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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 14

post #391 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

sotti,
not sure if I understand this correctly since the readings for reference and target meter are not done at the same time... can you elaborate on this ?
Thanks.
- M

If you do single pass we do read both at the same time.

CalMAN under the hood can handle automating many meters and many pattern generators at the same time, we just don't expose this in the main UI since it would result in more confusion than benefit.
post #392 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

When profiling with 3D glasses, should I also have the glasses on the C6 and I1Pro 2 or just the I1pro 2.
When I use the 3D glasses on both the I1pro 2 and the C6, a warning pups up and says something like the profile is out of Calman's suggested range.
ss

Just use the glasses on the i1Pro2. That's your reference, through the glasses.

The target, the C6, doesn't need to read through the glasses. It will be corrected with the reference data so it reads just like the reference meter did through the glasses.
post #393 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If you do single pass we do read both at the same time.
CalMAN under the hood can handle automating many meters and many pattern generators at the same time, we just don't expose this in the main UI since it would result in more confusion than benefit.

got ya, yeah I only do multi-pass and it seems that these are done one after another...

Thanks.
post #394 of 2247
Pre-meter calibration setups, re Contrast, Brightness, Colour and Tint - currently in a disagreement with Disney re their WOW Blu-ray calibration DVD. I currently pre-calibrate using the AVS 709 Blu-ray.
In tests done on my set tonight, I found S&M, and AVS 709, almost in total agreement. Disney WOW reading too high, with discrepancies between their Basic and Advanced results, and to the AVS 709 and S&M. Calman 5, with the AutoCal from the iScan Duo is giving me the Best PQ I've ever seen on my sets. Just wondering if anyone else has seen these discrepancies on their systems between the for mentioned 3 DVDs? And which of the above do you use?

October 19, 2012: Contrast. Brightness, Colour, Tint Tests

>>>>>>AVS 709 WOW S&M
>>>>>>Blu-ray >> B A

Contrast>>>82 90 99 84
Brightness>>50 50 54 50
Colour>>>>>51 51 51 51
Tint>>>>>>> 0 0 0 0

B - Basic A - Advanced

(I'm afraid I don't like the Patterns on the iScan Duo for the Brightness and Contrast.)
Edited by p5browne - 10/20/12 at 6:53am
post #395 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

got ya, yeah I only do multi-pass and it seems that these are done one after another...
Thanks.

Correct, multi-pass uses sequential readings, and for that you want them reading the same area.
post #396 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Just use the glasses on the i1Pro2. That's your reference, through the glasses.
The target, the C6, doesn't need to read through the glasses. It will be corrected with the reference data so it reads just like the reference meter did through the glasses.

That is a very nice plus not to have to use the glasses on the C6 when doing a calibration.

I have done a (2D) 3D LUT 125 point CMS and 21 point gray scale. Anyway I liked what I was seeing in both the color patterns and gray scale patterns, still have to watch some reference material to see how the calibration came out.

Seems like the C6 and Calman play well together.

ss
post #397 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Seems like the C6 and Calman play well together.

It is the meter that we use most for our in-house testing.

We do run through a whole lot of hardware during testing including most of the popular consumer meters. But most of the development work for both our software guys and workflow guys use C6s.
post #398 of 2247
Re Profiling: Someone mentioned the Side by Side is the quick and dirty way of doing things. I assume this is for On the Panel calibration?
I use a tripod due to the differences going across the panel, and about 18" out from the panel. I've been doing the one pass to do my profiling, just holding the i1Pro right beside the C6 as it profiles. I assume this is an OK way to do this since I'm Off Panel? Calibrations come out OK, and comparing results between the 2 Meters afterwards, virtually see no differences.
post #399 of 2247
I was wondering about HTPC calibration now that I have my TV calibrated I was wondering if I could be better results if I watched movies off my PC connected to TV? I know the the color gamut is limited to my PC, but I was wondering if a PC could produce better gamma and multi-point white balance to make the picture more accurate by using the PC as a video processor. Is doing this really complicated or will the software make it fairly simple?
post #400 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

I was wondering about HTPC calibration now that I have my TV calibrated I was wondering if I could be better results if I watched movies off my PC connected to TV? I know the the color gamut is limited to my PC, but I was wondering if a PC could produce better gamma and multi-point white balance to make the picture more accurate by using the PC as a video processor. Is doing this really complicated or will the software make it fairly simple?

Yes you can install the PC client and AutoCal the HTPC.

Just make sure you change the workflow over to use PC range.
post #401 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It is the meter that we use most for our in-house testing.
We do run through a whole lot of hardware during testing including most of the popular consumer meters. But most of the development work for both our software guys and workflow guys use C6s.

Did a 3D calibration last night following your how to profile my I1pro 2 and C6 for this type of calibration. Using Calmans 3D LUT 125 cube/21 point GS, the results are the best I have seen using my profiled G6 (no glasses required for calibration), I was using Avatar 3D movie as my source marital.

Comparing my before and after (3D LUT 125 cms) gray scale, the GS stayed about the same (this is a good thing). Before I was using my I1pro 2 the GS would shift a lot (bad thing) after the 3D LUT calibration.
The 3D LUT process took about 39 minutes.

I will be playing with profiling and 3D LUT cube calibrations over the next month or so, just to make sure I didn't get very lucky with this last calibration. wink.gif

Thanks for your help.

ss
post #402 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Pre-meter calibration setups, re Contrast, Brightness, Colour and Tint - currently in a disagreement with Disney re their WOW Blu-ray calibration DVD. I currently pre-calibrate using the AVS 709 Blu-ray.
In tests done on my set tonight, I found S&M, and AVS 709, almost in total agreement. Disney WOW reading too high, with discrepancies between their Basic and Advanced results, and to the AVS 709 and S&M. Calman 5, with the AutoCal from the iScan Duo is giving me the Best PQ I've ever seen on my sets. Just wondering if anyone else has seen these discrepancies on their systems between the for mentioned 3 DVDs? And which of the above do you use?
October 19, 2012: Contrast. Brightness, Colour, Tint Tests
>>>>>>AVS 709 WOW S&M
>>>>>>Blu-ray >> B A
Contrast>>>82 90 99 84
Brightness>>50 50 54 50
Colour>>>>>51 51 51 51
Tint>>>>>>> 0 0 0 0
B - Basic A - Advanced
(I'm afraid I don't like the Patterns on the iScan Duo for the Brightness and Contrast.)

Questioned answered from Spears and Munsil:

Hi Peter,

I believe the WOW patterns have you set contrast so that you clip at 235. AVS and S&M have you clip at 254, so contrast will be lower. We believe in preserving head room.

So, it depends whether you're conservative, or liberal in your calibration pre-meter calibrations.
post #403 of 2247
I'm having some trouble with the direct control with my PC Client. I've specified the PC Client for test patterns and display type, but when I use read series, the test windows are not always the same size. If I specify 18% or 25% windows size, sometimes it will show that for certain IREs and sometimes will will use full window. This is making the results look wrong. I'm also not sure how to do an autocal, is there a workflow for it or do I just use a template workflow and just tell it 0-255?
post #404 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Tried this again with the 1.2b disc from the Spectracal website. I still end up in the ColorHFCR patterns. Doing a Grayscale autocal, the first pattern is fine, but after that disc goes to the wrong patterns.
These are the steps I follow:
Connect i1pro rev d.
Put 1.2b disc in my Panasonic Blu Ray player
In the TV Menus go to Custom > Pro Settings > Red Button.
Start Calman 5 RC2
Set the Disc to the Top Menu, the one with the 709 logo on the screen
Initialize my i1pro
Go to Grayscale
Start Autocal.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Has this been fixed in RC3?

Thanks!
post #405 of 2247
I've just had a go at calibrating my Samsung LCD tv, it has a CCFL backlight. I've got an i1Pro and a C6, I've profiled the C6 to the i1Pro, and using a Radiance as source and calibration. What I'm finding strange is that readings aren't consistent when reading the same test pattern, eg 100% white. I'm finding if I keep pressing the single read button, the result isn't consistent, with either meter. The luminance is fluctuating alot, and colour to a lesser degree. I'm selecting the correct meter reading mode, CCFL LCD Direct view, and the meter is very close to the centre of the screen.

Is it something I'm not setting correctly? I'd have thought that at 100% white it would provide consistent readings.
post #406 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by robnix View Post

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong here? Has this been fixed in RC3?
Thanks!

Unless you can control your Blu Ray player with IR you can't use autocal to change your patterns on a calibration disc. You have to use your disc player's remote and change manually.
Plus you may want to use the prompt command in the Calman setup. This way you can change the pattern to what the prompt is saying and then press ok, this way autocal will not get ahead of the patterns.

ss
post #407 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatjulio View Post

I've just had a go at calibrating my Samsung LCD tv, it has a CCFL backlight. I've got an i1Pro and a C6, I've profiled the C6 to the i1Pro, and using a Radiance as source and calibration. What I'm finding strange is that readings aren't consistent when reading the same test pattern, eg 100% white. I'm finding if I keep pressing the single read button, the result isn't consistent, with either meter. The luminance is fluctuating alot, and colour to a lesser degree. I'm selecting the correct meter reading mode, CCFL LCD Direct view, and the meter is very close to the centre of the screen.
Is it something I'm not setting correctly? I'd have thought that at 100% white it would provide consistent readings.

Over the last several years, have been doing On Panel Calibrations. After doing readings every 6" going across the Panel, and finding no two readings the same, have now mounted my Meter on a tripod stationed 18" away from the Panel, to get a more Average reading. This greatly reduced the fluttering readings. Just a suggestion that you may want to consider.
Edited by p5browne - 10/22/12 at 7:23am
post #408 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Over the last several years, have been doing On Panel Calibrations. After doing readings every 6" going across the Panel, and finding no two readings the same, have now mounted my Meter on a tripod stationed 18" away fron the Panel, to get a more Average reading. This greatly reduced the fluttering readings. Just a suggestion that you may want to consider.

That is my preferred method with this type of display as well. Lack of screen uniformity seems to be as big a problem with CCFL as with edge lit LED. I use a non reflecting black fitted sheet I bought for about fifteen bucks to keep external light off the screen and I've been having good luck.

If you're going to profile a meter, set up the same way you would with a front projection system. Aim for the exact center but make small meter movements until you read maximum light output. Do the same thing with the second meter and try to get that same luminance reading before doing the profile.
post #409 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Unless you can control your Blu Ray player with IR you can't use autocal to change your patterns on a calibration disc. You have to use your disc player's remote and change manually.
Plus you may want to use the prompt command in the Calman setup. This way you can change the pattern to what the prompt is saying and then press ok, this way autocal will not get ahead of the patterns.
ss

Thanks,

I have the USB-UIRT from my DPG-1000 to send the IR signal to my blu ray player. I run into the same issues trying to use the DPG-1000. I navigate to the starting spot that Calman recommends and it does not cycle through the correct patterns there either. I know that I can manually control the patterns, I've done that. I'd just rather be able to use a feature that I paid for with Calman 4.

So either I'm doing something wrong, or there's something wrong with the Autocal feature.
post #410 of 2247
USB-UIRT works fine with the DPG-2000 and RC4. I would suggest updating to that version if you have not already.
post #411 of 2247
I used my DPG-1200 and Calman 5 on my Daughter's LG without Pattern Problems. BUT, you have to make sure you're NOT using your TV's Remote Control at the same time Calman is telling the DPG to change Patterns! I'm used to it, and when I forget, I just start over again and leave the Remote alone until Calman finishes!
post #412 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by praz View Post

USB-UIRT works fine with the DPG-2000 and RC4. I would suggest updating to that version if you have not already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

I used my DPG-1200 and Calman 5 on my Daughter's LG without Pattern Problems. BUT, you have to make sure you're NOT using your TV's Remote Control at the same time Calman is telling the DPG to change Patterns! I'm used to it, and when I forget, I just start over again and leave the Remote alone until Calman finishes!

Thanks! I'll upgrade to RC4 by this weekend and try it with my DPG1000 again.

Rob
post #413 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

Too klunky with combo keys on laptops in the dark (remember we are in the dark), I like my suggestion better (sorry).

Agreed.
post #414 of 2247
I'm unable to find how to do auto cal with PC Client. I have the setup boxes right, but which / how do I set the workflow for it? Also, the generated windows are not always the same percentage of size.
post #415 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

Thx Joel
I put a call into yr sales team...Im checking into renting an i1pro so at least i have a reference to check against...Thx for your advice

Hey Joel
I should be getting the i1pro I rented from your company today or tomorrow, hopefully....
Anyway, can you provide a quick guide or link for a)setting up the i1pro for use and b) profiling the display pro using the i1pro.\
Also, Should i be using "small" windows in the APL section as opposed to "windows" section , and if so what settings do i change in Calman???
Thx in advance...
post #416 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

Hey Joel
I should be getting the i1pro I rented from your company today or tomorrow, hopefully....
Anyway, can you provide a quick guide or link for a)setting up the i1pro for use and b) profiling the display pro using the i1pro.\
Also, Should i be using "small" windows in the APL section as opposed to "windows" section , and if so what settings do i change in Calman???
Thx in advance...

If you want to use the APL patterns in CalMAN and you are manually flipping patterns, it's totally fine to simply substitute the patterns. I don't believe there is a way to automate it with our IR controller though.

As for profiling it's pretty straight forward, connect both meters, setup the i1 Pro, use it in contact mode on the panel, click "multi-pass" when it's done reading with the i1 Pro, remove it and setup the i1 Display Pro in as close to the same location as possible and read again.
post #417 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

I'm unable to find how to do auto cal with PC Client. I have the setup boxes right, but which / how do I set the workflow for it? Also, the generated windows are not always the same percentage of size.

Make sure you have the 2.2.1.18 client, some of the older releases have issues with CalMAN 5.

In the workflow properties you can switch from video to PC levels.

Many times in HTPC use, even though the computer thinks it's in PC levels the graphics driver is compressing the output to video levels without the OS knowing. So using PC levels is usually the correct setting.

Make sure you're connected as both source and display in CalMAN.

Once you're setup and everything is correct, it should just be a click of the autocal button.

Granted PC calibration can only do grayscale and gamma. Gamut is handled by and ICC profile, we don't have any PC specific workflows yet, so if you want to create an ICC profile you'll have to go into design mode and add one to the workflow.
post #418 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Make sure you have the 2.2.1.18 client, some of the older releases have issues with CalMAN 5.
In the workflow properties you can switch from video to PC levels.
Many times in HTPC use, even though the computer thinks it's in PC levels the graphics driver is compressing the output to video levels without the OS knowing. So using PC levels is usually the correct setting.
Make sure you're connected as both source and display in CalMAN.
Once you're setup and everything is correct, it should just be a click of the autocal button.
Granted PC calibration can only do grayscale and gamma. Gamut is handled by and ICC profile, we don't have any PC specific workflows yet, so if you want to create an ICC profile you'll have to go into design mode and add one to the workflow.

Thanks, Joel.

I found some of your reiterative posts on setting ATI CCC to 16-235, I can't find the video option of full range/0-255, perhaps because I use Sapphire's version and not AMD's direct download. I saw your posts on ICC only having an affect on certain softwares like Photoshop, so I wont need to worry about that. From some other things I've read, gamma needs to be adjusted separately from RGB/grayscale. Do you think 2.15 is a little low for dark room viewing? I know the recommended is 2.5-ish for dark viewing. So I'm wondering if a higher gamma, provided by my PC, would give better dark detail in a room with no lights or if it probably doesn't matter much?

I will look for the auto cal button, so far I don't think I have found it.
post #419 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

If you want to use the APL patterns in CalMAN and you are manually flipping patterns, it's totally fine to simply substitute the patterns. I don't believe there is a way to automate it with our IR controller though.
As for profiling it's pretty straight forward, connect both meters, setup the i1 Pro, use it in contact mode on the panel, click "multi-pass" when it's done reading with the i1 Pro, remove it and setup the i1 Display Pro in as close to the same location as possible and read again.
Ok, thanx Joel
as far as the i1pro setup, just use the defaults in calman? No drivers needed?
post #420 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Ya and also don't think that using a USB adapter (even if it seems to be working) from your laptop to your RadianceMini 3D is really working properly.
I have used two different USB adapters, with one the results at first were good and then things went bad, the second one seems to be working ok but I have only used it once.
That said I have a older laptop (XP, 2.5 intell dual, 4 gigs ram.) and have a RS 232 port in it so I can do a direct connect to my Mini. So far I am finding the results to be even better than my other new laptop with the USB adapter, all be it slower.
I have got Calman's USB adapter coming so I can compare the results.
ss

This is a follow up on hooking your laptop to the RS232 port on a Mini 3D.

I have found this alturnitve for the new laptops, if you don't want to use a USB adapter and simply use the provided RS232 cord to hook directly into your laptop and Radiance.
E/Port, Legacy I/O Expansion Port, Dell Latitude E-Family/Mobile Precision, Customer Kit.

imo directly connecting the RS 232 cable to my laptop and Mini 3D works better than any USB adapter. The docking station shown above costs about the same as Caman's USB adapter.

ss
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