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Please Bring back CRT TV's Into the Production line Again! - Page 6

post #151 of 250
...yes...and we have to mention also that Plasma and Led both have motion blur, a good crt is perfect interlaced or progressive; Better and more neutral gamut , stable gamma from the outbox, much better light for shadow detail, no posterization on warm scenes......is just a stupid comparison
post #152 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by ertoil View Post

...yes...and we have to mention also that Plasma and Led both have motion blur
Try the Viewpixx scientific display, or a LightBoost strobe backlight display. (60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost). Won't have as good colors and blacks as CRT, but at least these flat panels displays outperform some medium-persistence phosphor CRT's (e.g. Sony FW900) in terms of having less motion blur than some CRT's.

P.S. My projector was a NEC XG135 CRT though. smile.gif
post #153 of 250
Thread Starter 
I have just bought a 27" Sony Trinitron Curved 4:3 Aspect Ratio TV for twenty dollars. The picture quality is excellent. My Atari 2600, Nes, Snes and DVD Player works great on this TV. This TV is 13 years old. I still believe that CRT TV's will come back to the production line one day. biggrin.gif
post #154 of 250
I would like to add to this discussion by saying something that I have learned. I read in a book recently that on those old CRT-type TVs the pixels that they used, dot-type (using the so-called "delta" system) or using those stripes from the 1970s on, those pixels created some distortion of the color. That was something I didn't know. They thought that they could fix that there was some color distortion in the pixels-and other things also-by changing the dot system to the stripes. It is believed that the stripes didn't change that distortion problem. And I don't believe that LCD/LED or plasma TVs really have that problem. They also use their own pixels but they are different maybe. And that you could even have HDTV with those CRT TVs, and that problem would still happen even with HD, maybe that shouldn't be happening.

Those well-known problems that plasma and LCD/LED TVs can have with good black or correct motion have almost been overcome nowadays.

It seems to me that manufacturers have stopped making CRT TVs and they make LCD/LED, plasma, and others, is not simply because CRTs are heavy and you need 2 or 3 people to carry them. Maybe the manufacturers thought and decided that that is what people should have, plasma or LCD and some other new technologies, because they are good TVs. They decided that you don't need CRT.

Anyway, I would say that I own a good LED TV and I really like it.
post #155 of 250
I'll just leave it here

post #156 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by basil lambri View Post

I would like to add to this discussion by saying something that I have learned. I read in a book recently that on those old CRT-type TVs the pixels that they used, dot-type (using the so-called "delta" system) or using those stripes from the 1970s on, those pixels created some distortion of the color. That was something I didn't know. They thought that they could fix that there was some color distortion in the pixels-and other things also-by changing the dot system to the stripes. It is believed that the stripes didn't change that distortion problem.

You are referring to moire, although doing an errant job at describing it. Moire is a very simple effect that occurs when two patterns overlay across one another. A CRT has a grid that the electron gun fires through in an interlaced pattern, and certain things that are filmed may have similar, small patterns, like pinstripe clothing, hatching on jackets, shirts, etc. This is not a serious problem when it comes to television viewing, but it can make the pattern that you are attempting to appear to lose detail, lost in the interference. Trinitron CRTs actually DO help a great deal to solve this kind of interference. Because there are NO horizontal wires, they completely eliminate any possibility of vertical moire patterns. I don't think that moire was such a problem with CRT that Trinitron was invented in order to tackle it. Trinitron's strength from its debut was the brighter screen, indeed, with only vertical wires, it can allow for a much brighter image than the smaller slots of a shadow mask. That it eliminates vertical moire is an accidental plus.
Quote:
And I don't believe that LCD/LED or plasma TVs really have that problem. They also use their own pixels but they are different maybe. And that you could even have HDTV with those CRT TVs, and that problem would still happen even with HD, maybe that shouldn't be happening.

Moire can happen any time there are overlaying patterns, and it can even happen with HD broadcasts if done in 1080i. The chances of this are much reduced with a higher resolution, but apart from an odd looking, moving pattern on someone's sweater, this is not the biggest issue facing television broadcasts.
Quote:
Those well-known problems that plasma and LCD/LED TVs can have with good black or correct motion have almost been overcome nowadays.

See Elix's pics above.
Quote:
It seems to me that manufacturers have stopped making CRT TVs and they make LCD/LED, plasma, and others, is not simply because CRTs are heavy and you need 2 or 3 people to carry them. Maybe the manufacturers thought and decided that that is what people should have, plasma or LCD and some other new technologies, because they are good TVs. They decided that you don't need CRT.

They decided that it is cheaper to make a thing that only needs to weigh 30 pounds or less, as opposed to up to 300 pounds for the same screen size. And honestly, it is. With the same area to store your wares, you can simply fit more items of a smaller dimension. When transporting small or short distances, you can move more televisions with fewer people if the thing is smaller and lighter. You have decided that these televisions are good enough, with any of their faults, for these little conveniences. They decided that the conveniences trump any quality concerns, because those conveniences save them money. Any dollar they save is another dollar they have.
Quote:
Anyway, I would say that I own a good LED TV and I really like it.

See what I mean?
post #157 of 250
Yeah, check out shipping costs vs. weight...
post #158 of 250
I may be in the minority but i find HD to be severely overrated....For me it just doesn't add that much to film. I dont NEED to see crystal clear sweat dripping down Rocky Balboa's head or the finely detailed wrinkles in Betsy Palmer's face. I feel that HD makes movies look too similar to one another, the set pieces(especially in older films) begin to LOOK like set pieces, makeup effect flaws and what you become more obvious and i feel like that surreal movie magic and atmosphere takes a massive hit.. I'm all for 3D, but HD? Meh, whatever, i can easily do without. I'm a huge horror movie fan, and i LIKE my horror movies in 480i(Component cables, or even composite) on a decent sized 'good' Sony trinitron CRT. wink.gif

Really, here I am with a 60" Panasonic Plasma(getting a 55" S60 in 2 weeks) and i'd much rather be watching movies on my CRT. The panny's motion just can't compete with my CRT's perfect motion resolution. what good is 1080p, if it's constantly blurring to the point of looking inferior to 480i via composite cables when things get extra speedy? Maybe i'm over-exaggerating, but that precious 1080HD isn't stable on these silly hdtv's...And i find the hit in motion distracting at times....A big downgrade in order to get HD, and i feel that it's simply not worth it, at least in terms of horror. Super hero and fantasy films shine on bluray, but for everything else i don't need the extra boost in resolution.

I consider my 60" as a secondary display and the tube TV as my main.tongue.gif Oh and don't get me started on HDTV input lag. Oh little inexpensive 'going for pennies' CRT SDTV's, what would i do without you?biggrin.gif
post #159 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaveBoy View Post

I may be in the minority but i find HD to be severely overrated....For me it just doesn't add that much to film. I dont NEED to see crystal clear sweat dripping down Rocky Balboa's head or the finely detailed wrinkles in Betsy Palmer's face. I feel that HD makes movies look too similar to one another, the set pieces(especially in older films) begin to LOOK like set pieces, makeup effect flaws and what you become more obvious and i feel like that surreal movie magic and atmosphere takes a massive hit.. I'm all for 3D, but HD? Meh, whatever, i can easily do without. I'm a huge horror movie fan, and i LIKE my horror movies in 480i(Component cables, or even composite) on a decent sized 'good' Sony trinitron CRT. wink.gif

Really, here I am with a 60" Panasonic Plasma(getting a 55" S60 in 2 weeks) and i'd much rather be watching movies on my CRT. The panny's motion just can't compete with my CRT's perfect motion resolution. what good is 1080p, if it's constantly blurring to the point of looking inferior to 480i via composite cables when things get extra speedy? Maybe i'm over-exaggerating, but that precious 1080HD isn't stable on these silly hdtv's...And i find the hit in motion distracting at times....A big downgrade in order to get HD, and i feel that it's simply not worth it, at least in terms of horror. Super hero and fantasy films shine on bluray, but for everything else i don't need the extra boost in resolution.

I consider my 60" as a secondary display and the tube TV as my main.tongue.gif Oh and don't get me started on HDTV input lag. Oh little inexpensive 'going for pennies' CRT SDTV's, what would i do without you?biggrin.gif[/quote

Whatever makes you happy but I think you should lay off that BC bud! Other than guys who want SD-CRT for old games most of us here are using HD direct view CRT's. In my view SD is barbaric, how could you possible watch SD after seeing HDTV or blu-ray? Also, if your plasma is that bad you have set-up issues. Anyway enjoy your 480i & 20th century. smile.gif
post #160 of 250
There's 1080i HD CRT's, widescreen and HDMI as well too, and you can still view your 480i stuff in all its 480i glory if you so desire (i.e. with no upconversion). I do find that on mine the content on those 480i stations does look better when I switch my HD tuner to 480i output or use my ChannelMaster converter box (s-video output and linked to an s-video max. input recorder).
post #161 of 250
We have carefully considered the request and regret to inform you that WE will not be bringing CRTs back. We suggest purchasing low hour used.
Edited by mark haflich - 8/31/13 at 6:47am
post #162 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

We have carefully considered the request and regret to inform you that WE will not be bringing CRTs back. We suggest purchasing low hour used.

LOL but they're still made for India and other countries.
post #163 of 250
Somehow I think electronics manufacturers aren't combing this site looking to include the Luddites here in their business plan. rolleyes.gif If you want/need CRT get them while you can. Free curb side specials abound...
post #164 of 250
How much would 50" Trinitron CRT weigh ? My old 36" Sony Wega weighed a ton I think the 50" plasma weighs about 60 LB.
OLED will look better than both and be thin and lightweight also
post #165 of 250
36" Panasonic weighs 86kg
post #166 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

How much would 50" Trinitron CRT weigh ?

The largest Consumer CRT was "only" 40 inches; at this size, the screen height is equal to that of a 50" wide screen, and this Trinitron HDTV weighed 305 pounds, add the stand it was sold with and your have 355 pounds to deal with. This is one reason there was no 50" available.
post #167 of 250
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - Issac Asimov
post #168 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post

The largest Consumer CRT was "only" 40 inches; at this size, the screen height is equal to that of a 50" wide screen, and this Trinitron HDTV weighed 305 pounds, add the stand it was sold with and your have 355 pounds to deal with. This is one reason there was no 50" available.
Mitsubishi and Sony both made 40" 4.3 tubes there were some 43" commercial CRT displays also .


People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. - Issac Asimov:D
post #169 of 250
Mitsubishi 40" is not a Trinitron aperture grille display, which is what he was asking about, although I admit I did not repeat that explicitly in my post. There just weren't any Trinitrons larger than 40".
Edited by LiquidSnake - 9/4/13 at 9:41pm
post #170 of 250
Speaking of weight, did HD require more glass or other weighty materials for CRTubes? I noticed a significant difference in weight between my old GE (Thomson CE) 27" SD and my much newer RCA (also Thomson CE) 27" HD (4:3), about 30 lbs. difference (70 vs. 100 resp.). I've had them both opened up and there's not a huge difference in chassis, etc. although looks to be more plastic on the RCA.

I noticed a similar thing between regular computer CRT monitors and professional versions (CAD type).

If I recall correctly the heavier ones ran at higher voltages so maybe requires thicker glass? (x-ray, etc.). Those professional CRT monitors also have metal shielding around the tube.

I take it that aperture grille adds a little weight.
post #171 of 250
Yes, the Trinitron aperture grille sets have bigger, heavier frames at the front of the tube. The flat Trinitrons also have thicker, heavier glass and bigger, heavier steel frames. If your CRT has a curved face you will almost always notice a much lighter weight.
post #172 of 250
Thanks. I didn't think of the curve vs. flat front. The GE SD is curved while the RCA HD is flat.

On those pro monitors though one is curved and one is flat but they're both heavier than crud, although not a lot of curve on a smaller monitor CRT (20 or 21" HP in this case - I gave it away).
post #173 of 250
Professionals monitors were heavy as hell because they were industrial equipment, the entire thing usually had a steel case to help it stay put and stable. Considering how much they cost, this was a wanted feature. The last thing you would want in a studio would be for some guy to trip over cables and send your monitor crashing. They were also used in stacks to create video walls, the heavy frames helped to stabilize the whole deal and some monitors had places to bolt them to one another or to mounts.
post #174 of 250
Quote:
If your CRT has a curved face you will almost always notice a much lighter weight.
Tell that to my Sony W900!!!
(It might weigh less that the FW900 but its certainly one of the heavyset CRT devices ive ever carried!
CRT Technology could easily come back if their was competition.
If 1 company bought back CRT's and they sold they all would.
CRT's weren't far from being flat:

If CRT was experimented with more today it could easily be made even flatter.
Back to my W900 that goes beyond 1080p so theirs no reason that HD-CRT TV's could be marketed.
We just need a company to make them...
post #175 of 250
No need to make CRT flatter LCD/LED panels are cheaper even plasma is cheaper the newer modern LCD/LED /Plasma sets can make a better picture
not to mention OLED is on the horizon . I had a flat Sony FD Trinitron for 9 yrs it was very good as CRT goes .
No supply chain or infrastructure for CRT anymore Lucky Gold Star (LG) was making Sony,Toshiba and other CRT for some years. Now they are
Making Panels for Sony and others including the Sony 4K LED panels . Consumer and broadcasters no longer need or want CRT. Lucky Gold Star (LG) was making Sony,Toshiba and other CRT for some years ofc there is the argument of continued development stopping on CRT but probably not a valid argument anymore. OLED is expensive yields are low they might not make the mainstream . Sony has some stillborn Crystal LED or something they are no longer mentioning so now they have 4K OLED in development
the current Sony 4K LED sets are LG panels .4K LCD/LED is probably going to be more premium mainstream later
Edited by tubetwister - 9/7/13 at 4:02am
post #176 of 250
My CRTs are flat, or at least so flat I can't tell there's any curvature. One is called a TruFlat - how could they call it that if it weren't flat? I've heard of similar names on other brands.

I guess flat panels aren't cheaper for India and some other countries...
Plenty of argument on this forum in regards to PQ, at least for affordable sets. I see several of the CRT lovers went to plasma when upgrading size, usually a Panasonic (don't know the model numbers right off-hand but appeared to be higher-end plasmas); they tend to keep their CRTs (ex: Sony KD-34XBR960) for another room or as a picture&picture set to the bigger flat panel.

I think they still like CRTs for radar due to their image persistence.
post #177 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

Consumer and broadcasters no longer need or want CRT.

The BBC bought the entire remaining stock of Sony CRT PVM series professional monitors in 2008 when it was announced that Sony would cease production of pro series CRTs. They bought enough of them to ensure they would have replacements on hand for years to come.
post #178 of 250
edit boo boo please remove
Edited by tubetwister - 9/8/13 at 3:02am
post #179 of 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubetwister View Post

BBC just had a HUGE auction sale they had palettes by the truckload of same same items many NIB items after seeing that it was painfully obvious that BBC was a government service rather than a business with a sensible budget and most likely had to spend all of their money each and every year so they could ask for an increase or maybe not give any back at the end of the year not unlike here. You should have seen the pallets of Rogers and LSA studio monitors NIB it was madness. .

Those 2008 Sony CRT monitors were probably auctioned off this year for pennies on the dollar like the rest of the stuff.

2013 Sony and Panasonic professional broadcast /edit panels are likely superior to any CRT they had 2008 . 4K+ is often standard HDTV camera resolution now can CRT go that high? I don't know . Sounds like some bureaucrat got his panties in a twist or some payola when they bought those what did he think Sony and Panasonic were not going to make adequate professional standards compliant broadcast monitor gear anymore after 2008 ???? somebody was kidding somebody there.
It's not like they have more than a couple of shows on the beeb worth watching anyway . I like the news though ,Sounds kinda like here at times !

4k is coming whether we like it or not sooner or later at least in the premium space it's already there and will trickle down .They know they blew it on 3D they have to come up with the next new thing 4 k is no sweat for the content creators much is now in 4k natively anyway now it's just the service providers that will have to get on board .
OLED panel yields are still poor 4K is the next logical reason to buy a new set progression
I remember when Sony Wega Flat Trinitron first came out other than an 11K 46" EDTV plasma that was the stuff I eventually bought a wega it was very good at the time nice color eventually everybody had flat face CRT
you can get a 50" plasma with a better picture than consumer Wega OR the old $11 K plasma for probably $500.00 now decent 4K will get cheaper ..
Edited by tubetwister - 9/8/13 at 3:08am
post #180 of 250
dbl post
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