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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 41

post #1201 of 2247
Plus in the Computer Business, many a time customers have come in with the latest greatest Video Card, but forgot to read the specs that this Card requires a 500 Watt Power Supply. So client figures he's OK because he has a 500 Watt Power Supply, but is not told that the 500 is for the card only, not including the rest of the system. Thusly the card eventually burns out from being under powered. Also some so called 500 Watt Power Supplies, are 500 Watt peak Power Supplies for a few seconds. Thus again, card burn out. ($49 pricing might be a clue!) Output specs??
post #1202 of 2247
How hard would it be to make a USB device you could just write triplets to and have it stream those exact numbers out on an HDMI cable? It couldn't be hard at all. There's no need for HDCP or any other "get in the way" hanshaking cr@p that comes with a licensing fee. Is there a license fee to just use the HDMI interface?

You would have a completely accurate software based swatch generator. No need for patterns, as it would be for this automated process exclusively. Just swatches... you don't even need a frame buffer! How much simpler could it get? Sell it for $20? I'd buy one for $100! Then I could sell my Mini 3D and just use the eeColor box. Forget trying to find a "pure" video card. They are way more complex than needed. Just bypass all that stuff.
post #1203 of 2247
I have a USB to HDMI converter which returns reasonble results compared with my Vp401 and jeti 1211BT.
I'd note better than any Radiance verse my Vp401 I have measured.

Where it fails is getting the PCgenerator to display onto the second window. Works on one tv then not on the next.
Edited by <^..^>Smokey Joe - 3/13/13 at 6:06pm
post #1204 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

I have a USB to HDMI converter which returns reasonble results compared with my Vp401 and jeti 1211BT.
I'd note better than any Radiance verse my Vp401

Where it fails is getting the PCgenerator to display onto the second window. Works on one tv then not on the next.

Yes, but I was thinking something even simpler than that... tiny... only one use... swatches... it wouldn't even do video... simple driver that just writes triplets... just get rid of all the complicated stuff that could mess up the output. That would guarantee proper output in the simplest way... if it doesn't exist, it can't interfere.
post #1205 of 2247
Actually this USB to HDMI device is as simple as that, not throw away, but for $80 I was surprised.

It's about the size of a credit card, 15mm thick
post #1206 of 2247
@erkq and smokey joe.

I think we would all hope your proposals would happen if only for financial reasons.

Unfortunately as a non techy I am unclear as to how it would actually be inserted into the chain of say VP, ColorBox and Display.

Apologies for my technical ignorance.
post #1207 of 2247
another question on the software. Calman 5.1

When I do the 10 point grayscale, I am left with this picture. just as an example with height of bars on graph

40% - no bar
50% - 1 bar high
60% - 1/2 bar
70% - no bar
80% - 1 bar

That is just to give you an idea of what my bar graph looks like on a 10 point.

Now in this situation, I am sitting at 2.22 gamma and delta of 0.27.

If I then go and do a temp check on all of these patterns, the 40% gray might show 6513. The 70% gray may show 6620. They both have no bars visible on the 10 point and no colors showing up or down???

Is this not a valid check then on temps? I would think the closer to no bar showing on the graph would give a closer temp to 6504, but they do not seem to corrolate like this. Are we supposed to get as close to no bar showing on all of the 10 patterns or if 100% white is 1/2 bar up, make the others all as close to 1/2 bar also?

I am wondering about this because it seems when I run a calibration and do my 10 point grayscale, I can get a low error and low bars on the graph, but I seem to always end up making my low end too blue and changing the actual color and tint of black. Usually 10-30% gray has no bars showing on the graph at all when I am done. Is it correct then? My grayscale pattern shows some dark blue tint by my eyes when I look at it afterwards too. When do I know to leave the low end alone if not by how much I have on the bar graph?
post #1208 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

@erkq and smokey joe.

I think we would all hope your proposals would happen if only for financial reasons.

Unfortunately as a non techy I am unclear as to how it would actually be inserted into the chain of say VP, ColorBox and Display.

Apologies for my technical ignorance.

It would be the pattern generator. It would put color swatches up on the display under the control of the calibration software for the meter to measure. Currently, for me, the Lumagen Mini 3D does this.
post #1209 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

It would be the pattern generator. It would put color swatches up on the display under the control of the calibration software for the meter to measure. Currently, for me, the Lumagen Mini 3D does this.

I meant what order this would take.

Currently you have Laptop USB Port > USB to Serial Converter > Mini > Display

Would it go from another Laptop USB port direct to the Display or is that too simplistic?
post #1210 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

How hard would it be to make a USB device you could just write triplets to and have it stream those exact numbers out on an HDMI cable? It couldn't be hard at all. There's no need for HDCP or any other "get in the way" hanshaking cr@p that comes with a licensing fee. Is there a license fee to just use the HDMI interface?

You would have a completely accurate software based swatch generator. No need for patterns, as it would be for this automated process exclusively. Just swatches... you don't even need a frame buffer! How much simpler could it get? Sell it for $20? I'd buy one for $100! Then I could sell my Mini 3D and just use the eeColor box. Forget trying to find a "pure" video card. They are way more complex than needed. Just bypass all that stuff.

I'm not sure it'd be that simple. Any time you have an HDMI transmitter on one end of a cable, and a receiver on the other end, they negotiate a connection, or "handshake", in other words, even if HDCP isn't involved. And displays do not take raw triplet data. Every source sends its video data already packaged as frames and/or fields. So whatever you use to either generate the triplets or send them out would somehow have to create at least one frame of video for each new triplet along with info that tells the display to store and repeat it until told to stop. Now you have what is essentially another video subsystem for the computer.
post #1211 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I meant what order this would take.

Currently you have Laptop USB Port > USB to Serial Converter > Mini > Display

Would it go from another Laptop USB port direct to the Display or is that too simplistic?

Yes, that is how it would work. But looking at RR's post above, I guess it's not that simple. But my idea is to strip it down to the simplest level possible for static, single color swatches.
post #1212 of 2247
erkq actually I re read your former posts, what you describe is actually a video generator, to be accurate it needs to to be varified, and the cost ends up back to where we start.

The reasoning I use a USB to HDMI converter is mainly because my laptop doesnt have HDMI output.

Its is cheap and effective for Triplet support checks, I still use my generator for actual values.
post #1213 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by <^..^>Smokey Joe View Post

erkq actually I re read your former posts, what you describe is actually a video generator, to be accurate it needs to to be varified, and the cost ends up back to where we start.

The reasoning I use a USB to HDMI converter is mainly because my laptop doesnt have HDMI output.

Its is cheap and effective for Triplet support checks, I still use my generator for actual values.

Ah-ha... yes, of course... a video generator. That's it. Oh well... guess it's simplest to keep my Lumagen if I ever want to play with an eeColor box or similar.
post #1214 of 2247
Joel,
Enthusiast 5.1
Is there any way to raise the Cube DeltaE target??

ss
post #1215 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Joel,
Enthusiast 5.1
Is there any way to raise the Cube DeltaE target??

ss

We just noticed that you can't get to this particular setting. For all of our cube devices except the radiance you can go into a custom mode where you can set it, but the radiance doesn't have a custom data point mode.
post #1216 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

We just noticed that you can't get to this particular setting. For all of our cube devices except the radiance you can go into a custom mode where you can set it, but the radiance doesn't have a custom data point mode.

I am using eecolor box, but yes you are right about the Mini also.

Any settings in Calman I should use to speed up the low light readings using my C6 profiled by my I1pro2?

Thanks,

ss
post #1217 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I am using eecolor box, but yes you are right about the Mini also.

Any settings in Calman I should use to speed up the low light readings using my C6 profiled by my I1pro2?

Thanks,

ss

For an eeColor or ColorBox you should be able to select custom for your cube size and get the option of setting your dE threshold.

The C6 has a dynamic exposure, so it should always be reasonably accurate. Granted when I'm using mine I'm primarily using it for testing, But I use it in single sample mode with the LLH off. That's the fastest mode you can put it in.
post #1218 of 2247
Which version of Calman will allow me to profile a colorimeter against a spectro and use the colorimeter for calibration?
post #1219 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougri View Post

Which version of Calman will allow me to profile a colorimeter against a spectro and use the colorimeter for calibration?

Control and Enthusiast.
post #1220 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Thanks Praz (and Airscapes)..

If you get an eeColorBox from Buzz how will you generate the patterns?

I was hoping to use my DUO should I need an eecolorbox for my next Display but as you say not suitable (thanks Derek for explanation why that is so).

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


Using an Accupel 5000 generator for reference I've checked AVSHD with several Panasonic BD players, Lumagen Radiance, and internal patterns from LightSpace, ChromaPure, and Calman. They are all quite accurate. If generating from the software programs, compare the reads to AVSHD. If you don't, you'll never know, like calibrating with an unprofiled colorimeter - shot in the dark....

as from readings in the spectracal forum I thought the Accupel 5000 doesn't have full RGB triplet support which is needed for 3D LUT and sweeps. Or am I wrong? Please clearify as I have the chance to get one of these devices and want to use it for eeColor too.
post #1221 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post


as from readings in the spectracal forum I thought the Accupel 5000 doesn't have full RGB triplet support which is needed for 3D LUT and sweeps. Or am I wrong? Please clearify as I have the chance to get one of these devices and want to use it for eeColor too.

The Accupel 5000 has full triplet support with reference output and CalMAN added support for the Accupel 5000's full triplet support a few Builds ago, it's a great companion for the eeColor!
Edited by turbe - 3/16/13 at 10:53am
post #1222 of 2247
turbe, thanks for that and sorry for my ignorance but:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429372/calman-5-home-video-released#post_22423782
last point in known issues. So it should be related to the Accupel firmware and not to Calman.
and
https://wsr.spectracal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=3965

"Full RGB triplet support, meaning we can set any RGB value 0-255 or 0-1024 as needed:
VideoForge
Phabrix
Radiance

Limited RGB triplet:
AccuPel 4000 - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
AccuPel 5000 - supports triplet mode but is limited to 64-940 for some reason
Quantum Data 88x - currently has a bug that will compress the output to 16-235 even if we are sending RGB triplets
DVDO Duo - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
PC Client - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output
Built in CalMAN pattern window - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output"
post #1223 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

turbe, thanks for that and sorry for my ignorance but:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1429372/calman-5-home-video-released#post_22423782
last point in known issues. So it should be related to the Accupel firmware and not to Calman.
and
https://wsr.spectracal.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=92&t=3965

"Full RGB triplet support, meaning we can set any RGB value 0-255 or 0-1024 as needed:
VideoForge
Phabrix
Radiance

Limited RGB triplet:
AccuPel 4000 - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
AccuPel 5000 - supports triplet mode but is limited to 64-940 for some reason
Quantum Data 88x - currently has a bug that will compress the output to 16-235 even if we are sending RGB triplets
DVDO Duo - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
PC Client - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output
Built in CalMAN pattern window - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output"
I have a DVG-5000, it seems to function properly in the latest version. (Full RGB) I also have a Lumagen, which functions the same, as far as pattern generators. I know in previous versions they were having issues with the DVG, but it seems to be sorted out.

On a side note. The latest firmware for the DVG-5000 let's you select window sizes down to 5%, and background %. These are great added features.
Edited by ElectronicTonic - 3/16/13 at 1:36pm
post #1224 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

AccuPel 5000 - supports triplet mode but is limited to 64-940 for some reason

They fixed that in a firmware update.

With the latest firmware, it has full RGB triplet support.
post #1225 of 2247
well, 'fixed' is not the proper term, full triplet support was a added feature coming up nearly 1 year ago.. just as any of the other current generation of professional pattern generators, features can be added with these updates in the field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

turbe, thanks for that and sorry for my ignorance but:

Limited RGB triplet:
AccuPel 4000 - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
AccuPel 5000 - supports triplet mode but is limited to 64-940 for some reason
Quantum Data 88x - currently has a bug that will compress the output to 16-235 even if we are sending RGB triplets
DVDO Duo - only supports RGB in percent 0-100
PC Client - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output
Built in CalMAN pattern window - supports full RGB triplets but we can't guarantee the PC has not messed up the output"

the information is outdated in that post and was outdated when the post was originally posted in regards to the Accupel 5000's features...

this was also checked by Chris Heinonen @ Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity, he posted here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1441686/colorimeter-spectro-combos#post_22637094

anyways, my last post above is accurate and you are set with the Accupel 5000 with the eeColor..

Buzz, as many Professionals, is using one and of course he's working with the eeColor
Edited by turbe - 3/16/13 at 1:41pm
post #1226 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

"Full RGB triplet support, meaning we can set any RGB value 0-255 or 0-1024 as needed:
This is not supported by HDMI specs for digital video. The valid range for full-range video signals is 1-254 (8-bit) and 4-1019 (10-bit). The remaining space is used for sync values employed with SDI video. The nominal range is, of course, 16-235/64-940.

The only way to get 0-255 or 0-1024 is to use a PC RGB output mode.

In video output mode the AccuPel DVG-5000 adheres to the 1-254 (8-bit) and 4-1019 (10-bit) standard. You can get 0-255 or 0-1024 by changing the output mode to PC.

It is a negligible distinction, but I thought I would mention it.
post #1227 of 2247
OK, thanks for all comments and explanations. Reason why I asked again is that I will buy from private in the US and live in EU. So purchase is a one way ticket and just wanted to be 100% sure not to buy a useless device.
post #1228 of 2247
Is there an additional license requirement for viewing a previous calibration session ? I am trying to look at the cal I did last night and I get a "The workflow you have selected is not licensed to this product". I have Calman Control
post #1229 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Is there an additional license requirement for viewing a previous calibration session ? I am trying to look at the cal I did last night and I get a "The workflow you have selected is not licensed to this product". I have Calman Control

No it is a bug that snuck back into the 5.1 branch.

We've got it fixed internally and will be in the next patch, would should be soon.
post #1230 of 2247
Thanks joel
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