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Windows Media Center vs TiVo Premiere - Page 20

post #571 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

If I get into this in a big way I'll definitely try Video Redo out. Right now I'm only doing a couple of shows a week, so my cumbersome but free method is fine.
Understood. I already owned VRD, so it was a no-brainer for me. I love how I can just drag-and-drop a group of WTV files into the watched folder and let it do all the commercial detection before I go in and tweak each one (normally some tweaking required) to the way I like and it puts out the desired video and corresponding metadata text file in the output folder.
Quote:
I agree; that's why I usually watch live TV with a DTVPal. If I decide to record I just hit the Record button, choose "Record entire event," and the buffer is captured. WMC is much better, though, for unattended recordings that I want to watch later, edit, burn to DVDs, etc.

The TiVo's the only DVR solution I know of that buffers multiple channels at once, though. Even with the DTVPal, if I flip channels I lose the buffer.
I didn't know about DTVPal - I thought it was just a Dish Network thingy. Can it to High Definition OTA? CableCARD?

Our Comcast DVRs can maintain buffers on two channels at once by pausing one before switching to the other, but it's far from reliable like the TiVo is. A wrong button push and the buffer on the 'other' channel is zeroed out to 'live'.
post #572 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

The poster claimed he had version 1.008R3 of the DTB add-in running on Win 8.


I don't remember which app gave me an issue. It refused to install in Windows 8 stating it wasn't a supported OS. I simply tried to duplicate the steps I linked to in the first post. I knew I needed a newer version of his app and he wanted a donation or evidence of your support to the community. I used this thread and he bought it. smile.gif I'd be willing to throw the stuff on this PC (the one with 8.1) but I think I'll pass on my HTPC. That is unless I got all of the bugs worked out.

 

I need a version that will process on the fly as I often watch commercial delayed and if I have to wait until the show is over forget it...

post #573 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by tluxon View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

I agree; that's why I usually watch live TV with a DTVPal. If I decide to record I just hit the Record button, choose "Record entire event," and the buffer is captured. WMC is much better, though, for unattended recordings that I want to watch later, edit, burn to DVDs, etc.

The TiVo's the only DVR solution I know of that buffers multiple channels at once, though. Even with the DTVPal, if I flip channels I lose the buffer.
I didn't know about DTVPal - I thought it was just a Dish Network thingy. Can it to High Definition OTA? CableCARD?

Our Comcast DVRs can maintain buffers on two channels at once by pausing one before switching to the other, but it's far from reliable like the TiVo is. A wrong button push and the buffer on the 'other' channel is zeroed out to 'live'.

The DTVPal was an OTA-only DVR that Dish sold a few years ago. Weird that a satellite TV company would sell a DVR for terrestrial TV, but they did. They gave up on it after a couple of years, but then Channel Master sold it for another year or two (under the model CM-7000Pal). No longer sold by either Dish or CM, but you can still find them on eBay.

It was quite nice for its day. It records and plays back both SD and HD up to 1080i. It sported a 7-day grid-style program guide via TVGoS until that service went defunct earlier this year. It still fills out its program guide from stations' PSIP data, so if a station broadcasts 7 days of guide data (very rare), it'll show it, and unlike TiVo it's completely free (no subscription required).

Its biggest drawbacks are:
  • Orphan product (there'll be no new firmware updates to fix bugs or add new features like an Internet-based guide)
  • OTA only; no cable/satellite/Internet TV
  • Recordings are strictly timer-based (no season pass) although you can schedule them directly from the guide
  • Closed, proprietary file system; unlike TiVo or WMC you can't transfer your recordings to another device
  • Comes with a 250 GB HDD, upgradeable to 1 TB max
But for time-shifting live TV or record/watch/delete use, it's still pretty good.
post #574 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post

The poster claimed he had version 1.008R3 of the DTB add-in running on Win 8.

I don't remember which app gave me an issue. It refused to install in Windows 8 stating it wasn't a supported OS. I simply tried to duplicate the steps I linked to in the first post. I knew I needed a newer version of his app and he wanted a donation or evidence of your support to the community. I used this thread and he bought it. smile.gif
 I'd be willing to throw the stuff on this PC (the one with 8.1) but I think I'll pass on my HTPC. That is unless I got all of the bugs worked out.

I need a version that will process on the fly as I often watch commercial delayed and if I have to wait until the show is over forget it...

It was probably the add-in. Versions 1.000 through 1.007 definitely won't work, and I think it took him a few tries to get 1.008 right (hence the R3). Hopefully Andy will get 8.1 figured out soon so you can try it out. I'll keep an eye on his blog and post back if he comes up with a solution. No sense wasting time on it until then.

The installation procedures haven't changed from the article you linked to, as far as I could tell. The only difference is the download links. Both DTB and the add-in are at Andy's site at babgvant.com (weird domain name but that's what he picked). DTB includes Comskip and will also download Show Analyzer (from its own Web site) for you during the installation if you check the appropriate box.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you have to wait until the show is over to watch with commercial skip. On-the-fly skipping would require working with WMC's time-shifting files instead of its .WTV recordings, otherwise you run into the WMC bug where if you start to watch a recording before it's done, it stops wherever it was at when you started watching. Also the add-in reads an XML file, and I expect there'd be parsing problems reading it before it was complete. But at least recordings are generally ready to watch the instant they're done.
post #575 of 727
Thread Starter 

Well I actually got Live TV (and recordings) working in XBMC. Look out WMC. smile.gif

 

 

 

Actually, I think the famous saying covers it nicely...

 

 

XBMC, I served with WMC. I knew WMC. WMC was a friend of mine. XBMC, you're no WMC.

post #576 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHBrandt View Post


Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure you have to wait until the show is over to watch with commercial skip. On-the-fly skipping would require working with WMC's time-shifting files instead of its .WTV recordings, otherwise you run into the WMC bug where if you start to watch a recording before it's done, it stops wherever it was at when you started watching. Also the add-in reads an XML file, and I expect there'd be parsing problems reading it before it was complete. But at least recordings are generally ready to watch the instant they're done.

 

Actually, when I used it I set the default to 0 so it processed the file the moment it began recording and it would at least skip commercials up to the point recorded when I started viewing. The rest the of show I could keep watching no problem. If I remember correctly I had to manually skip commercials at that point.


Edited by Charles R - 6/28/13 at 10:30pm
post #577 of 727
Thread Starter 

Anyone using a iSCSI drive for WMC recordings? I'm testing one with Windows 8.1 and I'm wondering how reliable they are... if it can't handle four recordings and playback I'll pass. If I switch to this new PC (SSD) I would need the storage space. My NAS is rather low-end but I'm hoping it can keep up.

 

If anyone is looking for a low-end NAS...

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/864542-REG/Iomega_35887_StorCenter_ix2_dl_2_Bay.html - diskless for $75 (ends today)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822186365 - 2TB (does NOT support iSCSI) for $79

 

I have used both with pretty good luck. Both models use screws so drive removal/replacement is a piece of cake.


Edited by Charles R - 6/30/13 at 8:09am
post #578 of 727
Thread Starter 

I have been testing my iSCSI drive (NAS) with my new PC build. Today, I scheduled four recordings at once and played back a recording and the system just purred. That would be a total of 9 HD streams... four coming from the tuners to the PC, four going from the PC to the NAS and one coming from the NAS to the PC. Windows reported the iSCSI drive R was roughly at 10% load which sounds way too low to me. The network itself was around 10% as well and the CPU less than 15%. My take is I'm sold until it throws up the first recording! 

 

With 8.1 I have noticed one weird thing. On a regular basis inside of WMC I lose the left and right mouse keys. The rest of the wireless keyboard works and those keys work fine the moment I leave WMC. I somewhat remember a similar issue so I'm not 100% sure it's an 8.1 issue... I'll see. The Harmony remote works 100% of the time so it's good to go.

 

If anyone is interested in iSCSI the link above and Fry's has the diskless two bay Iomega for $69 or less (right now). That's a heck of a price and you can drop your own drives in it... My new PC has a SSD and since I used LightDims on it I can't see or hear it.

post #579 of 727
[quote name="Charles R" url="/t/1422535/Today, I saw you can download Windows 8.1 Preview (currently doing such as I type). So that removed the OS question regarding what I should use. Hopefully, like my Mac Mini they will offer an upgrade from Preview to release (at the great price). If not, it's no biggie as I can simply install whatever down the road. All my data I care about resides on a NAS.[/quote]

Read an article on Windows Secrets, that stated MS was making it difficult to install the final release version, if you already installed the pre-release update. Warning on MS DL page. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something but you might want to check on that before you get too far into your build. Seems odd that they would do that, but hey....it's Microsoft. biggrin.gif

Other than that, looks like a cool little HTPC.
Edited by ccrider2 - 7/8/13 at 1:29pm
post #580 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccrider2 View Post

Read an article on Windows Secrets, that stated MS was making it difficult to install the final release version, if you already installed the pre-release update. Warning on MS DL page.

 

I plan on doing a fresh install by the middle of January (when 8.1 expires) if not sooner. This way I get to test the build (running great!) and delay the OS decision for six months - I don't have a license for the new PC and perhaps OpenELEC or something else might become viable. Right now I'm using it as my HTPC and the old HTPC became my desktop.

 

My take from Microsoft's FAQ...

 

  • With 8.1 Preview you will be able to upgrade to the final release when it's available whether you upgraded or installed from ISO (USB thumb drive in my case).
  • You can't uninstall 8.1 Preview without doing a PC refresh (vendor driven) or installing 7/8 from scratch.

 

In my case I'm guessing I could license this PC by simply entering a 8/8.1 product key. On my existing licensed PC it will simply upgrade to the release version all by itself. However I could be off base...


Edited by Charles R - 7/8/13 at 3:57pm
post #581 of 727
Thread Starter 

Well my iSCSI testing didn't go so well... bottom line I ended up punting by swapping the SSD for a 1TB 2.5" drive ($69). Initially, when I set up the iSCSI drive I had an issue where the PC lost access to it and I had to delete it at the NAS and recreate it. After that is was working great for a week or so.

The other day I needed to swap switches in my electronic closet and thought nothing of yanking it out and replacing it with the new one. It has 8-ports including my NAS and this PC. Apparently the PC didn't like being disconnected (no recordings at the time) from the NAS as afterwards no matter what I did it wouldn't properly use the drive. Best I got was viewing its content in Explorer. Almost as worse was the way Windows 8.1 (in this case) handled the issue. It made booting up and restarting take forever (attempting to connect/reconnect I'm guessing). Even the required service would start than stop within a few seconds. Since I couldn't get the service started I had zero hope of resolving the issue. 

 

Eventually I did a Windows Refresh and the PC was back to normal with the service working. I can't remember whether I tried to access the iSCSI drive afterwards or not... which is a biggie as in would I have lost the drive's content. But at this point I didn't care. Being a DVR even with my mistake of not closing the connection I didn't want to expose myself to a similar issue going forward. I could see losing the drive until everything was rebooted worse case the NAS and PC... but being stuck in limbo with Windows seeing the drive and not being able to access it or even having no means of graceful recovery forget it...

 

I did quite a bit of googling to see if there were any ways of getting the service started and or resolved without any luck. If anyone has any info I'd appreciate it for general knowledge. I'm surprised Windows handled it so poorly. Even if the iSCSI drive is completely corrupt it should be able to carry on per se.

 

The new drive is fairly slow but uses a whopping .6 Watts at idle and 2.2 under load. And removing it from its external case wasn't pretty. smile.gif It surely won't be going back to Fry's. I saw a note in the HTPC forum stating you can't install Media Center on a fresh Windows 8.1 install and I can ensure you you can... I have now done it a few times!

 

Side note: I decided to use the SSD in my desktop PC and Samsung's migration software worked great. It took about five minutes to clone the existing hard drive to the SSD. After disconnecting the old drive it booted like a champ and has been working fine.

post #582 of 727
Thread Starter 
OK... squarely on topic for once... anyone hear whether the new Xbox will support WMC? I'm guessing in my case based on the price it doesn't matter although it looks like I'll need an extender before long. I have HD video/audio covered with the WD TV Play so it only needs to support WMC and I'm Windows 8 and not a fan of the Echo..

Anyone using the new 360 E model?.. as quiet as the S, more so or any other input?
post #583 of 727
Don't think it's been announced whether the Xbone has WMC or not. My guess would be no given that it's a new architecture and the extender code would have to be ported over. Not that it matters at this point given the $500 retail price.
post #584 of 727

Here's an interesting article on that subject, with a "hopeful" prognosis. You might want to read the end first?

post #585 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Here's an interesting article on that subject, with a "hopeful" prognosis. You might want to read the end first?

I have read the FAQ before and tend to see it as a wishlist... not happening anytime soon and even more so not necessarily related to MC.
Edited by Charles R - 7/12/13 at 1:34pm
post #586 of 727
That linked blog has nothing to do with WMC on Xbone (except wishful thinking) and everything to do about the crappy HDMI passthrough/control interface. Again, we know nothing (that I've seen) about WMC on Xbone at this point.
post #587 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

Don't think it's been announced whether the Xbone has WMC or not. My guess would be no given that it's a new architecture and the extender code would have to be ported over. Not that it matters at this point given the $500 retail price.

I agree. At $500 it's strictly a game machine (or major entertainment hub outside of WMC) at this point. Makes my decision rather easy as far as purchasing an Xbox 360 S/E for $150 or so. Not that WMC needed any more nails in its coffin but this is surely several. Although I spent a decent amount of time with XBMC's TV Addon(s) and I'm not ready to bail yet. Not a lot of hope for SilconDust's DLNA DVR abilities short term either so WMC seems here to stay... don't kill the guide! Of which since 8.1 didn't kill WMC hopefully nothing new on that front.
post #588 of 727
I do wonder what SiliconDust has cooking with the DLNA capabilities, because right now all the clients pretty well suck and nobody has wanted to implement the DVR pieces. I've got to think they've been trying to get various partners onboard with it or maybe they're going to roll their own stuff.
post #589 of 727
Is there still nothing on the horizon to replace WMC for the cable card tuners.
post #590 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Is there still nothing on the horizon to replace WMC for the cable card tuners.

Here's a thread about MediaPortal adding CC support. Doesn't help for DRM'd content, but at least there is someone adding support for those of us using CC tuners.
post #591 of 727
Without support for DRM'd content it would be a rather incomplete solution to be used as the primary DVR.
post #592 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Is there still nothing on the horizon to replace WMC for the cable card tuners.

Sure there is. It's called TiVo. smile.gif Realistically, that ship has sailed. I'd like to see Elgato's eyetv ported to Windows, Linux or whatnot. Heck, if they had good client support I'd even go with their OS X. In the past I have played around with it a reasonable amount and it appears rather robust. I ended up re-installing Windows over my working XBMC's Live TV installation but I wasn't impressed. The interface isn't much to write home about and I didn't really get to test the back-end at all.

Perhaps, it will take Microsoft killing off the free guide data before anyone (commercial or open source groups) get serious about finding an equivalent replacement. Even with Windows 8 pricing WMC is still a steal (in my eyes). From what I saw Boxee Box just drop their DVRing as they were purchased and simple.TV just got another round of funding... of which they dearly need to make their product usable. smile.gif

Perhaps Intel's TV service OnCue will come (and go?) before we see any DVR migration?
post #593 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Without support for DRM'd content it would be a rather incomplete solution to be used as the primary DVR.

I think you left out the for some.
post #594 of 727
For MANY people using cable, DRM is an issue. OTA users are a small minority of an already small niche.

A DVR solution that doesn't incorporate DRM is incomplete unless it specifically is meant for OTA use only.
post #595 of 727
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post

OTA users are a small minority of an already small niche.

OK... what percentage are they?
post #596 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

Without support for DRM'd content it would be a rather incomplete solution to be used as the primary DVR.

It would work fine for me as I'm on FiOS and don't subscribe to any premium channels. Something to keep an eye on, anyway.
post #597 of 727
When you say premium channels are you referring to the movie channels like HBO/Showtime channels? Because folks who watch Bravo, Food Network, Cartoon Network, Disney, A&E, etc., need cable card support. How about the news and sports channels?
post #598 of 727
DRM content varies significantly from one cable company to the next. My understanding is Time-Warner Cable is one of the worst - they encrypt everything except the local OTA channels, and DRM everything they encrypt, so CC support w/o DRM is worthless to their customers. Other cable companies may encrypt everything (Comcast) but only DRM the premium channels, so for their customers, CC support is at least somewhat useful even w/o DRM. The only "right" answer is YMMV
post #599 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

When you say premium channels are you referring to the movie channels like HBO/Showtime channels? Because folks who watch Bravo, Food Network, Cartoon Network, Disney, A&E, etc., need cable card support. How about the news and sports channels?

Cablecard decryption has nothing to do with whether a channel has copy protected content, you need to do some more reading about CCI. In this case both FIOS and Comcast only copy protect the movie channels, but a card is needed to decrypt all channels in most areas.

Unprotected channels can be decrypted and sent in the clear to any device or DVR, but protected channels can only be sent to devices with authorized DRM certified by CableLabs.
Edited by slowbiscuit - 7/17/13 at 5:03am
post #600 of 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyad View Post

When you say premium channels are you referring to the movie channels like HBO/Showtime channels?

yes
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