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CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion - Page 15

post #421 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

...
imo directly connecting the RS 232 cable to my laptop and Mini 3D works better than any USB adapter. The docking station shown above costs about the same as Caman's USB adapter.
ss

What makes a direct connection better?

Why does cost matter when Spectracal includes the USB adapter that works with the Lumagen product?
post #422 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

What makes a direct connection better?
Why does cost matter when Spectracal includes the USB adapter that works with the Lumagen product?

Here is a link so you can decide for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port

The below is a extreme example using a USB adapter, to a lesser degree using Calman's USB adapter this has happened.
When using a direct RS 232 port the above has never happened. .



Some of us like to support the AVS store and buy from them, as I did. However I got a I1Pro and C6 along with Calman V3, V4 and now V5 from Calman.

I didn't make a definitive statement about USB or RS 232, I simply gave my opinion. Beyond what I just posted I am not looking to get into any kind of a debate.

ss
post #423 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here is a link so you can decide for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_port
I know what a serial port is. I was building cables and writing serial drivers for CPM back in the early 80's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

...
I am not looking to get into any kind of a debate.
ss
Fair enough. I was unaware asking questions was provoking a "debate". I won't do that again.
post #424 of 2247
CalMan has just posted there latest update for Calman 5 Home.

ss
post #425 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

CalMan has just posted there latest update for Calman 5 Home.
ss

Thanks for the heads up - that figures, I just installed Calman 5 Home yesterday! rolleyes.gif
post #426 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

This is a follow up on hooking your laptop to the RS232 port on a Mini 3D.
I have found this alturnitve for the new laptops, if you don't want to use a USB adapter and simply use the provided RS232 cord to hook directly into your laptop and Radiance.
E/Port, Legacy I/O Expansion Port, Dell Latitude E-Family/Mobile Precision, Customer Kit.
imo directly connecting the RS 232 cable to my laptop and Mini 3D works better than any USB adapter. The docking station shown above costs about the same as Caman's USB adapter.
ss

I agree with this approach. I am using a Dell Precision M series (same as Latitude D-family) which has a true hardware serial port, but there are also bargain bins full of docking stations with serial port at the local computer store/recycler so cost is negligible.

These older laptops have come in handy over the years for several programs that interface to A/V components, automotive or scientific components, and I hope to never be without a true RS-232 serial port. Using an adapter just adds one more component to troubleshoot if/when you are having issues.
post #427 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

I agree with this approach. I am using a Dell Precision M series (same as Latitude D-family) which has a true hardware serial port, but there are also bargain bins full of docking stations with serial port at the local computer store/recycler so cost is negligible.
These older laptops have come in handy over the years for several programs that interface to A/V components, automotive or scientific components, and I hope to never be without a true RS-232 serial port. Using an adapter just adds one more component to troubleshoot if/when you are having issues.

I agree smile.gif Have been writing some from of RS232 control now for over 25+ years. You would think by now we would have moved onto something else. Even most of these USB devices we support are a virtual RS232 over USB. So most of the control code that is in our hardware abstraction layer is written for RS232 devices.
post #428 of 2247
Is there any need to uninstall a previous build to install the new one?
post #429 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

Is there any need to uninstall a previous build to install the new one?

no, CalMAN v5's installer will update over the previous v5 Version/Build
post #430 of 2247
Does the download page always take me to the user info survey page? I don't mind filling it out each time, but if this affects SpectraCal by cluttering their system, I would rather avoid if it's preferred.
post #431 of 2247

Sv: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Does the download page always take me to the user info survey page? I don't mind filling it out each time, but if this affects SpectraCal by cluttering their system, I would rather avoid if it's preferred.

Best would be able to update direct from program itself... smile.gif


Gt-I9000 Cm10
post #432 of 2247
When I checked the version in About and check for new updates it just says to go to SpectraCal.com/...downloads.
post #433 of 2247
With the auto generated PC patterns, does anyone else get different sized patterns one one grayscale read-through? Sometimes the gray pattern fills the whole screen and other times it only fills the specified window size, 18%, 25%, etc.

Edit: I noticed I selected the PC pattern generator and not the HTPC pattern generator. But when I try to select the HTPC generator I get the Error #9 RS232/USB Error. I know this means the IP address isn't correct. Should it be my computer's IP Address?

I found that I needed to change the settings in the PC-Client window for window size. I also don't know how I missed the Auto-Cal button...eek.gif Anyway, I did a 11 point WB (21 point had too many Delta-Es over 3, and a few over 6, mostly mid range) with gamma at 2.16 (rough average of my TVs gamma line) and 2.6 (D-Nice's gamma setting on PathofNeo's VT50). I'm surprised at the difference between the two settings. Now it seems like 2.15 is a bit bright, though 2.6 seems a tad dark but more natural looking in dark scenes. Faces look more naturally lit with 2.6 but too saturated in light scenes. It's great being able to play around with different settings though. Tomorrow I'll see how 2.4 looks, maybe it will be a good middle ground. Does gamma have a greater affect on higher IREs than lower? I'm still not fully familiar with how gamma works, though I do know it's a power function of luminance.
Edited by anikun07 - 10/24/12 at 9:29pm
post #434 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

Does the download page always take me to the user info survey page? I don't mind filling it out each time, but if this affects SpectraCal by cluttering their system, I would rather avoid if it's preferred.

Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

When I checked the version in About and check for new updates it just says to go to SpectraCal.com/...downloads.

Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by anikun07 View Post

With the auto generated PC patterns, does anyone else get different sized patterns one one grayscale read-through? Sometimes the gray pattern fills the whole screen and other times it only fills the specified window size, 18%, 25%, etc.
Edit: I noticed I selected the PC pattern generator and not the HTPC pattern generator. But when I try to select the HTPC generator I get the Error #9 RS232/USB Error. I know this means the IP address isn't correct. Should it be my computer's IP Address?

That would suggest Com Port 1,2,3,4,5,6, that you RS 232/USB cable is connected to, not IP address.

ss
post #435 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

That would suggest Com Port 1,2,3,4,5,6, that you RS 232/USB cable is connected to, not IP address.
ss

I did read over at the SpectraCal forums that it should also include IP Address. But since I did get the PC generation to work I'm happy. Perhaps the HTPC generator is for Cal PC because my PC Client windows only shows the info for the PC gen port.
post #436 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

You cannot use a profile from another system!
Before every new calibration, I create a new profile. Conditions of every sort can happen! A lot less problems by re-profiling each time.

hi P5browne, joel and anyone else wishing to comment, can anyone tell me whether or not my experiences last night are "normal behavior" for calibrating...
1) I profiled an I1 display pro to an I1 pro (twice for doublecheck got same results) and checked both against 100% white window and noticed both times that both blue and red showed higher on i1 pro than i1display pro...maybe one click higher each. Shouldnt they be exact? (same spot on plasma, both contact mode,profiled using multi-pass, same evrything...)
2) When using either the i1 display pro or the i1 pro to calibrate 2pt grayscale i still get fluctuating meter reads...(RGB levels changing while reading in continuous mode). Not big drastic swings but enough that you would want to correct either color with a click in either direction...is this normal? I can get close but never exact...
3) When calibrating CMS same thing is happening: Put up a red 75% window and make the corrections in the um while reading in continuous mode. When I get close to calibrated i get to a point where one or two of the RGB levels are fluctuating, some above the line and then below the line, repaeat, etc...Is this normal?
Thx for the advice guys...
post #437 of 2247
When you're calibrating a plasma you're always going to be having fluctuations. Between the general instability of the technology and image retention you're going to see small changes.

Looking at the dE number the fluctuations you see are likely small changes.
post #438 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

hi P5browne, joel and anyone else wishing to comment, can anyone tell me whether or not my experiences last night are "normal behavior" for calibrating...
1) I profiled an I1 display pro to an I1 pro (twice for doublecheck got same results) and checked both against 100% white window and noticed both times that both blue and red showed higher on i1 pro than i1display pro...maybe one click higher each. Shouldnt they be exact? (same spot on plasma, both contact mode,profiled using multi-pass, same evrything...)
2) When using either the i1 display pro or the i1 pro to calibrate 2pt grayscale i still get fluctuating meter reads...(RGB levels changing while reading in continuous mode). Not big drastic swings but enough that you would want to correct either color with a click in either direction...is this normal? I can get close but never exact...
3) When calibrating CMS same thing is happening: Put up a red 75% window and make the corrections in the um while reading in continuous mode. When I get close to calibrated i get to a point where one or two of the RGB levels are fluctuating, some above the line and then below the line, repaeat, etc...Is this normal?
Thx for the advice guys...

#1 - Why are you profiling the i1 Display Pro to the i1Pro? Should be the other way around. The i1Pro is the better of the 2 Meters, but the Black Reading every 9 minutes is a pain in the butt. I profile my i1pro to the C6, and with Calman 5 they come pretty close. Going to either the C6 or i1 Display Pro, eliminates the Dark Readings.
#2 and #3 - Are your White Balance settings calibrated to spec first?
post #439 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

#1 - Why are you profiling the i1 Display Pro to the i1Pro? Should be the other way around. The i1Pro is the better of the 2 Meters, but the Black Reading every 9 minutes is a pain in the butt. I profile my i1pro to the C6, and with Calman 5 they come pretty close. Going to either the C6 or i1 Display Pro, eliminates the Dark Readings.
#2 and #3 - Are your White Balance settings calibrated to spec first?

Hey P5browne,
regarding #1 thats what i meant i1pro as reference meter and displaypro as target
#2, and #3 I am not sure what u mean but this happens as i am trying to calibrate 2pt WB....i just wanted to make sure these fluctuations were "normal"
post #440 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannoooo View Post

Hey P5browne,
regarding #1 thats what i meant i1pro as reference meter and displaypro as target
#2, and #3 I am not sure what u mean but this happens as i am trying to calibrate 2pt WB....i just wanted to make sure these fluctuations were "normal"

#2 and #3 - Manufacturer's in their quest to get your dollars, have a tendency not to stick to specs, but rather a religion of playing with the video results to try
and get your attention: ie LG=Blue, Samsung=Green, Sony=Red, Sharp=Yellow, etc. Of course this makes them are no longer in spec. In the Base setups of these TVs are what we call White Balance settings. Usually control things such as your Cool, Medium and Warm, etc. These usually have to be calibrated first (With all other values having been zeroed out first.) to the companies specs, before continuing on with 2, 10, 11, 20, 21, etc Point calibrations. On newer sets White Balances are usually part of the Menu. Older computers, the White Balances were locked out behind Service Menus.
If left un-calibrated, then you're trying to compensate for these out of spec settings, with your IREs.
How often have you seen Out of the Box specs, not looking the set's best, but rather looking like what they think the consumer wants them to look? Problem here is, we all have our likes and dislikes - hence some people preferring one brand over another when they're first contemplating what set to purchase. Me, I like LG, and I noticed the last time I went into Best Buy, all the LGs looked better than the rest of the sets there! If all the sets were calibrated to spec, you'd have a much harder time trying to decide!

Have found the closer I got to the ideal specs in my calibrations, the fluctations, seem to dampen down to a minimal amount.
Edited by p5browne - 10/25/12 at 7:59pm
post #441 of 2247
When doing a manual calibration using the DDC controls to calibrate the colors on my display with a DVDO iScan Duo, it uses HSL. Hue defaults to 50%, and Saturation and Lightness default to 100%.

If I take a measurement in continuous mode, and I need to raise either S or L, I can't, since the control is already at 100%. I can raise it on the Duo itself, but not in CalMan.

Is this the way the DDC works, or is there a way to correct the situation so that the DDC controls are not maxed out at 100% with S or L?
post #442 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

When doing a manual calibration using the DDC controls to calibrate the colors on my display with a DVDO iScan Duo, it uses HSL. Hue defaults to 50%, and Saturation and Lightness default to 100%.
If I take a measurement in continuous mode, and I need to raise either S or L, I can't, since the control is already at 100%. I can raise it on the Duo itself, but not in CalMan.
Is this the way the DDC works, or is there a way to correct the situation so that the DDC controls are not maxed out at 100% with S or L?

We have found that even thought the Duo allows you to push above default values you will get side effects from doing so. You can’t do more than the display is capable of. So if pushing luminance above defaults you will get a reduction in saturation or limit the control over hue, same goes for Saturation. Our VideoEQ allows us to push above neutral defaults for luminance and saturation but as we found out by doing so has side effects. We limited the controls within CalMAN to not allow the user to do something that has a negative effect. In most cases the corrective choice should be to reduce the other controls around it to get balance. In the case of the Duo it has a white balance limiter to reduce white to give you head room back for RGBCMY to have the correct luminance. As for saturation if your display has a under saturated color pushing it harder will only make something else worse.
post #443 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

We have found that even thought the Duo allows you to push above default values you will get side effects from doing so. You can’t do more than the display is capable of. So if pushing luminance above defaults you will get a reduction in saturation or limit the control over hue, same goes for Saturation. Our VideoEQ allows us to push above neutral defaults for luminance and saturation but as we found out by doing so has side effects. We limited the controls within CalMAN to not allow the user to do something that has a negative effect. In most cases the corrective choice should be to reduce the other controls around it to get balance. In the case of the Duo it has a white balance limiter to reduce white to give you head room back for RGBCMY to have the correct luminance. As for saturation if your display has a under saturated color pushing it harder will only make something else worse.

What if I prefer the way the CMS works in the Duo to the CMS in my display? There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to increase Luminance or Saturation in the Duo instead of using the controls in my display. I've done it this way in ChromaPure with no detriment whatsoever to image quality. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to do the same in CalMan.

If the luminance or saturation in my display was already maxed out, I could see where increasing either in the Duo would be a problem. However, if there is still plenty of headroom, I should be able to increase either in the Duo.
post #444 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

If the luminance or saturation in my display was already maxed out, I could see where increasing either in the Duo would be a problem. However, if there is still plenty of headroom, I should be able to increase either in the Duo.

It is causing clipping the default values are effectively maxed out so 235 is 235, increasing the luminance causes values at the top of the range to exceed their target levels.

If you run the clipping level on a Gamut luminance sweep you can see exactly this problem.

When you measure at 75% luminance you don't notice this issue.
post #445 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

It is causing clipping the default values are effectively maxed out so 235 is 235, increasing the luminance causes values at the top of the range to exceed their target levels.
If you run the clipping level on a Gamut luminance sweep you can see exactly this problem.
When you measure at 75% luminance you don't notice this issue.

I don't get it. Let me reiterate.

I have an Epson 8350. I calibrate the colors using 75% Saturation patterns. I leave the display's CMS alone, so all the RGBCYM controls for HSL are at 0. These controls have a range of -64 to +64, so I can raise or lower them to calibrate. However, I choose to use the DVDO's CMS instead of adjusting the Display's CMS.

Therefore, I should have plenty of headroom to adjust the colors using the Duo. Unfortunately, the fact that the DDC controls default to 100% for Saturation and Lightness, I cannot raise them, and can only lower them. I am forced to raise these parameters using the display's CMS, when this should be completely unnecessary.

Again, I have done this in ChromaPure with absolutely no issues or artifacts at all.
post #446 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne 
Have found the closer I got to the ideal specs in my calibrations, the fluctations, seem to dampen down to a minimal amount.
Hey p5browne thanx for the info
I sent you a pm
post #447 of 2247
Just a quick feature/change request smile.gif

In source settings, under saurce automation, and ticked pattern change prompts.

Would it be possible to ignore the prompts when using "read countinuous", since it just keep asking for the same pattern?

Regards
post #448 of 2247

Sv: CalMan 5 Release Notes and Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by visca blaugrana View Post

Just a quick feature/change request smile.gif

In source settings, under saurce automation, and ticked pattern change prompts.

Would it be possible to ignore the prompts when using "read countinuous", since it just keep asking for the same pattern?

Isn't there already a tick box that says something like...prompt for pattern changes....or something like that?..un-tick that!.. I'm not near computer to check...though...but in calman 4 there were one.. smile.gif
Regards[/quote]

GT-i9300 CM10
post #449 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrc4u View Post

Isn't there already a tick box that says something like...prompt for pattern changes....or something like that?..un-tick that!.. I'm not near computer to check...though...but in calman 4 there were one.. smile.gif
Regards
GT-i9300 CM10[/quote]
Yes there is. I replied the same to the post at the SpectraCal forum.
post #450 of 2247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

I don't get it. Let me reiterate.
I have an Epson 8350. I calibrate the colors using 75% Saturation patterns. I leave the display's CMS alone, so all the RGBCYM controls for HSL are at 0. These controls have a range of -64 to +64, so I can raise or lower them to calibrate. However, I choose to use the DVDO's CMS instead of adjusting the Display's CMS.
Therefore, I should have plenty of headroom to adjust the colors using the Duo. Unfortunately, the fact that the DDC controls default to 100% for Saturation and Lightness, I cannot raise them, and can only lower them. I am forced to raise these parameters using the display's CMS, when this should be completely unnecessary.
Again, I have done this in ChromaPure with absolutely no issues or artifacts at all.

One other thing to note is your display may not be representative of all displays. With video processors where it can be hooked up to any display we take the safe route that is backed by color science.

I do see the argument for saturation, if you're calibrating at 75% saturation. Which isn't something we were able to do in v4.

For luminance, if you don't have enough, you should be turning white down, not the colors up.
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