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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 11

post #301 of 2247
2 more bugs:

> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and then load another workflow template (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will keep reading although you are not even on the screen anymore where you could stop the read... it will just keep on reading and reading...

> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and the press "read series" button (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will start a series read while SIMULTANEOUSLY doing a continuous read...


...
post #302 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

The commit is only on the cube page because none of the other DDC controls need a commit.
There is a bug in RC3 where the incrementer decrementers adjust the value, but don't actually cause the display to be updated.

Hi Joel,

I am confused by the 'commit' button.

Is its purpose to be pressed when every adjustment is made or is it reserved for specific situations?

If not all situations perhaps it could be 'grayed out' if not required?
post #303 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

2 more bugs:
> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and then load another workflow template (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will keep reading although you are not even on the screen anymore where you could stop the read... it will just keep on reading and reading...
> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and the press "read series" button (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will start a series read while SIMULTANEOUSLY doing a continuous read...
...

The Meter Stop command is not being generated when clicking the Read Single, All or Continuous buttons. I would assume this will be fixed in a future release. A workaround is click the Stop All button before changing to a different read or add the Stop command to each of the buttons.

As far as the other issue I would think all activity would be manually stopped before loading a different workflow or exiting the program. I wouldn't really consider this behavior a bug.
post #304 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by PE06MCG View Post

Hi Joel,
I am confused by the 'commit' button.
Is its purpose to be pressed when every adjustment is made or is it reserved for specific situations?
If not all situations perhaps it could be 'grayed out' if not required?

It's removed when it's not required
If you see it, you need to use it (All 3D LUTs).
post #305 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

2 more bugs:
> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and then load another workflow template (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will keep reading although you are not even on the screen anymore where you could stop the read... it will just keep on reading and reading...
> if u press the "continuous read" button on a screen and the press "read series" button (w/o manually clicking the stop button to stop the continuous read) it will start a series read while SIMULTANEOUSLY doing a continuous read...
...

Both cases should be resolvable with a little code.
post #306 of 2247
Hello,

I'm a newbie to this...I got the Calman5 Enthusiast with C6 meter last week, but I can't figure out how to get it to auto calibrate with the Sharp Elite. The software sees the Meter and the TV, but I have not been able to get some sort of pattern generated for the meter to see on the TV for it to autocal. I'm seen the videos for the Calman DIY on youtube and it does not look remotely familiar. What am I going wrong? Please help. Thanks!
post #307 of 2247
You either need a test pattern generator, orneed to use test patterns played on your DVD/BluRay player. You can download for free the AVS 709 test patterns and burn them to a DVD. If you use your DVD/BluRay player, then you will have to manually change to the correct test pattern when prompted.
post #308 of 2247
Hello,
I am trying to calibrate a Samsung PN -64-D8000 3D Plasma. Can someone tell me based on the (CMS) systems it has, if I use HSL or xyY adjustments in Calman? If I understood this correctly I believe I would use the xyY adjustments. Am I correct?
If so, I assume x = Hue y= Saturation Y= Luminance. Here is the link to HT mag review by Tom Norton, with the sets (CMS) capabilities. I copied the chart below......it looks like the set DOES NOT have HSL adjustments. but a xyY, is this correct?

http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-pn59d8000-3d-plasma-hdtv-settings

If I am right here (big IF LOL), I assume I would use the chart below the CIE chart in Calman. (the one that has the x,y,Y and Target x,y,Y) to read the results as I select a particular color and then make the adjustments on the TV's CMS menu to get x, y, Y as close to Target as possible and get the Gamut Luminance chart as close to 0 as possible for all colors. Is this correct?

*Custom Color Space
R G B Y C M
Red 39 26 3 55 28 50
Green 6 46 6 50 50 12
Blue 5 0 40 5 56 80

Can someone let me know if I am correct here in my train of thought?


Thanks

Paul
post #309 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maison View Post

Hello,
I'm a newbie to this...I got the Calman5 Enthusiast with C6 meter last week, but I can't figure out how to get it to auto calibrate with the Sharp Elite. The software sees the Meter and the TV, but I have not been able to get some sort of pattern generated for the meter to see on the TV for it to autocal. I'm seen the videos for the Calman DIY on youtube and it does not look remotely familiar. What am I going wrong? Please help. Thanks!

If you connect your PC with HDMI to your TV you can choose in the "Generic Calibration DVD"-Tab the button "Open Pattern Window", then there is a pattern window. The best is if your video card has the option for an extended screen, so you can place the pattern windows alone on your TV screen and the program runs on your PC monitor.

Sorry for my English, perhaps an US member can explained it better.
post #310 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredman2005 View Post

If you connect your PC with HDMI to your TV you can choose in the "Generic Calibration DVD"-Tab the button "Open Pattern Window", then there is a pattern window. The best is if your video card has the option for an extended screen, so you can place the pattern windows alone on your TV screen and the program runs on your PC monitor.
Sorry for my English, perhaps an US member can explained it better.

Alternatively you could use a pattern disc like the AVS rec.709 disc or the GCD disc.

On the pattern source tab you can check, prompt for patterns, and we can walk you through the patterns you need for autocal.
post #311 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Hello,
I am trying to calibrate a Samsung PN -64-D8000 3D Plasma. Can someone tell me based on the (CMS) systems it has, if I use HSL or xyY adjustments in Calman? If I understood this correctly I believe I would use the xyY adjustments. Am I correct?
If so, I assume x = Hue y= Saturation Y= Luminance. Here is the link to HT mag review by Tom Norton, with the sets (CMS) capabilities. I copied the chart below......it looks like the set DOES NOT have HSL adjustments. but a xyY, is this correct?
http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-pn59d8000-3d-plasma-hdtv-settings
If I am right here (big IF LOL), I assume I would use the chart below the CIE chart in Calman. (the one that has the x,y,Y and Target x,y,Y) to read the results as I select a particular color and then make the adjustments on the TV's CMS menu to get x, y, Y as close to Target as possible and get the Gamut Luminance chart as close to 0 as possible for all colors. Is this correct?
*Custom Color Space
R G B Y C M
Red 39 26 3 55 28 50
Green 6 46 6 50 50 12
Blue 5 0 40 5 56 80
Can someone let me know if I am correct here in my train of thought?

Thanks
Paul

Can someone help me on this?

Thanks again

Paul
post #312 of 2247
Paul,

That looks like RGB adjustments.
post #313 of 2247
First time AutoCal in Calman 5RC3a:
Definitely an improvement over 4. Right now giving a B+ for the Greyscale, and an A for CMS.
I assume there is a tighter value I can set the calibration to - will check the settings tonight.
Greyscale got a B+ because after 6 Autocals - Greyscale looked like Madonna's Pointy Things still. I again assume I can tweat the values in the iScan Duo to flatten the line? For some reason or other, 100IRE kept getting different results with each and every Autocal. (Set was previously calibrated manually - 2 and 10 Point, plus White Balances set to LGs Specs.)
CMS got an A because now it's calibrating with Colour, Tint and Hue, versus LG only giving me Colour and Tint.
Green, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow results were almost at Zero. Red halfway to the 3% line, and Blue over the 3% line, despite 4 Autocals.
Interestingly, turning the Darbee ON, all the Colours stayed more of less the same, but Blue now came down below the 3% line.
What I find annoys me, both in the previous 4, and now 5, Autocal will have the value on the Zero line, then do a couple of clicks more, and now is either somewhat close, or further away from the Zero line!
post #314 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by hidefpaul View Post

Hello,
I am trying to calibrate a Samsung PN -64-D8000 3D Plasma. Can someone tell me based on the (CMS) systems it has, if I use HSL or xyY adjustments in Calman? If I understood this correctly I believe I would use the xyY adjustments. Am I correct?
If so, I assume x = Hue y= Saturation Y= Luminance. Here is the link to HT mag review by Tom Norton, with the sets (CMS) capabilities. I copied the chart below......it looks like the set DOES NOT have HSL adjustments. but a xyY, is this correct?
http://www.hometheater.com/content/samsung-pn59d8000-3d-plasma-hdtv-settings
If I am right here (big IF LOL), I assume I would use the chart below the CIE chart in Calman. (the one that has the x,y,Y and Target x,y,Y) to read the results as I select a particular color and then make the adjustments on the TV's CMS menu to get x, y, Y as close to Target as possible and get the Gamut Luminance chart as close to 0 as possible for all colors. Is this correct?
*Custom Color Space
R G B Y C M
Red 39 26 3 55 28 50
Green 6 46 6 50 50 12
Blue 5 0 40 5 56 80
Can someone let me know if I am correct here in my train of thought?
Thanks
Paul

I called up the support team at SpectraCal, I got it all sorted out.

Paul
post #315 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Alternatively you could use a pattern disc like the AVS rec.709 disc or the GCD disc.
On the pattern source tab you can check, prompt for patterns, and we can walk you through the patterns you need for autocal.


Are the patterns from the internal pattern windows as useable as that from external disc or are there any drops in quality?
post #316 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredman2005 View Post

Are the patterns from the internal pattern windows as useable as that from external disc or are there any drops in quality?

PC output can be really tricky.

The levels can get remapped, which can be a huge issue for autocal, some PC's also have bugs in their encoder/decoders so their output can have a slight tint to it.

But this is all dependent on your computer.

If in doubt just measure once with your player and once with your computer and compare the differences.
post #317 of 2247
Thanks, I will take care of that.
post #318 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

First time AutoCal in Calman 5RC3a:
Definitely an improvement over 4. Right now giving a B+ for the Greyscale, and an A for CMS.
I assume there is a tighter value I can set the calibration to - will check the settings tonight.
Greyscale got a B+ because after 6 Autocals - Greyscale looked like Madonna's Pointy Things still. I again assume I can tweat the values in the iScan Duo to flatten the line? For some reason or other, 100IRE kept getting different results with each and every Autocal. (Set was previously calibrated manually - 2 and 10 Point, plus White Balances set to LGs Specs.)
CMS got an A because now it's calibrating with Colour, Tint and Hue, versus LG only giving me Colour and Tint.
Green, Cyan, Magenta and Yellow results were almost at Zero. Red halfway to the 3% line, and Blue over the 3% line, despite 4 Autocals.
Interestingly, turning the Darbee ON, all the Colours stayed more of less the same, but Blue now came down below the 3% line.
What I find annoys me, both in the previous 4, and now 5, Autocal will have the value on the Zero line, then do a couple of clicks more, and now is either somewhat close, or further away from the Zero line!

Appendum: Due to the idiosyncrasies of electronics, I find it Best to do AutoCal immediately after doing the Manual 2 and 10 Point, plus CMS Calibrations.
Doing AutoCal the next day, does not give as good results.
Have opted for the Advanced Calibration Workflow, versus Enthusiast, due to Enthusiast missing the 2 Point Calibration Menu Feature.
So my Calibration consists of doing the Manual 2 and 10 Point Calibrations, followed by the following Autocal routine:
2 Point, 2 X Autocal 10 Point (*), 2 Point, 2 X Autocal 10 Point, 2 X CMS. Back to 2 Point, 2 X 10 Point, 2 X CMS - Finished.
* - Due to AutoCal liking to insert Spikes periodically, will sometimes end up re-doing X3s, and odd time 4Xs. (During AutoCal, Meter will keep
clicking away, with Red, Green and Blue, near or at the 0 Point.(Absolute for 10 Point) When it's finished, before moving to the next IRE Point
in it's agenda, it will give either a R, G or B spike that's no longer at the 0 Point. Most often it's the Blue, less often Red and Green.
Sometimes as far away from 0 as being +/- 10! (Why is this?)) Re-reading that particular IRE Point afterwards, the same spike is still there!
Problems involving 100IRE not being consistant, both in Manual and in AutoCal, constantly causes the rest of the IREs to have to be re-calibrated.
(Again idiosyncrasies of the TV's Electronics? And Yes, I do realize after each 10 Point Calibration, the 100IRE values will change, just not
that much, worse with AutoCal versus Manual!)
Notes: Depending on how you run your system, 2 Point with 10 Point Calibrated, or 10 Point with 2 Point calibrated, if using the latter, one
must always remember to switch back to the TV's Menu of 10 Point during the switch back and forth from the 2 to 10 Point Calibrations. (Elsewise
you end up with different results - try it sometime - do a 10 Point reading with TV Menu on 2 Point, then the Menu on 10 Point -
a different chart will result.)
My LG 55LHX has a Darbee in line from my iScan Duo to my LG 55LHX. Found a more precise CMS AutoCal calibration with the Darbee sitting at
my Normal setting. Before Calibration found the Max I could go was HD50 to 60%. Afterwards - 80%, but for long time viewing - now at 70%.
Did my last Calibration set to 70%. Also found after calibrating without the Darbee (Completely Removed), inserting the Darbee after, then
taking a complete reading, my results showed a somewhat elevated Red level. So I now leave the Darbee in during the whole calibration proceedure
post #319 of 2247
^^^^

I sent my Darbee back because of it messing with my Luma and Chrome of my VT50. Also found that the Darbee with my VT50/Mini and doing a 21 Point gray scale and a 3D LUT 125 point CSM the Darbee didn't help anything. Take note about the Darbee, my conclusions are for my rig, so yours may very.

I have tried setting the 2 Point 30/100 manually and found that it may help the outcome, but you have to be very careful of not setting your R,G,B values to high or two low. So be warned the 2 point gray scale can be misleading.

ss
post #320 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

PC output can be really tricky.
The levels can get remapped, which can be a huge issue for autocal, some PC's also have bugs in their encoder/decoders so their output can have a slight tint to it.
But this is all dependent on your computer.
If in doubt just measure once with your player and once with your computer and compare the differences.

Ya and also don't think that using a USB adapter (even if it seems to be working) from your laptop to your RadianceMini 3D is really working properly.

I have used two different USB adapters, with one the results at first were good and then things went bad, the second one seems to be working ok but I have only used it once.
That said I have a older laptop (XP, 2.5 intell dual, 4 gigs ram.) and have a RS 232 port in it so I can do a direct connect to my Mini. So far I am finding the results to be even better than my other new laptop with the USB adapter, all be it slower.

I have got Calman's USB adapter coming so I can compare the results.

ss
post #321 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I have got Calman's USB adapter coming so I can compare the results.

Yes the FTDI USB to RS232 adapter we sell from Digikey cost a bit more but has been extensively tested on all platforms without issue. A few dollar more for a lot less headache. We do include this adapter in all processors we sell as part of our value add.
post #322 of 2247
I spent an hour or so Saturday and Sunday trying out CalMan5.0.3 RC4. I like the interface much better than CalMan4 but I ran into some workflow problems.

I have a JVC DLA-X30 projector which I was able to communicate with on the second USB to Serial adapter I tried. DDC works as does the internal test patterns. Those are great features. The probe is a i1d3 retail.

The issues I had were:

The JVC X-30 has only a 2 point grey scale calibration but my choices in the DDC section were 11 and 21 step only. Some ..mismatch error message popped up when I tried to autocal grey scale using 30/80.

Also the X-30 (and RS45) don't have full CMS, so those sections in the workflow need to be skipped but it did allow and ran an autocal for CMS which as expected did nothing.

When I first ran the software and tried to take the first baseline 100 white ftL reading the pc bluescreened and rebooted. Never happened again, just that first time. In my last attempt today the app stopped responding doing a read series at the end of the workflow just before where you'd make a final report.

The color temp and ftL readings I got with this version are different by about 500k and 3ftL from my last use of CalMan4, not sure if this is app related, or just lamp changes in last 90 or so hours.

I'll try again with the next software revision I guess.
post #323 of 2247
Try using the Advanced Work Flow that has the 2 Point Workflow Screen. Here you can do either 30/80. or 30/100 in the selection window. Also it's in Bar Mode, so easier to read. (Unfortunately, you have to keep going through the Tutorial first, before getting to the Advanced Work Flow. (Still working on this one on how to go directly to the Advanced Work Flow))
Error caused by AutoCal since it's only able to do 11 or 21 Points, not 2.
post #324 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Error caused by AutoCal since it's only able to do 11 or 21 Points, not 2.

From the main menu you can just select open workflow and then select advanced, or any other workflow we ship.
post #325 of 2247
I've been using HCFR but Calman 5 is definitely more user friendly for the novice calibrator. I'm trying to decide if HT basic would be all I need or if I should consider a Control or Enthusiast license. My main display is a Panasonic UT50 and only has 2 pt white balance adjustment and nothing for gamma except which picture mode is used. I'm not sure how Control or Enthusiast would help other than if I rented or bought an i1 Pro to calibrate my Display Pro. But it is brand new so I'm working with the assumption it's pretty accurate. Also, is there somewhere I can learn more about tweaking a calibration? I've gone through the Curpalme HCFR Greyscale Tutorial written by Kal, but I've still got questions how where and how I can make adjustments. Is there somewhere that service menu manuals are available? I noticed with the new firmware update that by going into the SM (the only way to adjust WB on the UT50) the screen automatically overscans, I don't know if this can be changed while still in the service menu. I also don't know what I would calibrate for 3D, either, if my TV has that option. I was kind of thinking WB would be done in 2D mode and just brightness and contrast would be done in 3D mode with glasses on. I know half of my post is related to Calman and the other half my TV, but any help would be really appreciated.biggrin.gif
post #326 of 2247
If you only can do a two point grayscale and need to adjust your brightness and contrast.
Then imo I would stay with what you are already using. You will need a calibration disc to run from your Blu Ray player, you can download a free disc and burn it to a DVD.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

You are better off using a disc like AVSHD for setting your brightness and contrast, your meter and HCFR and AVSHD for your two point calibration. If you want a hand holding calibration software then the base Calman or ChromaPure imo is the way to go.

Yes there is a much better way to do a full blown 3D LUT 125 point cube/21 point grayscale calibration but that would cost you more than you paid for your UT50.

ss
post #327 of 2247
Thanks, Sally. Yeah, I'm using the Rec 709 disc with HCFR and I did improve the picture, but since it's so limited I didn't think there's much more I can do. The picture is stunning though. PathofNeo on the UT50 discussion forum shared D-Nice's calibration and it's amazing, he really is a perfectionist. I don't think I can achieve that level of calibration with an out of the box i1 Display Pro, but I think there's still some tweaking room. I think I may be to the point, since I'm a true novice at this, is to try some different settings, take greyscale readings, and see how they compare. I understand the concepts of achieving .313, .329 for D65 but I'm a little fuzzy with what should be the perfect brightness and contrast. I am using Calman for eval purposes, but still not sure if it will make a difference. Thanks for you post. smile.gif
post #328 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Thanks, Sally. Yeah, I'm using the Rec 709 disc with HCFR and I did improve the picture, but since it's so limited I didn't think there's much more I can do. The picture is stunning though. PathofNeo on the UT50 discussion forum shared D-Nice's calibration and it's amazing, he really is a perfectionist. I don't think I can achieve that level of calibration with an out of the box i1 Display Pro, but I think there's still some tweaking room. I think I may be to the point, since I'm a true novice at this, is to try some different settings, take greyscale readings, and see how they compare. I understand the concepts of achieving .313, .329 for D65 but I'm a little fuzzy with what should be the perfect brightness and contrast. I am using Calman for eval purposes, but still not sure if it will make a difference. Thanks for you post. smile.gif

the dynamic range tool in CalMAN 5 helps you zero in on the ideal contrast setting... if you are looking at CalMAN 5, consider Control or Enthusiast... Basic lacks many useful features and has more limited meter support. Also, even if you have two point grayscale only, you still want to measure gray in 10% steps from black to white and minimize overall color error (gamma can't be changed on your set though). You can also set color/tint properly with a meter in CalMAN easily.
post #329 of 2247
Thanks Plasma, for your other post, too. So the useful features you speak of would be beneficial for me? I'm sorry for feeling like I'm asking a stupid/basic question but I have no experience with Calman software except reading through the work flows last night. Could you give an example of two if the useful features? I'm glad to hear it's easy to set color and tint with Calman, though. I wasn't quite sure what to do with HCFR except either look at where the x,z points with a continuous reading or by how the CIE diagram looked. Also, I was wondering if I go through a work flow and I'm not sure if I can achieve better results, does the software have good information or help that would give me an idea on how to improve my current calibration, if at all possible? Or would that just be the purpose of Delta-E at each IRE? I really appreciate your help.
post #330 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Thanks Plasma, for your other post, too. So the useful features you speak of would be beneficial for me? I'm sorry for feeling like I'm asking a stupid/basic question but I have no experience with Calman software except reading through the work flows last night. Could you give an example of two if the useful features? I'm glad to hear it's easy to set color and tint with Calman, though. I wasn't quite sure what to do with HCFR except either look at where the x,z points with a continuous reading or by how the CIE diagram looked. Also, I was wondering if I go through a work flow and I'm not sure if I can achieve better results, does the software have good information or help that would give me an idea on how to improve my current calibration, if at all possible? Or would that just be the purpose of Delta-E at each IRE? I really appreciate your help.

I'm trying to look into the specific details, but here's a general overview:

http://store.spectracal.com/calman5/licenses
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