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Sony, Panasonic and Sharp TV divisions melting down in summer 2012 heat - Page 4

post #91 of 149
Why do they not want plasma? They don't like their black levels actually black?
post #92 of 149
Once you go black, you never go back.
post #93 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeBiker View Post

Once you go black, you never go back.

And yet the market for plasma HDTVs is dropping like a rock thrown off a cliff.
post #94 of 149
Size matters but what flat panel makers didn't realize people want smaller sizes. Plasma can't compete in that way and once people get accustom to the LCD look it's what they look for in larger panels.
post #95 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And yet the market for plasma HDTVs is dropping like a rock thrown off a cliff.

Plasma has hit rock bottom.
post #96 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Plasma has hit rock bottom.

No - it still has a ways to go before it hits rock bottom.
post #97 of 149
Thread Starter 
So Sharp has now gone to the well for what will likely be the final time:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-25/sharp-said-to-plan-cutting-10-000-jobs-selling-recurrent-energy

Within 2 years, the company will either be on its way back, sold for parts, or gone. Let's hope it's the first of those.
post #98 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

So Sharp has now gone to the well for what will likely be the final time:
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-25/sharp-said-to-plan-cutting-10-000-jobs-selling-recurrent-energy
Within 2 years, the company will either be on its way back, sold for parts, or gone. Let's hope it's the first of those.

Does Foxconn have their hands in all consumer electronics manufacturing?

I hope sharp goes under. While I like competition in the TV industry, if everyone is losing money, no one is going to invest in new technology. There needs to be a healthy mix of some competition and some profitability.
post #99 of 149
So if Sharp goes, industry profitability will return? I think you overestimate the effect their departure will have and having them vanish puts another hole in the coffin of pushing the envelope on PQ quality (make the best LCD you can and expect to go under!).
post #100 of 149
ScreenShot-2012-06-20-at-9_47_15-AM.png
post #101 of 149
Thanks, that revealing graphic was in the back of my mind. tongue.gif
post #102 of 149
ChartOfTheDay_602_Market_share_in_the_global_flat_panel_TV_market_n.jpg


Global market share of leading flat panel TV brands from 3rd quarter 2010 to 2nd quarter 2012

http://www.statista.com/statistics/180255/worldwide-market-shares-of-leading-flat-panel-tv-brands-by-quarter/
post #103 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

Does Foxconn have their hands in all consumer electronics manufacturing?
I hope sharp goes under. While I like competition in the TV industry, if everyone is losing money, no one is going to invest in new technology. There needs to be a healthy mix of some competition and some profitability.

Foxconn is into everything CE, yes. You don't hope Sharp goes under; Sharp does invest. Sharp going away is not going to improve investment or competition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

So if Sharp goes, industry profitability will return? I think you overestimate the effect their departure will have and having them vanish puts another hole in the coffin of pushing the envelope on PQ quality (make the best LCD you can and expect to go under!).

Right on Vinnie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

ScreenShot-2012-06-20-at-9_47_15-AM.png

Lee, where does that chart come from? Do you know if those year-over-year and q-over-q figures are for revenues? (I assume they are not units, but I'm not entirely sure).
post #104 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Lee, where does that chart come from? Do you know if those year-over-year and q-over-q figures are for revenues? (I assume they are not units, but I'm not entirely sure).

Source: NPD DisplaySearch

Figures are for revenue share - see large blue graph above for Q1 and Q2 2012
post #105 of 149
yeah we want sharp around to release a 2nd gen elite.

don't want the best current display manufacturer to bail like pio.
post #106 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wally View Post

yeah we want sharp around to release a 2nd gen elite.
don't want the best current display manufacturer to bail like pio.

2nd best you mean. Panasonic VT50 is the best current Display
post #107 of 149
post #108 of 149
Sharp does seem to be in a death spiral.
post #109 of 149
post #110 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimV View Post

An interesting development, if true:
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/11/07/did-apple-spend-2-billion-to-bail-out-sharp/

Not really. All it means is Sharp nearly went bankrupt even with $2 billion from Apple. That's even more terrifying than we've been led to believe.
post #111 of 149
Sharp is still looking for new sources of financing.
Quote:
Japanese electronics manufacturer Sharp Corp. is in talks with Dell Inc. and Intel Corp. for a possible $240 million capital injection in return for a stable supply of new display technology, The Wall Street Journal reports.

Sharp is also in discussions with Qualcomm Inc. for a smaller investment.

The capital alliance talks with Round Rock-based Dell haven't been reported before, the Journal reports.

An investment from Dell, Intel and Qualcomm may come in the form of equity or debt.
post #112 of 149
Thread Starter 
Yeah, it sounds like more than money they want to lock in customers going forward. They will trade the equity today for the guaranteed income tomorrow.
post #113 of 149
I think Panasonic TV's division is toast.

http://www.whathifi.com/news/japan-panasonics-loss-making-tv-division-to-cut-production-of-lcd-and-plasma-panels

"The company, whose TV division has lost money for the last four years and isn't expected to turn a profit in 2012-13"

Then in November the Head of Panasonic said any division not profitable will get the axe mid 2013.

Although they have closed a lot of plants, I wonder if it will be enough?
post #114 of 149
Thread Starter 
Just for what it's worth, the article you quoted has this: "But Panasonic isn't getting out of the TV business".

And for what it's worth, a lot of non-wacko economists think Abe's plan for Japan -- if he's allowed to carry it out -- is going to make Japanese exports much more competitive in the short and medium run via a weaker yen as well as help Japan's economy. If they prove correct, it has second-order implications for the U.S. too. One such take (easier to read than most for non-economists) is here: http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/11/japan_election_shinzo_abe_s_plan_to_save_the_japanese_economy.html

Anyway, Panasonic's TV business is in trouble. And if plasma gets cut to 2.5 million in 2013 as seems all-but certain, it's likely gone by 2015 the latest...

But hold off on the epitaphs....
post #115 of 149
post #116 of 149
Thread Starter 
Yep, Mike, but the dollar amount was insignificant. I think Sharp's plan is to get a few companies that are committed strategically to its success.

As an aside, one "fact" about IGZO is that it was supposed to cheaper than existing backplanes and make LCD more competitive but more importantly help scale OLED. As we sit on the cusp of 2013, IGZO is in use barely at all by Sharp, which is basically going hat in hand trying to convince key players in mobile they need to save it. (And IGZO is currently in use nowhere else I'm aware of.)
post #117 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankur View Post

Indian CRT scene is also steadily declining. People prefer to buy a 22" LCD over the CRT. It may be available in the villages, but the sales there will be hardly anything.

I have lived in Brazil for 15 months. When I first moved here from the US the majority of TV's on display were small CRT's. It was actually quite amusing at the time. In 15 months I rarely see a CRT and the shelves are filled with Samsung LCD. It seems exclusivley Samsung. Of course it is impossible to import anything into Brazil and have it nake sense financially and I am walking distance to a very large Samsung plant so maybe thats the reason.
post #118 of 149
Sharp is teetering--How long can Panasonic last--Mitsubishi announces rear projection and Laser DLP are dead--and OLED can't make anything over 55 inches that doesn't cost trillions!

We continue the steady march to the New One World Order of the horror story that always sucks---LCD!!!

With Sharp out of business we'll have LCD that sucks at SMALLER sizes!!!

Do any of yall geniuses here know of any development that can save us from the SMALL Chinese LCD apocalypse?!!!
post #119 of 149
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbone61554 View Post

I have lived in Brazil for 15 months. When I first moved here from the US the majority of TV's on display were small CRT's. It was actually quite amusing at the time. In 15 months I rarely see a CRT and the shelves are filled with Samsung LCD. It seems exclusivley Samsung. Of course it is impossible to import anything into Brazil and have it nake sense financially and I am walking distance to a very large Samsung plant so maybe thats the reason.

I'm fairly sure the last of the CRTs are coming very soon. iSuppli has them dying off -- even in India -- around 2015. Ironically, that's also supposedly the end year for plasma. RIP phosphor-based displays.
post #120 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

Sharp is teetering--How long can Panasonic last--Mitsubishi announces rear projection and Laser DLP are dead--and OLED can't make anything over 55 inches that doesn't cost trillions!
We continue the steady march to the New One World Order of the horror story that always sucks---LCD!!!
With Sharp out of business we'll have LCD that sucks at SMALLER sizes!!!
Do any of yall geniuses here know of any development that can save us from the SMALL Chinese LCD apocalypse?!!!
It seems like the ladder of electronic technology is a rather obvious spiral from the most developed countries towards the most under developed countries. Country A leads the world in electronic development and production until it gets to the fat cat stage then country B borrows that technology and slightly enhances it leads the world because of lower labor rates. Then Country C does the same to country B which in turn is done in by country D. Considering that Country D is China, I wonder if there is even a country E. It's really just one big never ending economical soup.
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