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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 47

post #1381 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

I have both OEM D3 and a C6 and they are both excellent meters.

I think the idea of profiling is to check out the Display for conformity to its type.

I don't think either meter would be the cause of any errors, they give great accuracy for the amateur like me. However, if your display is not typical of the LUT type you use during calibration whether Calman or Chromapure that's where the error can be hence the use of profiling for each Display.

In all probability your Display will be typical but there's always that nagging doubt.
I bought a Spectro to check and it was very close so effectively wasted my money. If I change my Display however I can check that one as well, probably with the same result.

I used to have a Chroma 5 and I1 pro and enjoyed that combo. I like calibrating cms and 30%-100%, then profiling the colorimeter to the spectro and checking 10% and 20%

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

All these meters are creating work for you. Ignorance is bliss smile.gif

Besides the studios are just screwing up the color timing in all the new film transfers.

I disagree. I want an accurate display so I can see the movie the way the director intended. Teal, orange or not. smile.gif
post #1382 of 2247
I know, I was just in an odd mood after reading The Terminator (remastered) thread on Blu-ray.com tongue.gif

Do you find the profiling helps at certain levels only or are the errors more across the board?

Right now I am more worried about tracking the gamma curve properly than slight blanket tints.
post #1383 of 2247
It helps all the way across. I don't profile and then use the colorimeter for everything though. I just prefer to use the spectro for most of the work and only used the profiled meter in the areas I need it. I know most just profile at the start and then put the spectro up, but I don't.
post #1384 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

It helps all the way across. I don't profile and then use the colorimeter for everything though. I just prefer to use the spectro for most of the work and only used the profiled meter in the areas I need it. I know most just profile at the start and then put the spectro up, but I don't.

I do the opposite and (with hindsight) wish I had taken Joel's advice to trust the C6 meter.
post #1385 of 2247
I was just able to compare my D3 pro (with profile tables from ChromaPure) to a photo research meter, and while it was close, it wasn't close enough were I now would use it solely for a cal knowing what I know.

Same was said for my old enhanced chroma 5 from spectrecal. I should have never sold my first i1 pro.
post #1386 of 2247
gadgtfreek,

How far off was the c6 in x y? Thanks.
post #1387 of 2247
Don't have the numbers with me. I do remember that de was under 2.0 for gray scale with the PR and my D3 Pro was greater than 5 for the average, reading green as high. I can go in and measure again and show some charts. This is not the c6 I'm talking about though but my ChromaPure meter. Moral of the story is, and its been said by a lot of smart folks here, meter profiles built in are not as good as actually profiling to a electro each time you calibrate.If the D3/C6 were all the budget could handle, I'd have no fear calibrating my display with them and enjoying life. A de of 5 is way better than most stock modes.
post #1388 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Moral of the story is, and its been said by a lot of smart folks here, meter profiles built in are not as good as actually profiling to a electro each time you calibrate.

100% agree ! I always profile my EODIS3 /C6 against my i1 pro2. The (new) C6 was about deltaE > 5 away from my (new) i1 pro 2 !
post #1389 of 2247
Thanks Gadgtfreek. I have the c6, d3 and the i1pro. I do profile the c6 and d3 to my i1pro. I just wanted to see how far off the d3 was off to the PR. If you don't mind posting the charts, I would appreciate it.

Thanks for replying.
post #1390 of 2247
My last test - on the pre-calibration readings - All the Greyscale with the C6 were at the 5 line. After profiling, all at or below the 1 line - quite the difference! Didn't pay attention to the Colours after seeing the Greyscale differences, but I seem to remember there were definite differences. Will re-test tonight since I was going to blow away last night's mess anyways. New Lumagen FW updates and Calman seem to be having their differences!

New Test - Do the figures tell the whole story?
C6 doing pre-calibration reading after my Lumagen was Reset back to Defaults: Greyscale: all levels were between 5 to 6
Colours: 6 Below 3, Balance from 3 to 5
Gamma DeltaL Max: 1.9 Gamma DeltaL Avg: 0.9 Colour Checker Max dE2000: 6.9 Colour Checker Avg dE2000: 3.7

C6 doing pre-calibration reading of my set Profiled from i1Pro on Defaults:: Greyscale: all levels were at 4
Colours: 2 Above 5, 3 above 3 and the Balance Below 3
Gamma DeltaL Max: 1.8 Gamma DeltaL Avg: 0.9 Colour Checker Max dE2000: 6.9 Colour Checker Avg dE2000: 2.7

Only major change was on the Colour Checker Avg dE2000 - but definitely a difference looking at the workflo charts.
I think I'll stick to Profiling.
Note: This is on my set, others on other sets may have differences that are less, others may find greater.
Will list the result readings for after the current calibration is finished: (C6 Profiled off i1Pro)

Gamma DeltaL Max: 0.3 Gamma deltaL Avg: 0.1 Colour Checker Max dE2000: 1.7 Colour Checker Avg dE2000: 0.7
Results for Greyscale and Colours almost Ruler flat just above the 0 line.

C6 Profile Removed:
Gamma DeltaL Max: 0.4 Gamma deltaL Avg: 0.1 Colour Checker Max dE2000: 4.9 Colour Checker Avg dE2000: 2.5
Results for Greyscale: Between 3 to 5
Colours: 4 above the 3 line, and rest below, but not ruler flat..
Edited by p5browne - 4/11/13 at 10:43pm
post #1391 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

From what? I have the D3 pro with chromapure and its been nice. Its like the C6 with built in profiles.

That being said I decided to grab an i1 pro 2 and D3 OEM with calman 5 for profiling. Should be pretty deversified now smile.gif

Upgrade to a Spectral 6 from a X-Rite Display 3 PRO colorimeter.
post #1392 of 2247
IMO since you already have the colorimeter, I'd save a little longer and get the i1 pro 2 for profiling. There is also an i 1 pro for sale here in the classifeds.
post #1393 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

IMO since you already have the colorimeter, I'd save a little longer and get the i1 pro 2 for profiling. There is also an i 1 pro for sale here in the classifeds.

What exactly is profiling? (Beginner here )
post #1394 of 2247
You take initial measurements of a few patterns with a spectro like the i1 or jeti, then make a run with the less accurate colorimeter. Calman then can see how far the colorimeter is off from the spectro and applies the offsets to make the colorimeter as accurate. The c6 has built in profiles, but if budget allows, its better IMO to profile to a spectro each time you sit down with these meters.
post #1395 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

You take initial measurements of a few patterns with a spectro like the i1 or jeti, then make a run with the less accurate colorimeter. Calman then can see how far the colorimeter is off from the spectro and applies the offsets to make the colorimeter as accurate. The c6 has built in profiles, but if budget allows, its better IMO to profile to a spectro each time you sit down with these meters.

Franin, one important thing to add to the above description is that a profile is only valid on the exact display it was made on.
The reason for this is that every type of light be it CRT, LED,CCFL, HUP etc etc has a different light spectrum blend. Even 2 TVs that are the same year and model can have 2 different lamps part numbers that have different spectral characteristics requiring different profiles.
post #1396 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Franin, one important thing to add to the above description is that a profile is only valid on the exact display it was made on.
The reason for this is that every type of light be it CRT, LED,CCFL, HUP etc etc has a different light spectrum blend. Even 2 TVs that are the same year and model can have 2 different lamps part numbers that have different spectral characteristics requiring different profiles.

Exactly, this is the gamble.

Is my Display typical of its type?.
It may very well be (mine was) but until you check you will never know.
post #1397 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

You take initial measurements of a few patterns with a spectro like the i1 or jeti, then make a run with the less accurate colorimeter. Calman then can see how far the colorimeter is off from the spectro and applies the offsets to make the colorimeter as accurate. The c6 has built in profiles, but if budget allows, its better IMO to profile to a spectro each time you sit down with these meters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airscapes View Post

Franin, one important thing to add to the above description is that a profile is only valid on the exact display it was made on.
The reason for this is that every type of light be it CRT, LED,CCFL, HUP etc etc has a different light spectrum blend. Even 2 TVs that are the same year and model can have 2 different lamps part numbers that have different spectral characteristics requiring different profiles.

Thank you for your reply. Im going to have to start looking into this. I didn't realize how much is involved when it comes to display calibrating. Just want to say the members on this thread are great, you guys are opening up whole new world when it comes to display calibrating. Thankyou
post #1398 of 2247
No problem. The easy explanation is if you can only afford a $700 meter, then c6 is s good choice, granted most pro's would tell you if they could have only one its i1 pro. Ideally instead of having a c6 with profiles built in the lab, you want a i1 display OEM and i1 pro so you can build your profile at the time of calibration on the exact display you ate calibtating. I1 pro gives the colorimeter the accuracy it lacks, then the colorimeter gives you the speed and low light accuracy the i1 does not have.
post #1399 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

No problem. The easy explanation is if you can only afford a $700 meter, then c6 is s good choice, granted most pro's would tell you if they could have only one its i1 pro. Ideally instead of having a c6 with profiles built in the lab, you want a i1 display OEM and i1 pro so you can build your profile at the time of calibration on the exact display you ate calibtating. I1 pro gives the colorimeter the accuracy it lacks, then the colorimeter gives you the speed and low light accuracy the i1 does not have.

Thats very good to know, thanks.
post #1400 of 2247
All my smarts came from the school of hard knocks. Try and avoid others learning that way lol
post #1401 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

All my smarts came from the school of hard knocks. Try and avoid others learning that way lol

Sometime its the best way to learn smile.gif
post #1402 of 2247
True. A few years ago I bought a cheaper colorimeter only, when the advice was to buy an i1 pro. I'm hard headed.
post #1403 of 2247
The other benefit, not mentioned is, as the 2 types of Meters age, the i1Pro will hold it's specs way longer than the C6! When Profiling the i1Pro to the C6, it now keeps the C6 up to Spec, plus the benefits of the i1Pro.
post #1404 of 2247
Great point. Most posts I've seen here seem to state after years they are just as accurate as day 1.
post #1405 of 2247
I think to be exact it is the I1Pro REV D with matching white plate, that most of the comments are made about.

Also with a used the I1pro REV D i would use soft white durable cloth tape to cover the parts of the black gasket if you are going to use on-screen mode.
I found with my I1pro REV D the black gasket would leave black marks on my Plasmas, so I had to do a lot of soft rubbing to get the black marks off. eek.gif

ss
Edited by sillysally - 4/12/13 at 1:37pm
post #1406 of 2247
I wouldn't use any probe in contact mode with a plasma tv.
post #1407 of 2247
I do all the time, screen aint that hot.

On another note, I just got the email to download Calman 5 and the meters are on the way. Ive been goofing around in the menu and tutorials to get used to things, but I have one question (keep in mind I havent used calman since version 3). Where is the gamut chart for taking these advanced readings:

post #1408 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudgiator View Post

I wouldn't use any probe in contact mode with a plasma tv.

Yes that is what many pro's will say, and I agree with them. However if you don't have a way to keep the I1pro off the screen as I did not have when I used my I1pro calibrating my Kuro's
I found the soft white (surgical) cloth tape was the easiest and left the least imprint on my Kuro plasma screens. Actually it was D-Nice that said to be very careful.

ss
post #1409 of 2247
The only meter I ever had mark my screen was the stupid Chroma 5 with those suction cup things. The new I1 Display and the I1 Pro are no worries, at least for me. I do let the meters warm up on screen for awhile though, after the display i warmed yp.
post #1410 of 2247
It looks like I need Calman Enthusiast to get the other gamut charts, did not notice that. Ill have to mull that one over because I can always run them with my other software.
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