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Best Panasonic LED for GAMING

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone^^
Can you help me choosing a new tv? After having some problems with the panasonic plasma gt30, I now want to try a LED panel.

I'm not an expert, but I find this two models quite intresting: Panasonic DT50 and WT50.

I want to specify that I use the tv ONLY FOR GAMING, not to watch films or any other things. I want to understand which is the best model in this point of view.

Can you answer some of my questions?

1. First thing first, there is any big difference between these two models?

2. My gt30 has a great picture quality (despite all the issues it has). These two led can provide me the same quality? I know that LED screens are more bright than plasmas, and it doesn't bother me at all.

3. What about imput lag? Is it acceptable?

4. Please, tell me if it suffers from any kind of issue. It's something I hate, and I want to know if there can be some problems, before I buy a new tv.


Thanx for your help^_^
post #2 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisoraMassacre View Post

Hi everyone^^
Can you help me choosing a new tv? After having some problems with the panasonic plasma gt30, I now want to try a LED panel.
I'm not an expert, but I find this two models quite intresting: Panasonic DT50 and WT50.
I want to specify that I use the tv ONLY FOR GAMING, not to watch films or any other things. I want to understand which is the best model in this point of view.
Can you answer some of my questions?
1. First thing first, there is any big difference between these two models?
2. My gt30 has a great picture quality (despite all the issues it has). These two led can provide me the same quality? I know that LED screens are more bright than plasmas, and it doesn't bother me at all.
3. What about imput lag? Is it acceptable?
4. Please, tell me if it suffers from any kind of issue. It's something I hate, and I want to know if there can be some problems, before I buy a new tv.
Thanx for your help^_^

both of these have really bad black levels, especially the DT50 (an atrocious 0.2397 fL for the DT50 and a poor 0.039 fL for the WT50)

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-l47dt50/4505-6482_7-35118294-2.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-l47wt50/4505-6482_7-35118048-2.html

I have an LG LK450 with the S-IPS panel that has black levels almost exactly the same as the WT50 and I can tell you it does tend to make colors seem less saturated and blacks seem more grayish. On the WT50, you might be able to live with the poor blacks but probably not with the DT50, which has blacks that are more than 6 times as light as on the WT50.
post #3 of 35
In all honesty, this year's Panasonic LED-LCDs don't hold a candle to their plasma counterparts. The best Panasonics for gaming would be the ST50, GT50, and VT50 plasmas. If IR is a concern, the Samsung E6500, E7000, and E8000 plasmas are good alternatives.
post #4 of 35
Thread Starter 
Thanx for answering^^

For Samsung, do you know if they made (for Europe) any 42" model? I can't find it anywhere...
But,does Samsung plasma have IR problems? I absolutely won't buy a panasonic plasma, this year, because my gt30 suffers of awful IR (and phosphor trailing) and I heard that the 2012 models have this problem, too. I don't want to risk.

And... about the blacks in the DT50 and WT50.... I've red some reviews, and they said that blacks aren't great, but it's something you notice only in bright rooms. I play in a rather dark room... so I'm really confused...

In some italian forums, someone say that the black level of this LED is close to the Pioneer Kuro O__O.
post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisoraMassacre View Post

Thanx for answering^^
For Samsung, do you know if they made (for Europe) any 42" model? I can't find it anywhere...
But,does Samsung plasma have IR problems? I absolutely won't buy a panasonic plasma, this year, because my gt30 suffers of awful IR (and phosphor trailing) and I heard that the 2012 models have this problem, too. I don't want to risk.
And... about the blacks in the DT50 and WT50.... I've red some reviews, and they said that blacks aren't great, but it's something you notice only in bright rooms. I play in a rather dark room... so I'm really confused...
In some italian forums, someone say that the black level of this LED is close to the Pioneer Kuro O__O.

The Samsung plasmas start at 51" for those models, so that's the smallest size they come in (nobody really makes 42" 1080p plasmas anymore; they're all 720p and entry-level only). In a rather dark room, the blacks on the DT50 and WT50 will likely be a deal breaker (especially with the DT50). They will still be an issue even in a more moderately lit room, however. Anyone who says the blacks on these LED-LCDs are remotely close to a Kuro doesn't have a clue about what they're talking about.
Edited by PlasmaPZ80U - 8/5/12 at 8:49pm
post #6 of 35
Another brand to consider is LG. Their current LED/LCD lineup is pretty good (though not as good as in 2010 and 2011) and should make for good gaming TVs. I believe some recommend Sharp as well.
post #7 of 35
The Samsung UN46ES8000 has minimal input lag and solid black levels, so it would make for an above-average gaming television. A few other options would be the LG 42LM6200 (a bit smaller but still a great 120hz refresh rate) and some Sharp TV sets (as the above poster mentioned). I'd recommend checking out the reviews and waiting for a deal on one of these.
post #8 of 35
I just got the Panny LED E50 and in Game mode it looks ****ing fantastic and there is little to no input lag. I know the processing is a bit different in the higher end models, but I would assume there Game mode would be very similar. Seriously, games look amazing in this set.
post #9 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechFan84 View Post

The Samsung UN46ES8000 has minimal input lag and solid black levels, so it would make for an above-average gaming television. A few other options would be the LG 42LM6200 (a bit smaller but still a great 120hz refresh rate) and some Sharp TV sets (as the above poster mentioned). I'd recommend checking out the reviews and waiting for a deal on one of these.

is that in game mode only or also in movie mode?
post #10 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjtiger View Post

I just got the Panny LED E50 and in Game mode it looks ****ing fantastic and there is little to no input lag. I know the processing is a bit different in the higher end models, but I would assume there Game mode would be very similar. Seriously, games look amazing in this set.

are you happy with the blacks?
post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

is that in game mode only or also in movie mode?

It works fairly well in movie mode also, although it does have to sacrifice a bit of its screen uniformity. The refresh rate and video processing are both excellent for gaming...take a look here: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46es8000/4505-6482_7-35117943.html
post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechFan84 View Post

It works fairly well in movie mode also, although it does have to sacrifice a bit of its screen uniformity. The refresh rate and video processing are both excellent for gaming...take a look here: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46es8000/4505-6482_7-35117943.html

that's because movie mode lacks auto-dimming, which hides screen uniformity issues... there also the issue with micro dimming ultimate, which may be not be active in movie mode (not that I'd want any dynamic picture enhancement enabled by default in movie mode)

Honestly, if I was to go for a Samsung (non-3D model) right now, I'd pick up the LN46D630. It has the best blacks of any Samsung LED/LCD (about twice as dark as the current LED Samsungs), solid screen uniformity, and color accuracy, with the full suite of picture settings. It's also massively cheaper than the ES series models and is a no frills CCFL-LCD that's all about 2D picture quality and nothing else. I don't know how much longer it will be available since it's a 2011 model, but it's the last great CCFL-LCD from Samsung and outperforms many pricier LED models as well. Just my 2 cents.
post #13 of 35
Thread Starter 
Thanx^^

Another question about the dt50/wt50: I've red that wt50 in game mod has 0 imput lag... is it possible?

Someone who owns one of these panels, could tell me if they suffer of any kind of issues? You know, like... halo effects, or trailings, ecc?
I think that if everything else is perfect i can tollerate the low blacks^^
post #14 of 35
going back to the CNET reviews...

DT50:

The bad: This TV's picture quality is below average, especially considering the high price. Black levels are some of the lightest we've ever seen and shadow detail is washed out. Colors are inaccurate and undersaturated, the screen reflects too much ambient light, and uniformity is poor.

WT50:

The bad: The high-priced WT50 has a sub-par 2D picture, reproducing a lighter shade of black than many cheaper LEDs. Panasonic inexplicably saddled the best default picture mode with compulsory smoothing, and the other modes have color accuracy issues. The TV doesn't come with 3D glasses.
post #15 of 35
If the blacks don't bother you, LG sets with IPS panels are better choices, including the CCFL models. For example, my entry-level LG 42LK450 does everything great except for blacks (which washout further when you go vertically off-axis, though horizontal viewing angles are rock solid for a LCD).
post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechFan84 View Post

It works fairly well in movie mode also, although it does have to sacrifice a bit of its screen uniformity. The refresh rate and video processing are both excellent for gaming...take a look here: http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/samsung-un46es8000/4505-6482_7-35117943.html

that's because movie mode lacks auto-dimming, which hides screen uniformity issues... there also the issue with micro dimming ultimate, which may be not be active in movie mode (not that I'd want any dynamic picture enhancement enabled by default in movie mode)

Honestly, if I was to go for a Samsung (non-3D model) right now, I'd pick up the LN46D630. It has the best blacks of any Samsung LED/LCD (about twice as dark as the current LED Samsungs), solid screen uniformity, and color accuracy, with the full suite of picture settings. It's also massively cheaper than the ES series models and is a no frills CCFL-LCD that's all about 2D picture quality and nothing else. I don't know how much longer it will be available since it's a 2011 model, but it's the last great CCFL-LCD from Samsung and outperforms many pricier LED models as well. Just my 2 cents.

This is excellent advice for a gaming-only display.
post #17 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

are you happy with the blacks?

The black levels are not bad at all. Honestly, I'm way more worried about input lag and there is little to none with this TV. With the PS3, the blacks look great, but beware of the 360's issue with crushing blacks. I played through MW3 campaign today with low light levels coming in the windows and the blacks didn't bother me at all. Also, the E50 model has Clear Panel instead of Clear Panel Pro, which I believe is more glossy. The E50 is like dead in between Matte and glossy. It's really weird. Either way, from a gaming perspective I would go with a IPS-A display if you are gonna go the LCD-LED route. Panny's LED's clearly tout IPS on the label where as LG has some panel lottery with there lower end LCD-LED's. I'm pretty sure Samsung uses there own proprietary panel and I've heard they can have really bad issues with Input lag. At least that is what I have heard and read on this forum. Hell, don't sleep on Sony. I'm not sure about this years models, but there 720's from last year were great gaming LED's.
post #18 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

going back to the CNET reviews...
DT50:
The bad: This TV's picture quality is below average, especially considering the high price. Black levels are some of the lightest we've ever seen and shadow detail is washed out. Colors are inaccurate and undersaturated, the screen reflects too much ambient light, and uniformity is poor.
WT50:
The bad: The high-priced WT50 has a sub-par 2D picture, reproducing a lighter shade of black than many cheaper LEDs. Panasonic inexplicably saddled the best default picture mode with compulsory smoothing, and the other modes have color accuracy issues. The TV doesn't come with 3D glasses.

This is really weird because there are other sites that say that the best thing about the TV is its uniformity. The reviews seem to be all over the place. I can only speak from my experience, and the non 3D E50 has been awesome for gaming and the screen uniformity is above par with what I expected from a edge lit LED. You go in knowing it might be an issue, but flash lighting is non existent., and the uniformity is only noticeable when the screen is pure black. When there is action on the screen it is on point.
post #19 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjtiger View Post

This is really weird because there are other sites that say that the best thing about the TV is its uniformity. The reviews seem to be all over the place. I can only speak from my experience, and the non 3D E50 has been awesome for gaming and the screen uniformity is above par with what I expected from a edge lit LED. You go in knowing it might be an issue, but flash lighting is non existent., and the uniformity is only noticeable when the screen is pure black. When there is action on the screen it is on point.

here's the E50 review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-l42e50/4505-6482_7-35137858.html

screen uniformity issues on edge-lit sets often are most apparent with pure black screens, which is a real issue when viewing dark content... I honestly would steer away from edge-lit sets more often than not, since nearly all have significant uniformity issues of one kind or another... full-array and CCFL sets are better in this respect, more often than not

"The good: The Panasonic E50 is an attractive LCD TV that offers a solid amount of features, including Smart TV, for the price. Picture quality is better than that of the much more expensive Panasonic DT50.

The bad: That said, picture quality isn't the best, with rival LCDs and plasmas providing better performance for the money. Colors are a little off and a lack of deep blacks and comprehensive shadow detail lets the set down. Uniformity is an issue with large splodges in black areas of the picture. The TV built-in lacks wireless connectivity.

The bottom line: The Panasonic E50 is a budget TV with a smattering of features but little to recommend in the way of picture quality.

Picture quality
In comparison with the picture quality presented by rivals such as the Toshiba L5200, the Panasonic E50 is unimpressive at the price. It doesn't do anything particularly well, with fairly inaccurate colors and grayish blacks. It's better than a bargain-basement TV like the catchily named TCL L40FHDF12TA, but not much. The E50's biggest problem is that black areas of the picture are subject to backlight bleeding, which further obscures the TV's average handling of shadow detail. Side-by-side with the Toshiba, the Panasonic's images lack the solidity of the L5200. Even a decent way with 24p sources doesn't do much to propel the picture of this Panasonic TV past shoulder shrug territory."
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjtiger View Post

The black levels are not bad at all. Honestly, I'm way more worried about input lag and there is little to none with this TV. With the PS3, the blacks look great, but beware of the 360's issue with crushing blacks. I played through MW3 campaign today with low light levels coming in the windows and the blacks didn't bother me at all. Also, the E50 model has Clear Panel instead of Clear Panel Pro, which I believe is more glossy. The E50 is like dead in between Matte and glossy. It's really weird. Either way, from a gaming perspective I would go with a IPS-A display if you are gonna go the LCD-LED route. Panny's LED's clearly tout IPS on the label where as LG has some panel lottery with there lower end LCD-LED's. I'm pretty sure Samsung uses there own proprietary panel and I've heard they can have really bad issues with Input lag. At least that is what I have heard and read on this forum. Hell, don't sleep on Sony. I'm not sure about this years models, but there 720's from last year were great gaming LED's.

I guess I'm way more picky about black levels, which is unfortunate given my current LG LCD is IPS and has the poor blacks associated with the technology. That being said, those blacks are more on par with the WT50 than the E50 or DT50. Also, the color accuracy on my set measures dead-on perfect, which isn't the case with these Panasonic LED-LCDs.
post #21 of 35
Thread Starter 
Ok, thank you for all your valuable opinions...

Now, the final decision... what's better, WT50 or E50?
Is it true that e50 offers a very good picture quality despite it's relatively low price?

And, another question... In my country, I seem to find only the e30 (I haven't searched a lot tough)... do you know if there are any great differences between e50 and e30
Oh, and can you tell me more about this Toshiba L5200?

Thanks thanks thanks
post #22 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisoraMassacre View Post

Ok, thank you for all your valuable opinions...
Now, the final decision... what's better, WT50 or E50?
Is it true that e50 offers a very good picture quality despite it's relatively low price?
And, another question... In my country, I seem to find only the e30 (I haven't searched a lot tough)... do you know if there are any great differences between e50 and e30
Oh, and can you tell me more about this Toshiba L5200?
Thanks thanks thanks

given that none of these LED models are perfect, the E50 would be easier to justify price-wise

that's just my opinion, of course
post #23 of 35
Thread Starter 
And what about Sony HX855? Seems good...
post #24 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisoraMassacre View Post

And what about Sony HX855? Seems good...

if that's similar to the HX850 it should be a FAR better choice
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

here's the E50 review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-l42e50/4505-6482_7-35137858.html
screen uniformity issues on edge-lit sets often are most apparent with pure black screens, which is a real issue when viewing dark content... I honestly would steer away from edge-lit sets more often than not, since nearly all have significant uniformity issues of one kind or another... full-array and CCFL sets are better in this respect, more often than not
"The good: The Panasonic E50 is an attractive LCD TV that offers a solid amount of features, including Smart TV, for the price. Picture quality is better than that of the much more expensive Panasonic DT50.
The bad: That said, picture quality isn't the best, with rival LCDs and plasmas providing better performance for the money. Colors are a little off and a lack of deep blacks and comprehensive shadow detail lets the set down. Uniformity is an issue with large splodges in black areas of the picture. The TV built-in lacks wireless connectivity.
The bottom line: The Panasonic E50 is a budget TV with a smattering of features but little to recommend in the way of picture quality.
Picture quality
In comparison with the picture quality presented by rivals such as the Toshiba L5200, the Panasonic E50 is unimpressive at the price. It doesn't do anything particularly well, with fairly inaccurate colors and grayish blacks. It's better than a bargain-basement TV like the catchily named TCL L40FHDF12TA, but not much. The E50's biggest problem is that black areas of the picture are subject to backlight bleeding, which further obscures the TV's average handling of shadow detail. Side-by-side with the Toshiba, the Panasonic's images lack the solidity of the L5200. Even a decent way with 24p sources doesn't do much to propel the picture of this Panasonic TV past shoulder shrug territory."

From a gaming point of view this TV rocks and that is what the OP was asking. With the right settings I get great color accuracy. That being said, if I could afford the Sony HX model that is what I would have went with. For the price I got the 47 inch TV the Sony would have been well over double the price. Sorry, but this Panny will do just fine! Also, deep blacks aren't a problem at all. CNET is the only site to complain about the uniformity and black levels. I wonder if they got a shoddy set.
post #26 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjtiger View Post

From a gaming point of view this TV rocks and that is what the OP was asking. With the right settings I get great color accuracy. That being said, if I could afford the Sony HX model that is what I would have went with. For the price I got the 47 inch TV the Sony would have been well over double the price. Sorry, but this Panny will do just fine! Also, deep blacks aren't a problem at all. CNET is the only site to complain about the uniformity and black levels. I wonder if they got a shoddy set.

It's not rocket science, edge-lit LEDs with no local dimming plus IPS panels don't make for impressive black levels nor solid screen uniformity. However, we all have different standards, preferences, and priorities when it comes to evaluating PQ. So, what bothers me may be not be an issue for you at all.

BTW, can you reference me any positive reviews of this set? I'd love to read them.
post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

if that's similar to the HX850 it should be a FAR better choice

Just for curiosity... i know that hx850 has a very good game mode, with low imput lag... but the hx750 (middle model) doesn't have a game mode
.. is it possible? o.o
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisoraMassacre View Post

Just for curiosity... i know that hx850 has a very good game mode, with low imput lag... but the hx750 (middle model) doesn't have a game mode
.. is it possible? o.o

sorry, don't know

but the hx850 is a superior set all-around
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

It's not rocket science, edge-lit LEDs with no local dimming plus IPS panels don't make for impressive black levels nor solid screen uniformity. However, we all have different standards, preferences, and priorities when it comes to evaluating PQ. So, what bothers me may be not be an issue for you at all.
BTW, can you reference me any positive reviews of this set? I'd love to read them.

Here is one http://www.televisioninfo.com/content/Panasonic-TC-L42E50-LED-HDTV-Review.htm
post #30 of 35
Note that this is for the 42, but they reference that it is the same TV as far as engine and features.
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