+ all at once. You can buy two Premieres for a modest cost and just pay monthly for the subscriptions, CableCARDs, etc. And setting up WMC and an extender is no trivial task, even for a technically savvy person. But those who've gotten WMC 7 set up and working are better off if they have OTA, better off if they have cable, and better off if they have both.

I don't know how else to say it. TiVo does not support ClearQAM. There are ways to trick it into tuning it without a CableCard, but TiVo makes no claims of any kind that ClearQAM is supported. The ways I have seen require a CableCard, which you then pull, but this is a trick, it's not supported by TiVo. Some cable companies are handling SDV and copy protection properly by not using SDV, and only copy protecting HBO, which requires it, i.e. Comcast. Although I hate their service because of triple-channeling, internet issues, and a host of other things, those are two things they go right. Obviously it's not the same case for everyone, as some cable companies are bone-headed on those topics. MCE doesn't offer the same UX that TiVo does. I have MCE right now, and it sucks. It's just not a good reliable, always-there DVR platform, even though the tech specs are fantastic, and surpass all the other solutions on the market. I think I'm going to move MCE over to OTA eventually, and then use TiVo for cable. I'll probably put series recordings for some PBS shows on the MCE machine, since Comcast re-compresses the local channels.
Reply
Reply
post #309 of 537
3/15/13 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

My issues are all with DVR and live TV. The interface looks pretty but is dysfunctional, the system is unstable, it's constantly having weird problems, it's just not a good DVR system. It has so many things, like normal DVR/TiVo folders, a normal DVR/TiVo view of recorded shows, SxxEyy, recording from buffer, etc, etc that are missing.

It's not nitpicking, it's pretty bad that MCE has some problems that even Comcast's awful Sci Atlanta (in my area) DVRs don't have. It's about the overall UX, which, with MCE, absolutely sucks. TiVo has it right, their UX is great.

Great. Add more instability and inconsistent/ dysfunctional interfaces to an already unstable and dysfunctional system.
Wow. You and I must be talking completely different things. You are talking about WMC, right?

So, let me get this straight. WMC has codec issues with WTV files.rolleyes.gif

Since you have no idea to change the interface to the list view, you claim it doesn't exist.

The interface works pretty much exactly the same as every other DVR I've ever used. Guide shows the guide, list shows the list, the transport buttons control playback, numbers tune channels and the arrow keys navigate. How else would you recommend a DVR be controlled? Does Tivo read your mind or something?

Hmmm... adding channel icons, more lines to the guide and a way to launch more apps adds inconsistency and instability. Let me know when Tivo allows you to enhance their UX. rolleyes.gif
Reply
Reply
post #310 of 537
3/15/13 at 7:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post


Wow.

 

Best left for the HTPC forum... One of the reasons this thread isn't there...

Reply
Reply
post #311 of 537
3/15/13 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdavej View Post

Wow. You and I must be talking completely different things. You are talking about WMC, right?

So, let me get this straight. WMC has codec issues with WTV files.rolleyes.gif

Since you have no idea to change the interface to the list view, you claim it doesn't exist.

The interface works pretty much exactly the same as every other DVR I've ever used. Guide shows the guide, list shows the list, the transport buttons control playback, numbers tune channels and the arrow keys navigate. How else would you recommend a DVR be controlled? Does Tivo read your mind or something?

Hmmm... adding channel icons, more lines to the guide and a way to launch more apps adds inconsistency and instability. Let me know when Tivo allows you to enhance their UX. rolleyes.gif

There is no normal list view available in WMC, only the graphical view that only works if you have like 5 shows, and the square view that's not a list, but rather more of a grid, and the only way to get stuff into folders is to list by name, not date recorded like normal.

TiVo has the normal straight up-and-down list, the UI elements are all balanced size wise, not like MCE's tiny little elements for selection shows to record and other functions while having giant show thumbnails, and TiVo's UI elements are all 100% user-intuitive, whereas MCE is not.

TiVo is a finished package, you don't have to add crap to it and make it unstable in the process. Pretty soon I will have both side by side, and I can really compare them, but I will tell you right now that my 2004 TiVo Series 2's SD interface was much better than MCE's interface. In fact, the basic elements of Comcast's interface are better than MCE, it's just that the graphics are hideously ugly and in SD only.

The other thing TIVo has is a native mode, which would be really hard with a PC-based system. With native mode, I will go back to letting the video processor handle the video processing, not the PC.
Reply
Reply
post #312 of 537
3/15/13 at 10:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

There is no normal list view available in WMC, only the graphical view that only works if you have like 5 shows, and the square view that's not a list, but rather more of a grid, and the only way to get stuff into folders is to list by name, not date recorded like normal.

TiVo has the normal straight up-and-down list, the UI elements are all balanced size wise, not like MCE's tiny little elements for selection shows to record and other functions while having giant show thumbnails, and TiVo's UI elements are all 100% user-intuitive, whereas MCE is not.

TiVo is a finished package, you don't have to add crap to it and make it unstable in the process. Pretty soon I will have both side by side, and I can really compare them, but I will tell you right now that my 2004 TiVo Series 2's SD interface was much better than MCE's interface. In fact, the basic elements of Comcast's interface are better than MCE, it's just that the graphics are hideously ugly and in SD only.

The other thing TIVo has is a native mode, which would be really hard with a PC-based system. With native mode, I will go back to letting the video processor handle the video processing, not the PC.

a little biased?
Reply
Reply
post #313 of 537
3/15/13 at 10:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rantanamo View Post

a little biased?

If anything, I was singing praises of what MCE promised to do. Before I tried it and realized that it's terrible. I'm a while removed from TiVo, I've been using cable company DVRs for a couple years now.
Reply
Reply
post #314 of 537
3/16/13 at 6:38am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post


Before I tried it and realized that it's terrible.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post


I think I'm going to move MCE over to OTA eventually, and then use TiVo for cable.

 

You do realize even you disagree with what you say? Even if you repeat it endlessly... apparently it's not terrible enough to dump.


Edited by Charles R - 3/16/13 at 6:46am
Reply
Reply
post #315 of 537
3/16/13 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post


You do realize even you disagree with what you say? Even if you repeat it endlessly... apparently it's not terrible enough to dump.

The only reason I'd use it for OTA is because I want an HTPC anyways (Windows 7 desktop HTPC, not WMC), and OTA is not so important that I want to drop another $650 on ANOTHER TiVo just for OTA and then pay for the electricity for that to sit doing nothing 90% of the time. Did you ever think of that? Plus, with that setup, any recordings I prefer OTA I will still replicate them on TiVo through cable, so that I can trust that I have them, even if they are slightly lower quality. It's passable as a crappy DVR, it's what I'm using now, it's just not a good experience at all. Now that I've had more experience with this stuff, I know that the best setup is the Windows 7 desktop on a PC, and everything else handled by dedicated boxes.
Reply
Reply
post #316 of 537
3/16/13 at 7:51am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

It's passable as a crappy DVR, it's what I'm using now, it's just not a good experience at all.

 

So now it's passable not terrible. You still don't agree with yourself and the more times you state it the less you agree.

Reply
Reply
post #317 of 537
3/17/13 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

So now it's passable not terrible. You still don't agree with yourself and the more times you state it the less you agree.

Are you having fun splitting hairs? Comcast's DVR is a total POS, but it is usable day to day for basic DVR duties. MCE was a whole different set of problems, but it is still usable for now as a basic DVR. I did not contradict myself, as much as you don't seem to understand synonyms, or someone's reasoning as to why a bad product might be helpful and useful in *some* situations, i.e. MCE for OTA.
Reply
Reply
post #318 of 537
3/17/13 at 4:59pm

Geez, people, quit feeding the Energizer Bunny and he'll eventually run down!!!

Reply
Reply
post #319 of 537
3/24/13 at 7:53am
Thread Starter 

I use 30-second skip forward to skip commercials and pretty much always have to hit back a couple of times or I miss a few seconds. Well no longer. I ran across this...

 

 

It shows you how to edit the length of time for skipping forward and back along with a few other hints.


Edited by Charles R - 3/24/13 at 8:17am
Reply
Reply
post #320 of 537
3/24/13 at 11:28am
Thanks. I've always felt skip forward went just a bit too far and skip back went just a bit too little.

I'll try 25 secs forward/10 secs back for a while and see how it goes.
Reply
Reply
post #321 of 537
3/24/13 at 3:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I use 30-second skip forward to skip commercials and pretty much always have to hit back a couple of times or I miss a few seconds. Well no longer. I ran across this...

It shows you how to edit the length of time for skipping forward and back along with a few other hints.
On the topic of tweaks, is there any way to change the default keyboard shortcuts for WMC? I searched the 'net but didn't find anything on this specific topic, just lists of the default shortcuts.
Reply
Reply
post #322 of 537
3/24/13 at 6:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I'll try 25 secs forward/10 secs back for a while and see how it goes.

 

My theory is reduce the 30 seconds (skip forward) by a few seconds which will basically offset my reaction time (seeing there is still a commercial on). So I'll land at the return of the show (skipping even 30-second segments). Versus 10 seconds or so into the show... and having to skip back a couple of times (back into commercials).


Edited by Charles R - 3/25/13 at 5:42am
Reply
Reply
post #323 of 537
3/29/13 at 11:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenan View Post

On the topic of tweaks, is there any way to change the default keyboard shortcuts for WMC?

I think you could use any keyboard re-mapping (software or registry hack) to accomplish this. As an example WMC would still be receiving x when you typed y... it would be transparent to WMC.
Reply
Reply
post #324 of 537
3/29/13 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I think you could use any keyboard re-mapping (software or registry hack) to accomplish this. As an example WMC would still be receiving x when you typed y... it would be transparent to WMC.
I hadn't thought of that, thanks!
Reply
Reply
post #325 of 537
4/1/13 at 11:37am
WMC's program guide may not have season & episode numbers, but it does include the show's original air date, and you can sort by it. That's useful if you're recording a series where you want to watch the episodes in order (such as a soap or saga) but the broadcaster insists on airing certain episodes out of sequence.
Reply
Reply
post #326 of 537
4/1/13 at 2:24pm
It's not SxxEyy, and doesn't contain the same data, net-net. I switched to TiVo, and WOW is the experience so much better overall. There are a few downsides to TiVo, but overall, a MUCH better experience than MCE.
Reply
Reply
post #327 of 537
4/1/13 at 3:04pm
It's good enough for my purpose: watching the shows of a series in order.

You've already made your position abundantly clear numerous times. I see no reason for you to continue to repeat it ad nauseum. At this point you are no longer contributing constructively to this discussion and have merely become an annoyance.
Reply
Reply
post #328 of 537
4/1/13 at 3:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

There are a few downsides to TiVo, but overall, a MUCH better experience than MCE.

Having used TiVo for over a decade I'd say I speak from experience. There are zero features that come even remotely close to offsetting 4-tuners with WMC... and no I'm not paying for two TiVos or their related subscriptions and or lifetime fees. On that feature alone (beng OTA only) TiVo is virtually worthless (to me). Tonight I have 4 concurrent recordings scheduled that I'll watch throughout the week. The experience is viewing TV and if it doesn't gets recorded it's beyond a few TiVo's downsides... it's virtually worthless.
Reply
Reply
post #329 of 537
4/1/13 at 5:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Having used TiVo for over a decade I'd say I speak from experience. There are zero features that come even remotely close to offsetting 4-tuners with WMC... and no I'm not paying for two TiVos or their related subscriptions and or lifetime fees. On that feature alone (beng OTA only) TiVo is virtually worthless (to me). Tonight I have 4 concurrent recordings scheduled that I'll watch throughout the week. The experience is viewing TV and if it doesn't gets recorded it's beyond a few TiVo's downsides... it's virtually worthless.

I have a 4-tuner TiVo and it works a lot better than my 4-tuner Ceton setup with MCE. True, there's no 4-tuner for OTA (yet), but then again, when you only have 5 channels, 4 tuners is a bit of overkill. Also, with OTA, there is no TiVo Mini, so you'd have to have multiple boxes for multiple TVs anyways.
Reply
Reply
post #330 of 537
4/1/13 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggAW View Post

I have a 4-tuner TiVo and it works a lot better than my 4-tuner Ceton setup with MCE. True, there's no 4-tuner for OTA (yet), but then again, when you only have 5 channels, 4 tuners is a bit of overkill. Also, with OTA, there is no TiVo Mini, so you'd have to have multiple boxes for multiple TVs anyways.

Speak for yourself, that's it if you are not speaking for yourself. I get about 50 OTA channels with about 20 that are "usefull". I have two OTA premieres and most of the time 3 tuners are recording at the same time, with 4 tuners going off a few times every week.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere