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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 35

post #1021 of 2247
Thanks for the reply! The 3-D mode does really crank up the brightness and is set at 7500K by default.
post #1022 of 2247
Just watched the results from the RC2 calibration from last night - mezmerizing!
Colours were all less that .5 from Reference, excepting Blue. It used to be untameable sitting above the 3 line. Last night, now below 1!
There's no way I thought this set would ever produce this kind of PQ. But you boys at Spectracal are making it happen! And just when I think you couldn't do any better - you do! Where the heck can you go from here, because I think you have my set at is finest yet! (Once again!)
post #1023 of 2247
So I'm diving in to calibration, i1D3 with Calman 5. I really have no idea what Im doing however. I'm having a few issues:

1) In order to even out my RGB curve with 10p balance, Im using a ton of offsets that I dont typically see other people needing to use, lots of +6/+7

2point RGB after offset/gain setting:



10p prior to calibration:



10p after calibration:



I also am having issues with individual colors, for example I have too much red in my blue:



And yet, I have no more red to down-adjust. How are you supposed to tone down colors when they are already turned down max?
post #1024 of 2247
post #1025 of 2247
Try getting your hands on an i1Pro or i1Pro 2, and profile it to your D3 and see if that doesn't give you a better calibration. (Spectracal may rent one to you to try.)
post #1026 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

So I'm diving in to calibration, i1D3 with Calman 5. I really have no idea what Im doing however. I'm having a few issues:

And yet, I have no more red to down-adjust. How are you supposed to tone down colors when they are already turned down max?

Those results look great.

Blue is slighlty undersaturated, you can't fix it.

Try grabbing CalMAN 5.1 RC. It includes our new color comparator tool that will show you how big a difference your calibration is from the targets. I can tell you from your dE's you aren't going to see much.
post #1027 of 2247
Thanks for the reply. Someone else mentioned to me that it looked like I was using the wrong workflow to calibrate my 10p, and that I was calibrating to gamma and not color? Where do I find this sort of chart (below) in calman 5? Or am I correctly using the workflow above to calibrate my 10p white balance?



Also, under the target black level, should I be setting say 40 fL, or choosing the "as measured" option. It dramatically changes the color readings depending on which options I select.

Finally, the workflows talk about setting brightness, but does not address backlight. Is the protocol to set your backlight based on a given goal fL, then from there to do brightness based on a clipping pattern? or is there a more objective way to do brightness?

Sorry for the beginner questions!
post #1028 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

Finally, the workflows talk about setting brightness, but does not address backlight. Is the protocol to set your backlight based on a given goal fL, then from there to do brightness based on a clipping pattern? or is there a more objective way to do brightness?

For an LCD
You set contrast with a clipping pattern, you set brightness with a pluge pattern, and you use the backlight control to hit your target light output.

The only time you really need to hardcode the target white level in the app is if you are trying to match displays, otherwise just using the as measured value for white as the target is better.
post #1029 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

For an LCD
You set contrast with a clipping pattern, you set brightness with a pluge pattern, and you use the backlight control to hit your target light output.

The only time you really need to hardcode the target white level in the app is if you are trying to match displays, otherwise just using the as measured value for white as the target is better.

So that is true for the target black level as well, just use the measured value?
post #1030 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavinwow View Post

So that is true for the target black level as well, just use the measured value?

Typically people used 0 as the target for black.
post #1031 of 2247
post #1032 of 2247
I sent an email to SpectraCal because I am seriously considering calibration on my own.

What is the best bundle to be future proof and not break the bank?

Also how would I calibrate my older pioneer kuro plasma? I don't think it has internet control.
post #1033 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

I sent an email to SpectraCal because I am seriously considering calibration on my own.

What is the best bundle to be future proof and not break the bank?

Also how would I calibrate my older pioneer kuro plasma? I don't think it has internet control.

You may want to take a look at this. CalMAN 5 Control with i1 Display (OEM) Bundle.

If you get into calibrating you can upgrade to Enthusiast and get something like the Radiance Mini-3D. With the Radiance Mini-3D your display doesn't need any internal controls, you don't need to use any kind of pattern generator because the Mini has its own autocal pattern generator and also you can use the 3D LUT Cube type of calibration (best). Also if you end up going to the high end LUT cube calibration you may want to get a used I1pro meter to profile your I1 display meter.

ss
post #1034 of 2247
For those that are reporting crashes with Calman:

Did you ever think of the possibility that your computer is infected with Malware?

Strongly suggest using `ALL 3' of these to scan your computer from `Safe Mode.' (Note: `Safe Mode' with Networking, not Normal Mode!)

http://www.freedrweb.com/cureit/?lng=en

www.eset.com/online-scanner

www.microsoft.com/security/scanner

Instructions:

Please note: the New Malware that is infecting CPUs is what I call Stealth Viruses.
Infects the Boot Sector of the Hard Drive, or installs first before any programs startup. The only way to detect this Malware is to remove your Hard Drive, boot up firstly with 3.5 Floppy on another Malware Free CPU and check Sectors 1 through 63. (An old copy from way back when of nu.exe with the /m switch helps greatly in this matter.) All Sectors except #1 should contain only Zeroes. If not, put them to all Zeroes. Replace Sector 1 with a new MBR.
We're seeing lots of this! What happens - as soon as you boot up, you're already infected! This infection now masks any other infections on your Hard Drive/s. (If you have more than 1 hard drive, also check the other drives. These malwares are know to put backups on the other drives.) Your AntiVirus has also been corrupted to look like it's working, but not! So, AntiVirus downloads new updates, scans, but finds nothing! Once the Boot Sector is taken care of, now scan your Hard Drive with the above mentioned Online Virus Scanners. Of course, we're assuming here that the CPU you're using is infection free?
post #1035 of 2247
Official (not beta) CalMAN 5.1.0 Build 1130 is now posted for download.

I will report back once I have D/L and ran a Cube.

ss
post #1036 of 2247
Last night I learned that when I adjust the brightness of my display to proper level of the basic brightness pattern, all my low end levels are high on the RGB balance. If I decrease brightness to the target luma, then according to the brightness pattern, my brightness is way too low. Which is more important or which should have higher priority? My other question, I learned that if I calibrate 10 IRE to less than 3 dE then all my color balances are off but still under a delta E of 3. If I want 30-100 IRE to be closer to 0 dE then I calibrate the low end at 30, but there is a super amount of red at the lowest IRE levels. Where would you guys choose to calibrate at for the low end? 80 IRE always calibrate fine, of course.
post #1037 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Last night I learned that when I adjust the brightness of my display to proper level of the basic brightness pattern, all my low end levels are high on the RGB balance. If I decrease brightness to the target luma, then according to the brightness pattern, my brightness is way too low. Which is more important or which should have higher priority? My other question, I learned that if I calibrate 10 IRE to less than 3 dE then all my color balances are off but still under a delta E of 3. If I want 30-100 IRE to be closer to 0 dE then I calibrate the low end at 30, but there is a super amount of red at the lowest IRE levels. Where would you guys choose to calibrate at for the low end? 80 IRE always calibrate fine, of course.

Set your brightness and contrast to be close to were they should be, its probably ok to set brightness a little darker than you test patterns say.

Its probably your meter that is not able to read the low IRE's correctly, so it might not be a bad idea to set 10 and 2n% by eye.

You do not want to see anything but gray in those low IRE's or in a step grayscale pattern.

ss
post #1038 of 2247
http://store.spectracal.com/calman5/download

Ready to download - after inputting some info.
post #1039 of 2247
Well, I'm on a 2 point white balance so I have to choose the lesser of calibration evils. tongue.gif I published my settings on the UT50 forum and many complained about dark scenes being tinted red, and this happens when I calibrate 30% to D65. I can give up near perfect RGB balance from 30-100 IRE so I can get REALLY good black levels, but is this recommended? I also use the AVS AVCHD disc on a new Panasonic BDT220, which I think I have the settings properly adjusted on. Would a Spears & Munsil or other retail disc make any difference compared to the AVS disc?
post #1040 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Well, I'm on a 2 point white balance so I have to choose the lesser of calibration evils. tongue.gif I published my settings on the UT50 forum and many complained about dark scenes being tinted red, and this happens when I calibrate 30% to D65. I can give up near perfect RGB balance from 30-100 IRE so I can get REALLY good black levels, but is this recommended? I also use the AVS AVCHD disc on a new Panasonic BDT220, which I think I have the settings properly adjusted on. Would a Spears & Munsil or other retail disc make any difference compared to the AVS disc?

A delta of 3 is good, and is supposed to be beyond visual perception when viewing a moving picture. Your goal is the best possible results across the range. Making compromises to get the best results (not prefect) across all stimulus levels (IRE is no longer a valid term with digital calibration) is your goal After adjusting cuts/gains you will need to readjust brightness and contrast as the cuts and gains are just the individual colors that make up white within brightness and contrast So bumping up red green and blue cuts evenly is like raising brightness. Your meeter may not be able to properly read color at 10 and 20 percent as I do not know what you are using (did not read that far back in the thread). If you can error on the side of blue at the bottom end it will be much less noticeable than red or green. Do keep in mind that adjusting either gains or cuts effects the opposite end as well.

Having really good black levels that eliminate the actual image is not the goal.. You want an accurate color with the best black the display can produce,even if that is not as good as you think it should be. However, if you Deltas are under 3 across the board, you black level is where you want it, and you can see no or very little color in a gray ramp, then you are done and that is as good as it gets.
post #1041 of 2247
Thanks, that helps me with making that decision. I'm using an i1 Display Pro, by the way. It seems to do pretty well for low level readings.
post #1042 of 2247
Just a general note... there's no such thing as IRE in digital video... it would be nice if people stopped using it. For everybody to be on the same wavelength, digital video can be expressed in terms of % white or digital levels like 16-235, 16-240 and 0-255.

The reason for this is because REAL IRE numbers can put 0% white at 7.5 IRE... so 0 IRE and 0 % white are not necessarily the same thing and this can get confusing for people who know what IRE is (an analog video concept that relates input voltage to output luminance levels... which, as you can see, has nothing to do with digital video, digital video is 1s and 0s).
post #1043 of 2247
Yes Doug you are right, but not to confuse the newer DYI folks that use a calibration software like Calman. imo its ok to use the term IRE 10% because we all know what they are talking about if we have used this type of software. Odds are if its a Plasma there using 16-235..
I am sure you know what is being ask when you see these types of post.

ss
post #1044 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Doug you are right, but not to confuse the newer DYI folks that use a calibration software like Calman. imo its ok to use the term IRE 10% because we all know what they are talking about if we have used this type of software.
I am sure you know what is being ask when you see these types of post.

ss

We do not use IRE anywhere within CalMAN and as Doug pointed out that is from the analog world in mV 0-700. We do use percent of stimulus or bits all over the product depending on which options or workflows you are using. But don't confuse percent of stimulus with IRE.
post #1045 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We do not use IRE anywhere within CalMAN and as Doug pointed out that is from the analog world in mV 0-700. We do use percent of stimulus or bits all over the product depending on which options or workflows you are using. But don't confuse percent of stimulus with IRE.

Hi Derek,

I have only just got used to using the word 'gamma' so I hope this is going to be retained.
post #1046 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes Doug you are right, but not to confuse the newer DYI folks that use a calibration software like Calman. imo its ok to use the term IRE 10% because we all know what they are talking about if we have used this type of software. Odds are if its a Plasma there using 16-235..
I am sure you know what is being ask when you see these types of post.

ss

Point is, it is the wrong term to use and not used in Calman at all . We may know what they are referring to but why would we not correct the language used? Sort of like saying the speed limit is 55 leagues an hour.. Not really accurate since a league is about 3 miles not 1.. But you guessed I meant a mile..
post #1047 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We do not use IRE anywhere within CalMAN and as Doug pointed out that is from the analog world in mV 0-700. We do use percent of stimulus or bits all over the product depending on which options or workflows you are using. But don't confuse percent of stimulus with IRE.

Yes you are correct (of -course), but let me show you were the confusion comes into play.

When somebody is using a calibration program like Calman and the internal controls of there TV like a VT50, it will show Input signal level of 10IRE, 20IRE and so on. So imo its understandable why the term 10 IRE is used.
And of course when somebody reads your help guide and Calman says " Select the display’s 10 or 11 point white balance calibration mode and select the 100% (or100IRE) adjustment point.", so I hope you see were this confusion comes from.

ss .
post #1048 of 2247
Yep, it can be confusing with all the different terms that the manufactures use and internet history provides.. Shouldn't those that know the proper terms try and educate those that use the incorrect terms? Isn't that why we are all here, to learn? If every new person was told that IRE is an invalid term and they should be saying % stimulus (yes IRE is much more fun to type) the first time they post, the improper language would be greatly reduced, No?
post #1049 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes you are correct (of -course), but let me show you were the confusion comes into play.

When somebody is using a calibration program like Calman and the internal controls of there TV like a VT50, it will show Input signal level of 10IRE, 20IRE and so on. So imo its understandable why the term 10 IRE is used.
And of course when somebody reads your help guide and Calman says " Select the display’s 10 or 11 point white balance calibration mode and select the 100% (or100IRE) adjustment point.", so I hope you see were this confusion comes from.

ss .

Many manufacturers have it labeled wrong
post #1050 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Yep, it can be confusing with all the different terms that the manufactures use and internet history provides.. Shouldn't those that know the proper terms try and educate those that use the incorrect terms? Isn't that why we are all here, to learn? If every new person was told that IRE is an invalid term and they should be saying % stimulus (yes IRE is much more fun to type) the first time they post, the improper language would be greatly reduced, No?

So we should be using the term EOCF instead of gamma?

Reminds me of the time they decided to change driving in the UK from left hand side of the road to right.
It failed because the bureaucrats wanted to do it in phases, trucks on monday followed by cars on tuesday..
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