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Jaws (Blu-ray) Official AVSForum Review - Page 3

post #61 of 139
8/3/12 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

I never said the Blu-ray of Jaws isn't faithful to the source material. I know about filters and different film stock. You obviously don't know what point I'm trying to make. I'm saying when it comes to judging it to other films of that decade, or older it doesn't impress on a technical level, faithful, or not. There should be separate scores in the video department, one part focused on how faithful the Blu-ray transfer is to the source material, and the second part how the Blu-ray looks on a technical level compared to other films.
If Ralph's scores in regards to Video and Audio are based purely on how faithful the Blu-ray is to the source material then I'm totally fine with it, but I'm sure he has reviewed other Blu-rays that were faithful to the source material and yet they didn't get perfect 100 scores. I'd personally rate the video quality somewhere in the 80's, but this is based off jpg/png files, which some of you insist is not replicating the quality of the Blu-ray, which I don't agree with. It looks pretty good for a 70's film, but not at all reference material.

With all due respect - are you nuts? Seriously. The only score that's relevant any time any place, anywhere is whether a transfer replicates what the film looked like - it doesn't matter what stock, what era - if the film looks like the film and renders that look accurately and perfectly then it gets high scores (if one MUST have scores at all). The highest score should always go to a perfectly rendered transfer. It IS reference material FOR THIS FILM. Every film is its own thing. You cannot compare Ben-Hur to Jaws. If you cannot see that, no one is ever going to be able to help you understand anything. What do other films have to do with Jaws? Why should a reviewer waste his or her time comparing it to other films of the era when it is NOT those films? Of what good is that? I don't know what Ralph has done in the past - I don't know his credentials, I don't know what he likes and doesn't like, I don't know anything about it. With JAWS, which is what's under discussion here, not some general movie comparison game, he's got it right.
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post #62 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

I never said the Blu-ray of Jaws isn't faithful to the source material. I know about filters and different film stock. You obviously don't know what point I'm trying to make. I'm saying when it comes to judging it to other films of that decade, or older it doesn't impress on a technical level, faithful, or not. There should be separate scores in the video department, one part focused on how faithful the Blu-ray transfer is to the source material, and the second part how the Blu-ray looks on a technical level compared to other films.
If Ralph's scores in regards to Video and Audio are based purely on how faithful the Blu-ray is to the source material then I'm totally fine with it, but I'm sure he has reviewed other Blu-rays that were faithful to the source material and yet they didn't get perfect 100 scores. I'd personally rate the video quality somewhere in the 80's, but this is based off jpg/png files, which some of you insist is not replicating the quality of the Blu-ray, which I don't agree with. It looks pretty good for a 70's film, but not at all reference material.

Amazing. You, who never have seen the Blu-Ray say you woud give it a rating in the '80's', yet the site that posted the screenshots you are using to make your rating, the guys who have actually seen the blu-ray, all agree that the video is reference quality.
(Nevermind that I still havent figured out how you rated the audio through a screenshot...)

Again, reviewers who have seen the actual movie:
'Spielberg's classic film arrives with a spectacular, reference-quality audio and video presentation that will more than satisfy movie lovers everywhere'
'This Blu-ray is simply stunning in all categories. A top notch restoration and transfer'
'This restoration is just downright amazing and earns itself a perfect “5 Star Rating” for overall video quality.'
'This earns itself a perfect “5 Star Rating” for overall audio quality.'
'By far this is the best the film has ever sounded.'

(The above quotes are from 4 different reviews of this Blu-Ray)

It seems like every review of this Blu-Ray, from the people who have actually viewed it, is exactly in line with Ralphs review here.
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post #63 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by haineshisway View Post

With all due respect - are you nuts? Seriously. The only score that's relevant any time any place, anywhere is whether a transfer replicates what the film looked like - it doesn't matter what stock, what era - if the film looks like the film and renders that look accurately and perfectly then it gets high scores (if one MUST have scores at all). The highest score should always go to a perfectly rendered transfer. It IS reference material FOR THIS FILM. Every film is its own thing. You cannot compare Ben-Hur to Jaws. If you cannot see that, no one is ever going to be able to help you understand anything. What do other films have to do with Jaws? Why should a reviewer waste his or her time comparing it to other films of the era when it is NOT those films? Of what good is that? I don't know what Ralph has done in the past - I don't know his credentials, I don't know what he likes and doesn't like, I don't know anything about it. With JAWS, which is what's under discussion here, not some general movie comparison game, he's got it right.

If people are just judging the film on it's own then fine, but this isn't in the same league in regards to impressive video quality like other Blu-rays.
Edited by emgesp - 8/3/12 at 7:38pm
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post #64 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

(Nevermind that I still havent figured out how you rated the audio through a screenshot...)

I'd like to learn that trick. smile.gif
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post #65 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Amazing. You, who never have seen the Blu-Ray say you woud give it a rating in the '80's', yet the site that posted the screenshots you are using to make your rating, the guys who have actually seen the blu-ray, all agree that the video is reference quality.
(Nevermind that I still havent figured out how you rated the audio through a screenshot...)
Again, reviewers who have seen the actual movie:
'Spielberg's classic film arrives with a spectacular, reference-quality audio and video presentation that will more than satisfy movie lovers everywhere'
'This Blu-ray is simply stunning in all categories. A top notch restoration and transfer'
'This restoration is just downright amazing and earns itself a perfect “5 Star Rating” for overall video quality.'
'This earns itself a perfect “5 Star Rating” for overall audio quality.'
'By far this is the best the film has ever sounded.'
(The above quotes are from 4 different reviews of this Blu-Ray)
It seems like every review of this Blu-Ray, from the people who have actually viewed it, is exactly in line with Ralphs review here.

What is your definition of reference material? My definition of reference material is a Blu-ray that is not only faithful to the source, but is also impressive visually on a purely technical level. The Sound of Music is one example I can think of.

Do you guys really think Jaws is going to be ranked tier 0 (Reference Quality) in the Blu-ray PQ thread? You guys have to be kidding me. It's Silver tier at best.
Edited by emgesp - 8/3/12 at 7:51pm
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post #66 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:26pm
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I'd like to learn that trick. smile.gif

I never said anything about the audio. I'm sure the audio was restored very well, but I highly doubt it's demo material.
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post #67 of 139
8/3/12 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

I never said anything about the audio. I'm sure the audio was restored very well, but I highly doubt it's demo material.

Yes you did. More than once:

Originally Posted by emgesp
"The movie is a classic, but your review for the PQ and AQ is ridiculous. Don't let your love for this film cloud your judgement when it comes to evaluating the film on a technical level. The film doesn't look, or sound amazing."
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post #68 of 139
8/3/12 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

What is your definition of reference material? My definition of reference material is a Blu-ray that is not only faithful to the source, but is also impressive visually on a purely technical level. The Sound of Music is one example I can think of.
Do you guys really think Jaws is going to be ranked tier 0 (Reference Quality) in the Blu-ray PQ thread? You guys have to be kidding me. It's Silver tier at best.

Emgesp: You've had your say, it's time to move on.
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post #69 of 139
8/3/12 at 8:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan4081 View Post

Yes you did. More than once:
Originally Posted by emgesp
"The movie is a classic, but your review for the PQ and AQ is ridiculous. Don't let your love for this film cloud your judgement when it comes to evaluating the film on a technical level. The film doesn't look, or sound amazing."

I was referring to the perfect 100 rating that I felt was way too generous.

rboster, I agree, we should move on. I've made my opinion clear and now it's time to let everyone else have a say. See you in the Lawrence of Arabia thread.
Edited by emgesp - 8/3/12 at 8:42pm
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post #70 of 139
8/4/12 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

The movie is a classic, but your review for the PQ and AQ is ridiculous. Don't let your love for this film cloud your judgement when it comes to evaluating the film on a technical level. The film doesn't look, or sound amazing. The studios did a decent job with the lousy 70's film stock source material they had to work with.

EVERYONE has a right to their own opinion. But calling Ralph ridculous will get you no respect here on this forum. He is spot on in his reviews. And where may I ask did you see a Blu Ray copy BEFORE it's released to the public? Oh, wait, you work for a retailer and took one from the warehouse....

Jeff
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post #71 of 139
8/4/12 at 7:52am
My all time favorite movie! I have to hurry and get these subs and speakers built!
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post #72 of 139
8/4/12 at 8:19am
I might sound old but they just don't make movies like this anymore. Just a really enjoyable adventure film that is fun scary. I begged my parents to take me to see it when I was 7 years old because I was fascinated with sharks and the experience in the theater was one of my best childhood memories. Just waiting in line for 2 hours in anticipation was fun. It was a packed theater and just a complete blast and I can still remember the screams when that head popped out of the bottom of the boat. I've never had that fun a theater experience since that movie even though I was only 7. If I had a chance to relive certain childhood memories this would definately be high on the list and it's the one movie I would love to see in the theater for the 1st time again.

Also a little piece of bizarre trivia to wrap your head around. Speilberg seriously considered remaking this movie himself in the mid 90's after the success of the Jurassic Park special effects because he thought the shark looked too fake in the original and the technology was now available to him to give it the CGI treatment along with some animatronics for close ups. Apparently Tom Cruise was to be cast as Brody and Liam Neeson as Quint. Thankfully saner heads prevailed and it never got past the discussion stage.
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post #73 of 139
8/4/12 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite Dan View Post

I might sound old but they just don't make movies like this anymore. Just a really enjoyable adventure film that is fun scary. I begged my parents to take me to see it when I was 7 years old because I was fascinated with sharks and the experience in the theater was one of my best childhood memories. Just waiting in line for 2 hours in anticipation was fun. It was a packed theater and just a complete blast and I can still remember the screams when that head popped out of the bottom of the boat. I've never had that fun a theater experience since that movie even though I was only 7. If I had a chance to relive certain childhood memories this would definately be high on the list and it's the one movie I would love to see in the theater for the 1st time again.
Also a little piece of bizarre trivia to wrap your head around. Speilberg seriously considered remaking this movie himself in the mid 90's after the success of the Jurassic Park special effects because he thought the shark looked too fake in the original and the technology was now available to him to give it the CGI treatment along with some animatronics for close ups. Apparently Tom Cruise was to be cast as Brody and Liam Neeson as Quint. Thankfully saner heads prevailed and it never got past the discussion stage.


You comment makes me wish I could back in time and see Jaws at the theatre when it first came out.

i was watching an old episode of Columbo a few weeks ago. He was at Universal studios working on a case. There was a scene with Bruce the shark coming out of the water. Fun stuff.
Edited by Jeffer65 - 8/4/12 at 5:08pm
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post #74 of 139
8/5/12 at 6:56am
Fantastic Ralf! Really happy I pre-ordered it from Amazon!!
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post #75 of 139
8/5/12 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

If people are just judging the film on it's own then fine, but this isn't in the same league in regards to impressive video quality like other Blu-rays.


You have a point when you state it is not in the same league as say Pixar films but with that logic then no film should rate a perfect grade unless it is a direct digital transfer.

You have to take into account that JAWS is an older film and how well did the transfer come out for that older film. Look at films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur. Do they look as good as modern films? Is it fair to compare? That is a question you have to ask yourself.

Personally I find films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur to be much more impressive because of the age. When the studio takes an old film and makes it look brand new, well that gets a perfect perfect score in my book.

But I will agree that you can't just hand out perfect score because it's the best the film has ever looked or could look. Take a film like The Evil Dead. On Blu it looks the best it ever has. But that film is never going to look beautiful. I don't think it would ever get a perfect score from me.

I think it works like this. There is refrence material for new films that show what Blu ray can do and there is refrence material for old films that show what blu ray can do. Both can get perfect scores IMO.
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post #76 of 139
8/5/12 at 10:40am
The review and screen shots are up on DVD Beaver. The screen shots look awesome. I didn't realize there was a building in the background in the shot looking through the shark jaws in Quints room!

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare6/jaws.htm

Jeff
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post #77 of 139
8/5/12 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawsfan View Post

You have a point when you state it is not in the same league as say Pixar films but with that logic then no film should rate a perfect grade unless it is a direct digital transfer.
You have to take into account that JAWS is an older film and how well did the transfer come out for that older film. Look at films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur. Do they look as good as modern films? Is it fair to compare? That is a question you have to ask yourself.
Personally I find films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur to be much more impressive because of the age. When the studio takes an old film and makes it look brand new, well that gets a perfect perfect score in my book.
But I will agree that you can't just hand out perfect score because it's the best the film has ever looked or could look. Take a film like The Evil Dead. On Blu it looks the best it ever has. But that film is never going to look beautiful. I don't think it would ever get a perfect score from me.
I think it works like this. There is refrence material for new films that show what Blu ray can do and there is refrence material for old films that show what blu ray can do. Both can get perfect scores IMO.
To complicate the issue even more, what if the filmmakers wanted the movie to have a certain old-fashioned, aged and worn out look? For the "reference discs must look sharpest and sound best" camp, is it possible to give a 100% rating to a Blu-ray of, say, Woody Allen's Zelig? Or is it impossible to give a 100% rating to a movie like Zelig since the better the transfer, the more authentically old-fashioned, aged and worn out the picture quality must necessarily look?

I'm generally in the "most fidelity to the original product is best" camp, which I took to be Ralph's premise for this Jaws review. In fact, if this Blu-ray of Jaws looks and sounds like the kind of eye and ear candy I generally associate with a Pixar or Michael Bay movie, I'd consider that a fail because they've obviously juiced up something that can only provide a distraction from the far more important heart of the matter in Jaws.
Edited by hitchfan - 8/5/12 at 7:21pm
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post #78 of 139
8/5/12 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jawsfan View Post

You have a point when you state it is not in the same league as say Pixar films but with that logic then no film should rate a perfect grade unless it is a direct digital transfer.
You have to take into account that JAWS is an older film and how well did the transfer come out for that older film. Look at films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur. Do they look as good as modern films? Is it fair to compare? That is a question you have to ask yourself.
Personally I find films like Blade Runner and Ben Hur to be much more impressive because of the age. When the studio takes an old film and makes it look brand new, well that gets a perfect perfect score in my book.
But I will agree that you can't just hand out perfect score because it's the best the film has ever looked or could look. Take a film like The Evil Dead. On Blu it looks the best it ever has. But that film is never going to look beautiful. I don't think it would ever get a perfect score from me.
I think it works like this. There is refrence material for new films that show what Blu ray can do and there is refrence material for old films that show what blu ray can do. Both can get perfect scores IMO.

I agree with most of what you said, but in no way do I think a film needs to look like a Pixar flick to receive a perfect video score.
Edited by emgesp - 8/5/12 at 10:50pm
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post #79 of 139
8/6/12 at 6:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by emgesp View Post

The movie is a classic, but your review for the PQ and AQ is ridiculous. Don't let your love for this film cloud your judgement when it comes to evaluating the film on a technical level. The film doesn't look, or sound amazing. The studios did a decent job with the lousy 70's film stock source material they had to work with.

I'm guessing I'll prolly be a "+1" to this in a week.

I'm sure it will look and sound fantastic, but not a perfect a score, regardless of the perspective you want to take.

Very anxious for the release.

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/6/12 at 7:04am
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post #80 of 139
8/6/12 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Booth View Post

In other words, you want 'Jaws' to look like, say, 'Toy Story 3' before it can earn a score of 100?
Dude, you must go through life in a constant state of disappointment!
Mark

Ummmmmm, no. That's not what he's saying at all. It's unfortunate that it seems when someone has an opposing viewpoint/opinion in these parts (ok, even a somewhat firm one) they basically get chastised and run off because it's the wrong opinion or people get goofy sensitive about how it's expressed, really, essentially because they don't like the opinion, not because it's so offensively expressed.

Again, quite unfortunate. I understand fully what he's conveying but I'll reserve judgment until I see the disc, of course.

Respectfully,

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 8/6/12 at 7:21am
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post #81 of 139
8/6/12 at 8:57am
So, anyway......I really loved this movie from start to finish and can't wait to see it on BD. It's some of acting and cinematography's best! The question is, do I let my kids watch it before their trip to Florida next month?! I'd really hate to deprive them of some of the same...experiences (fear or otherwise) that I had as a kid! biggrin.gif
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post #82 of 139
8/6/12 at 9:23am
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Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

So, anyway......I really loved this movie from start to finish and can't wait to see it on BD. It's some of acting and cinematography's best! The question is, do I let my kids watch it before their trip to Florida next month?! I'd really hate to deprive them of some of the same...experiences (fear or otherwise) that I had as a kid! biggrin.gif

Haha, I've had the same debate as well with regards to letting my kids see Jaws. I saw it when I was young as well, but my kids are just finally getting into swimming... smile.gif
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post #83 of 139
8/6/12 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

I'll reserve judgment until I see the disc, of course.
Respectfully,
James

If the prev poster would do the same ,no one would have an issue with his or her judgment /opinion .

Mark
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post #84 of 139
8/6/12 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Ummmmmm, no. That's not what he's saying at all. It's unfortunate that it seems when someone has an opposing viewpoint/opinion in these parts (ok, even a somewhat firm one) they basically get chastised and run off because it's the wrong opinion or people get goofy sensitive about how it's expressed, really, essentially because they don't like the opinion, not because it's so offensively expressed.
Again, quite unfortunate. I understand fully what he's conveying but I'll reserve judgment until I see the disc, of course.
Respectfully,
James

Greetings,

James, this has been covered. I have pm'd Matt (the original poster) and we have discussed this privately and he is clear that he is free to post in this forum anytime (he hasn't been run off). Once you have seen it feel free to post back. wink.gif

In the meantime let's move on.

Regards,
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post #85 of 139
8/7/12 at 6:26am
^ Ok, I wasn't aiming the stick at you, Ralph, but more at the folks who tend to "mob up" against someone.

I appreciate your reviews and I'm very much looking forward to this release. I'm sure we will ALL agree the film AND what they've done with it is fantastic.


James
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post #86 of 139
8/7/12 at 6:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ Ok, I wasn't aiming the stick at you, Ralph, but more at the folks who tend to "mob up" against someone.
I appreciate your reviews and I'm very much looking forward to this release. I'm sure we will ALL agree the film AND what they've done with it is fantastic.
James

Greetings,

I knew that James. Thanks very much for understanding and for the support. smile.gif

Regards,
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post #87 of 139
8/7/12 at 7:35am
Now that we've all hugged it out, LAST ONE IN THE OCEAN IS A ROTTEN BD TRANSFER!
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post #88 of 139
8/7/12 at 8:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Closet Geek View Post

Now that we've all hugged it out, LAST ONE IN THE OCEAN IS A ROTTEN BD TRANSFER!

Greetings,

biggrin.gif

Regards,
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post #89 of 139
8/7/12 at 8:34am
"we're gonna get a bigger boat, right?!"


James
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post #90 of 139
8/7/12 at 8:42am
Just to offer an unsolicited piece of nostalgia, I recall being at the now defunct Venture store with my mom when I was about nine years old asking her to buy the Jaws soundtrack for me. ON LP!!! eek.gif

What kind of kid asks his mom to buy the symphonic score of a movie staring a shark that scared the daylights out of most of the country AND listened to it virtually every night? Was I demented or are we bringing our kids up soft these days? biggrin.gif
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