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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 62

post #1831 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Is it possible to go back and run AutoCal on the 10pt grayscale a second time within the same session without the grayscale being reset ? I was afraid to try because I thought it might just automatically reset all the grayscale adjustments without any warning.

I ask because I noticed that my grayscale shifted from a slight blue bias on the low end to a green bias after I ran AutoCal on the CMS. I have a VT50 and it always requires large adjustments to Blue, including max'ing out saturation. I think these large adjustments are having an impact on the grayscale.

Yes that's a problem with blue and the VT50. imo there's not much you are going to do with Blue to make it right. However your dE of 2.5 is high. See my manual calibration in my sig for the VT50.
Chances are your meters are ok.
I would suggest you use off screen mode for both your active and reference meters. However that gets tricky to sync the meters before profiling. Using a 11% window set your I1Pro back at 18" and you D3 12" back, centring the meters as close as you can. .

If you are not using CM 5.2 RC2, install it. Use autocal for both graysale and CMS.

You may also want to get a eecolor box and do a 17^3 cube, that should help with Blue.

ss
post #1832 of 2247
Why do we need 5.2 RC2?

I am running 5.1.2 waiting for official 5.2 release.
Edited by AVfile - 11/2/13 at 9:29pm
post #1833 of 2247
The RC 2 has improved upon autocal, at least with a 17^3 cube.
I am running CM5 Pro, but I would think that's about the same as Home CM5.

ss
post #1834 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes that's a problem with blue and the VT50. imo there's not much you are going to do with Blue to make it right. However your dE of 2.5 is high. See my manual calibration in my sig for the VT50.
Chances are your meters are ok.
I would suggest you use off screen mode for both your active and reference meters. However that gets tricky to sync the meters before profiling. Using a 11% window set your I1Pro back at 18" and you D3 12" back, centring the meters as close as you can. .

If you are not using CM 5.2 RC2, install it. Use autocal for both graysale and CMS.

You may also want to get a eecolor box and do a 17^3 cube, that should help with Blue.

ss

Thanks for the tips. I'm still a little uncertain about the profile for my D3 Pro. If I use either meter by itself (without profiling), I do get a better result for Blue. This is the reason I was hoping it would be possible to profile the D3 Pro but not change it's Blue response.

Also not sure why using the meters in non-contact would be preferred. Would this not simply introduce more potential for error, unless you have an absolute dark room ?

Lastly, curious how it is that your CMS settings appear to be 0 to 100 rather than -50 to +50 ?
post #1835 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Thanks for the tips. I'm still a little uncertain about the profile for my D3 Pro. If I use either meter by itself (without profiling), I do get a better result for Blue. This is the reason I was hoping it would be possible to profile the D3 Pro but not change it's Blue response.

Also not sure why using the meters in non-contact would be preferred. Would this not simply introduce more potential for error, unless you have an absolute dark room ?

Lastly, curious how it is that your CMS settings appear to be 0 to 100 rather than -50 to +50 ?

When you profile your two meters, you are profiling the meters to how the display performs, therefore giving you better reads.

When you profile a color meter to a spectrometer you are getting the best of both worlds.

The speed and low light readings of a color meter, and the accuracy of a light meter.

That's why I suggested when calibrating a Plasma to use off screen meter placement. When using off screen you are sampling a larger screen area.

Yes when using off screen mode you want a dark room.and its probably a good idea evem if you do on screen.

Plus using off screen mode you don't have to worry about scuffing your screen.

In my VT60 settings there are no CMS settings, mainly because of the type of calibrations I do know. I do very large CMS calibrations 4913 (17^3) points as were a normal type of CMS calibration is only 6 points. This type of calibration is called LUT 3D cube For calibrations this large and detailed you need a external holder and processor.

Keep in mind when profiling two meters to your display you want to read the same area for both meters, this is also applies to on screen profiling.

ss

.
post #1836 of 2247
Will the new Radiance pattern be supported in the final 5.2 version of Calman?

http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiancemini_updates

"Production 102913- Added 2 APL patterns to the Gray Window pattern group. Added a custom window size and a custom window size + APL pattern to the User Color window pattern group. The 2 new patterns added to the User group use the RGB level that are settable in the first 3 patterns. The custom sizing allows setting the window size in .1% steps. The custom size + APL pattern allows setting both the window size and an APL. As you vary the size of the window the background level is adjusted to give the desired APL. If it can't meet the requested APL, a greater-than or less-than sign is displayed next to APL to indicate this (.ie setting RGB=240,240,240, the custom size to 90.0% and the APL to 30% would give the greater-than sign next to APL). Added rs232 access to the new patterns. The rs232 format for the new User size pattern is "ZY7TsSSSRRRGGGBBB" with SSS being 3 digits (000-999) for 0-99.9% area of screen. The rs232 format for the user defined size + APL pattern is "ZY7TsSSSAAARRRGGGBBB" with AAA being 3 digits to be set to 000-100 for 0-100% APL."
post #1837 of 2247
post #1838 of 2247
Doesn't look very essential.
post #1839 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Doesn't look very essential.

Several people on the Lumagen support forum were asking for it, though.
post #1840 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFaxe View Post

Will the new Radiance pattern be supported in the final 5.2 version of Calman?

It doesn't look like it will make it into 5.2.0. But we'll want to get it in as soon as possible.
post #1841 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

That's why I suggested when calibrating a Plasma to use off screen meter placement. When using off screen you are sampling a larger screen area.

Yes when using off screen mode you want a dark room.and its probably a good idea evem if you do on screen.

Plus using off screen mode you don't have to worry about scuffing your screen.

Keep in mind when profiling two meters to your display you want to read the same area for both meters, this is also applies to on screen profiling.

ss

Thanks again for the tips ! It makes sense, especially the larger screen area. I will see if I can implement these next time around.
post #1842 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It doesn't look like it will make it into 5.2.0. But we'll want to get it in as soon as possible.

Thanks Joel !
Fingers crossed that the update is coming soon.
post #1843 of 2247
Ok, guys I am a dunce, Had to erase my settings after a botched calibration try on my JVC 4810 projector.

I have both a C6 and i1Pro2 so I was planning on profiling.

Are these sound steps?

1. Use Spears and Munsil for initial calibration.
2. Profile the meters per instructions
3. What do I autocal within Calman? Grayscale? And what cube do I use if I have a Radiance 2021.
4. Save input memory to Radiance.


Is there a detailed guide for this as I am a complete idiot sometimes?
post #1844 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by colleycol View Post

Ok, guys I am a dunce, Had to erase my settings after a botched calibration try on my JVC 4810 projector.

I have both a C6 and i1Pro2 so I was planning on profiling.

Are these sound steps?

1. Use Spears and Munsil for initial calibration.
2. Profile the meters per instructions
3. What do I autocal within Calman? Grayscale? And what cube do I use if I have a Radiance 2021.
4. Save input memory to Radiance.


Is there a detailed guide for this as I am a complete idiot sometimes?

Yes SM is fine
Yes as CM tells you
Use the 3D cube workflow, cube size 9X9X9 (9^3)
Yes you would set in CM the CMS memory (1 thru 6) that you want the finished LUT/calibration to go to in your 2021. Once CM has loaded you LUT in your CMS memory, don't forget to use the save button in your 2021.

ss .
post #1845 of 2247
New Calman Version 5.2.0 #1372 now available: (But really #1371)

http://store.spectracal.com/downloads/
Edited by p5browne - 11/8/13 at 10:04am
post #1846 of 2247
I own CalMAN 5, but I get so confused with calibration software now. I just learned that my i1 Display Pro needs a correction file via CCSS/EDR. Does CalMAN 5 provide that? Is it more or less accurate than HCFR?
post #1847 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

I own CalMAN 5, but I get so confused with calibration software now. I just learned that my i1 Display Pro needs a correction file via CCSS/EDR. Does CalMAN 5 provide that? Is it more or less accurate than HCFR?

Couldn't say, but I think the AVS Pattern Disk is possibly better. I use iScan Duos on 2 of my sets and the Lumagen Radiance XE-3D on the other. Found leaving all the settings on Zeroes, and stop manipulating the actual TV in favour of the external VQs was less stressful on the TV.
post #1848 of 2247
I can't figure out the Source thingy... I have downloaded several pattern discs and I burnt them onto a DVD. But how do I get CalMAN 5 to read from my DVD Drive on my PC? My HDTV is connected to my PC that runs CalMAN 5. I would like to use my DVD Drive as the source for patterns. How do I do it? I also purchased CalPC. My CalMAN 5 license is the Control one.

It makes it so complicated with this pattern source, asking for some IR devices.... I just have my good old DVD Drive and Windows 7!
Edited by MonarchX - 11/11/13 at 6:13pm
post #1849 of 2247
If you don't have the IR blaster which would allow CalMan to control the player, you will have to step through the patterns manually using the remote. But all is not lost; you can use the PC Client as a pattern generator for more of an automated calibration.
post #1850 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonarchX View Post

I can't figure out the Source thingy... I have downloaded several pattern discs and I burnt them onto a DVD. But how do I get CalMAN 5 to read from my DVD Drive on my PC? My HDTV is connected to my PC that runs CalMAN 5. I would like to use my DVD Drive as the source for patterns. How do I do it? I also purchased CalPC. My CalMAN 5 license is the Control one.

It makes it so complicated with this pattern source, asking for some IR devices.... I just have my good old DVD Drive and Windows 7!

HTPCs are extremely complicated, and not directly supported.

If you want to calibrate the PC as a PC, CalMAN RGB can do that. But it's designed to calibrate at PC levels and does all it's gamut adjustments via ICC. If you have a deep understanding about how video levels and PC levels work, you can use CalMAN Client 3 to automate a calibration. But you'll need a bit of experience and a reference source for comparison to understand exactly what your PC is doing before you can do so.

If you run CalMAN itself on the HTPC, the built-in pattern window will expand to the current desktop levels. This works well for most default configurations.
post #1851 of 2247
I don't think they are extremely complicated. PC levels are 0-255 and Video levels are 16-235. I made sure that everything is set to 0-255. I had to edit registry for nVidia drivers to force 0-255 over HDMI. My HDTV is also set to use Normal black level (0-255). If it was set incorrectly, then my blacks would either be crushed or the picture would seem washed out, but that is not the case. I use http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php which tests 0-255 range for black & white levels.

I figured out how to use the Source thing. It was confusing as I couldn't select my DVD drive from any list, but after reading CalMAN v5 manual, I got it figured out and it was reading patterns not even from a DVD drive, but from a virtual drive I created using Daemon Tools, using AVCHD .iso image. A little window appeared and generated patterns for all CalMAN v5 needs.

And it it is stupid to advice to use ICC profiles because games reset them completely!!! A real HTPC can be used for both - media and games! I want to see my games the way they were designed to be seen - using D65 standard! You need to use TV hardware calibration controls, often through service menus, to achieve proper color space, RGB WB, gamma, brightness, contrast, etc. No amount of software will make up for true hardware controls & calibrations. Now that I finally learned how to use CalMAN, I found that it provided readings similar to those from the latest HCFR - all WB and color space errors are within deltae E of 2. The only issue I have is that while luminance gamma curve is excellent, red and blue gamma curves are way off. However, I discussed that in another thread and it appears that as long as luminance gamma and RGB WB are accurate, inaccurate blue and red gamma do not affect the picture.

The only other thing that can complicate things is that you have to play around with PC Mode. PC Mode was designed specifically for PCs and often uses RGB/4:4:4 but such a mode also uses a "pass-through" method, which ignores hardware-set color space as it reads it from videocard LUT, but it does read hardware-set RGB WB. On my HDTV, that is the case in PC Mode @ 60Hz, BUT @ 23-24Hz it switches to 4:2:2 and uses hardware-set color space & all other service menu adjustments. MPC-HC and madVR are set to use 23.976Hz when playing HD media. I cannot be bothered with calibrating for SD media...

Is there something that I missed?
Edited by MonarchX - 11/12/13 at 7:50am
post #1852 of 2247
What Sotti means is that using an HTPC is more complicated for calibration purposes than just a difference in video levels. As you yourself have seen, individual applications can use or not use ICC profles, making that particular calibration route essentially pointless for HTPC use. Consumer displays such as your Samsung can react very differently when fed RGB in a PC signal, RGB in a consumer electronics (CE) format (such as out of a standalone DVD or Blu Ray player), and YCbCr. Add in differences between video card makers such as those you have complained about here, and the fact that a driver update can change a card's response in one or more areas without the user being aware of it. Player software and how it handles output-particularly of computer-based digital formats such as MP4, DiVX, etc.-also makes a difference. If you don't know how your player software is processing your MP4 format calibration patterns, how can you trust its output to be accurate? This issue also comes up with streaming media players.

There is a lot more to it than there is to using off-the-shelf CE sources with CE displays.
Edited by Rolls-Royce - 11/12/13 at 9:20am
post #1853 of 2247
New Calman 5.2.0a now available Build #1374

http://store.spectracal.com/calman5/download
post #1854 of 2247
I just started using the new version of CalMan to calibrate my Duo with an i1 Pro spectro. The problem I have is I can't get through an autocal calibration without the software locking up. The indicators on the top show that the problem doesn't seem to be the meter. The process locks up when sending a signal either to switch patterns or when writing to the Duo. When it happens I am not able to do anything within the program.

I can power cycle the Duo and restart the computer and begin again, but same issue. If the problem occurs when writing to the Duo then I lose data. When it happens changing patterns I can go back to where I left off and move forward in the calibration.

Any suggestions on what may be causing the issue?

Another Duo related question...I don't seem to be getting BTB. Is there a setting in the Duo that will pass the info?

B.
post #1855 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

I just started using the new version of CalMan to calibrate my Duo with an i1 Pro spectro. The problem I have is I can't get through an autocal calibration without the software locking up. The indicators on the top show that the problem doesn't seem to be the meter. The process locks up when sending a signal either to switch patterns or when writing to the Duo. When it happens I am not able to do anything within the program.

I can power cycle the Duo and restart the computer and begin again, but same issue. If the problem occurs when writing to the Duo then I lose data. When it happens changing patterns I can go back to where I left off and move forward in the calibration.

Any suggestions on what may be causing the issue?

Another Duo related question...I don't seem to be getting BTB. Is there a setting in the Duo that will pass the info?

B.

Check that you Com Port Speed matches the Duo's - namely 19,200. Plus check the other Com Port specs are correct.
post #1856 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Check that you Com Port Speed matches the Duo's - namely 19,200. Plus check the other Com Port specs are correct.

Duo is set to 19,200 and CalMan automatically sets to that speed. What other Com Port options are you thinking? The port is correct otherwise it wouldn't communicate at all.

B.
post #1857 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B View Post

Duo is set to 19,200 and CalMan automatically sets to that speed. What other Com Port options are you thinking? The port is correct otherwise it wouldn't communicate at all.

B.

I suspect a bad RS-232 cable.
post #1858 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

I suspect a bad RS-232 cable.

Using a USB cable to a convertor--no separate RS232 cable. I know some converters are finickly, but I've used this one in multiple applications and it seems to work fine--Xantech, URC, Anthem, etc.

B.
post #1859 of 2247
What do CalMAN developers/calibrators advice regarding getting saturation sweeps @ 75% as accurate as possible without caring much for 100% saturation sweep accuracy? I hate to re-post in a different thread, but maybe I should have asked here to begin with!

I followed the advice of calibrating Rec.709 (75%) to the lowest possible 75% saturation sweep dE. That cost me having 100% saturation sweeps reaching as far as dE 5.

If I try to lower 100% saturation dE, some 75% saturation sweeps dE increase from 0.5 to 3! Is it worth it though? Some say to get them all under the green line and others say that 100% saturations are less important and you should try to get the lowest dE for 75% saturation sweeps.

My TV is a Samsung LCD CCFL HDTV from 2009.

Below are the two versions of CalMAN v5 results.

1. Calibrating to achieve the lowest dE for 75% saturation sweeps:

Colorspace


Saturation Sweeps


ColorChecker


2. Calibrating to achieve the lowest dE for all saturation sweeps:

Colorspace


Saturation Sweeps


ColorChecker


Which calibration would you go with? 1 or 2? Notice the cost of reducing green 100% saturation - much higher 75% saturation dE!

I cannot do any better than the two above using hardware service menu calibration.

This is NOT 3DLUT related, which I will apply on top of the calibration I chose.
post #1860 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Check that you Com Port Speed matches the Duo's - namely 19,200. Plus check the other Com Port specs are correct.

Would upgrading to 2.4 or 2.41 make a difference?

B.
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