Two questions I have been contemplating since the Star Trek TNG discussions about OAR.
The first one is easy enough. Given that 480p, 720p and 1080p all look best in their native resolution without any scaling, doesn't it make more sense that the respective media is mapped natively to the exact pixels? Specifically, shouldn't 480p content be windowboxed? Granted it would make the image smaller, but the resolution would be sharper, and presumably the TV setting could be adjusted to show a scaled image to fill the screen, in much the same way a 4:3 image can be stretched now. But on my 32" 720p screen, it would make the SD image about the equivalent of a 19" TV which was typical of the image size most people watched these shows on originally.
Part 2 of this observation is that most DVD transfers are of the full TV transmitted frame, and the entire overscan area of the original broadcast image. In some cases, as much as 15% of the image could have been obscured by a television, especially in the 50s and 60s. And at least 10% of the image was obscured by most shadow-mask TVs into the 90s. Given this reality, and the fact that directors and DPs used a ground glass with action-safe markings to frame a scene, what exactly constitutes the OAR for most programs produced for TV? Granted the aspect ratio is 4:3, but how much of that should be transferred, especially for Blu-Ray? I mean people don't buy BD to use with 4:3 CRTs, and albeit LCDs have some overscan, but nowhere near the amount as a CRT TV for which the material was originally composed. Moreover, most of these TVs the overscan can be turned off, and I would venture that most BD collectors not only know how to turn it off, but make sure they buy a set with 1:1 pixel mapping ability in the first place.
I first noticed this phenomenon watching a DVD transfer of Irwin Allen's "Time Tunnel". In one scene, a bunch of soldiers run by the tunnel, the back of which was not masked, and they bunched up against the back of the set, accordion style, and then stood there waiting for "cut". Obviously, they would have been visible in the TV aperture, but the director knew they would be concealed in the overscan area. In Star Trek TNG, CBS used an example of a shot that had C-stands, lights, etc. in the full aperture so as not to be able to convert to 16:9. Interestingly, when viewing the DVD TV aperture, used on the BD, the C-stands and lighting flags can be clearly seen on the edge of what would have been hidden by the overscan area.
Given this reality, shouldn't studios be trying to preserve the intended framing in these transfers? Clearly this overscan material was never part of the original framing, it was meant as a protection in case more than the action-safe image was seen, rather than black bars (see even in the days of 4:3 TV this was a problem). Most of the old TV series I see broadcast in syndication today crop the frame to the action-safe area. This has the effect of bringing the subjects closer to the viewer, even if framing is tighter -- this is what was intended, something TV has always done to compensate for the relatively small viewing space compared to motion pictures, and what was intended.
Below you'll see examples of the full TV transmitted frame as offered by the BD transfer, the adjusted action safe frame as composed by the director and DP, and the way it would have appeared on a typical TV from the 80s (hard to believe we ever watched TV that way). In addition to the distance removed, notice all the extra space surrounding the focal point (which would be the speaking actors in the center). In particular, there is so much bright overhead lighting as to draw the eyes upward. That surely was never meant to be part of the composition, nor the space underneath the front chairs. I used TNG as I had been playing with this with respect to that thread discussion. But obviously this applies to all BD transfers. (FYI, the 80s TV recreation was based on aligning a 480p test pattern with that appearing on the TV itself, then matching the BD image size, so this is accurate of well over 10% loss of image on a typical 80's set)
At a minimum, shouldn't there be a way to adjust the framing from within the BD software in order to get this kind of precision cropping? I realize there would be a minimum loss of resolution at 1080p, but certainly less than up-resing a 480p or 720p frame to fill a 1080p screen. Or how about a simple window boxing matte you could turn on and off? Yes you could do this on your TV, but they zoom features really aren't very sophisticated, designed for little more than making the sides of a picture hit the sides of your set, by whatever brute force necessary.
Edited by Mac128 - 8/6/12 at 3:04pm
The first one is easy enough. Given that 480p, 720p and 1080p all look best in their native resolution without any scaling, doesn't it make more sense that the respective media is mapped natively to the exact pixels? Specifically, shouldn't 480p content be windowboxed? Granted it would make the image smaller, but the resolution would be sharper, and presumably the TV setting could be adjusted to show a scaled image to fill the screen, in much the same way a 4:3 image can be stretched now. But on my 32" 720p screen, it would make the SD image about the equivalent of a 19" TV which was typical of the image size most people watched these shows on originally.
Part 2 of this observation is that most DVD transfers are of the full TV transmitted frame, and the entire overscan area of the original broadcast image. In some cases, as much as 15% of the image could have been obscured by a television, especially in the 50s and 60s. And at least 10% of the image was obscured by most shadow-mask TVs into the 90s. Given this reality, and the fact that directors and DPs used a ground glass with action-safe markings to frame a scene, what exactly constitutes the OAR for most programs produced for TV? Granted the aspect ratio is 4:3, but how much of that should be transferred, especially for Blu-Ray? I mean people don't buy BD to use with 4:3 CRTs, and albeit LCDs have some overscan, but nowhere near the amount as a CRT TV for which the material was originally composed. Moreover, most of these TVs the overscan can be turned off, and I would venture that most BD collectors not only know how to turn it off, but make sure they buy a set with 1:1 pixel mapping ability in the first place.
I first noticed this phenomenon watching a DVD transfer of Irwin Allen's "Time Tunnel". In one scene, a bunch of soldiers run by the tunnel, the back of which was not masked, and they bunched up against the back of the set, accordion style, and then stood there waiting for "cut". Obviously, they would have been visible in the TV aperture, but the director knew they would be concealed in the overscan area. In Star Trek TNG, CBS used an example of a shot that had C-stands, lights, etc. in the full aperture so as not to be able to convert to 16:9. Interestingly, when viewing the DVD TV aperture, used on the BD, the C-stands and lighting flags can be clearly seen on the edge of what would have been hidden by the overscan area.
Given this reality, shouldn't studios be trying to preserve the intended framing in these transfers? Clearly this overscan material was never part of the original framing, it was meant as a protection in case more than the action-safe image was seen, rather than black bars (see even in the days of 4:3 TV this was a problem). Most of the old TV series I see broadcast in syndication today crop the frame to the action-safe area. This has the effect of bringing the subjects closer to the viewer, even if framing is tighter -- this is what was intended, something TV has always done to compensate for the relatively small viewing space compared to motion pictures, and what was intended.
Below you'll see examples of the full TV transmitted frame as offered by the BD transfer, the adjusted action safe frame as composed by the director and DP, and the way it would have appeared on a typical TV from the 80s (hard to believe we ever watched TV that way). In addition to the distance removed, notice all the extra space surrounding the focal point (which would be the speaking actors in the center). In particular, there is so much bright overhead lighting as to draw the eyes upward. That surely was never meant to be part of the composition, nor the space underneath the front chairs. I used TNG as I had been playing with this with respect to that thread discussion. But obviously this applies to all BD transfers. (FYI, the 80s TV recreation was based on aligning a 480p test pattern with that appearing on the TV itself, then matching the BD image size, so this is accurate of well over 10% loss of image on a typical 80's set)
At a minimum, shouldn't there be a way to adjust the framing from within the BD software in order to get this kind of precision cropping? I realize there would be a minimum loss of resolution at 1080p, but certainly less than up-resing a 480p or 720p frame to fill a 1080p screen. Or how about a simple window boxing matte you could turn on and off? Yes you could do this on your TV, but they zoom features really aren't very sophisticated, designed for little more than making the sides of a picture hit the sides of your set, by whatever brute force necessary.
Edited by Mac128 - 8/6/12 at 3:04pm
