OUTLAW 975 - Page 6

I would have to disagree with you on the price aspect. I doubt very much that Marantz, Onkyo, Integra and Anthem will be adjusting the prices of their prepros due to the cost or success of the 975.

Bill

I think part of the reason that many processors prices are as high as they are is the low volume of the market segment. Individuals who are willing to fork over the money, space, and time to purchase a 2+ box solution over an AVR make up a tiny fraction of the market, and tend to have a relatively low elasticity of demand. But if Outlaw sold a really sizable number, and a sizable market is found to exist at the price point, then I believe bigger players will move in with less fully featured, affordable pre-pro's. I doubt it, but it could happen.

The more cynical (realistic?) side of me believes at least 75% of all "High-end" pre-pro's are simply Veblen goods. As such, there is little incentive to have lower priced items.

In short, I agree with Bill Mac.

Nick,

I agree with your post. I just think at the $500 price point for the 975 one still has to buy an amp. So figure at least $500 for a M/C amp and one is at $1k. I think most will just buy an AVR for $500 and be done with it. Of course "most" are not members of AVS .

Bill

I tend to agree with you. The thing is, the masses tend to be uneducated on sound quality and how to achieve it and have probably never heard it, preferring their ear buds and tv speakers for movies. I once read a thread who's subject matter was the worst system set ups you've seen. Guys were reporting on how they'd seen subwoofers sitting on top of coffee tables and theater speakers all sitting on the TV stand.

On the other hand, I would submit that Dan Laufman is trying mightily to bring to market stripped down processors that break the 1000 barrier with his UMC models. If Emotiva can make it happen with better than AVR SQ, it could have a positive effect for the consumer. Even a 1500 TacT equipped XMC might force the big boys to bring to market more units in that price range if Emotiva starts to eat up market share. Of course, that's a tall order for a company that foisted a UMC on an unsuspecting public.

Edited by Bill Mac - 11/30/12 at 7:36pm

Agreeing with some of the earlier posts rooting for Outlaw...and I am betting on it - having just pre-ordered the 975. My family 5.1 room system has long been in need of a replacement to the AVR that I've been using as a prepro. At most I expect to have 3 HDMI sources, and HDMI audio decoding with good audio quality and video switching are my main objectives.

Well looks like it is shipping now, so you won't have to wait too long.

The display is a throw back to $59 Panny DVD players

Good luck to them.....would be perfect for my kid's HT but the lack of room correction is a deal breaker in my main system. They are still using a 1050 which is still going strong. My system has been boxed up since February due to some extensive water damage in my listening room and I was hoping this would fit the bill. I am just setting up now and would like something that won't break the bank for my preamp's HT bypass. I'm 80% music so really just looking for processing. I may try this side by side with the UMC 200 when and if it comes out.

One has to wonder if it was part of the reason why the price of the UMC-200 was dropped by $100 even before it shipped. True, holiday sale and all that, but the action is interesting when you would think they have no reason to cut the price.

Right. Most sane persons simply buy something that sounds good to them. The others come here to argue about whose is biggest.

Never were truer words spoken!

Wow - just stumbled upon this thread and am also surprised at some of the pre-release negativity of the 975. I'm currently using their 950 pre-pro and it's been great for me, though I have always bypassed their video switching completely. I've got amplification covered for the forseeable future, so all I really need is a preamp-processor. That's what makes something like this ideal for me. I can upgrade processors every few years and still keep my amplification, which is of high quality .

So the dilemma for me is whether to go for the Emotiva UMC-200 (with their questionable pre-pro track record) or the Outlaw 975. It appears that the Emotiva has 7.1 analog in, which is nice for flexibiliity, but lacks any analog video inputs. The Emotiva also has zone 2+3 support, which i don't need currently, but you never know. Plus the whole room correction thing that has been such a hot topic in this thread.

I think I'll wait a couple of months for people to directly compare these two products.

To me, the price range seems reasonable.

One of these cheap AVR's would be perfect for someone who already has amps but does not want a ton of "features". Coming from an Outlaw 990, either the 975 or Emotiva box could be a step up if functional and better SQ.

I'm still in the wait and see camp though. So far getting by just fine with BD player, old HDTV tuner and PC hooked directly to the projector. Getting my hi rez audio decoded by oppo and sent via analog to the 990 (which will do bass management on the 7.1 inputs). The other two sources are sending audio via toslink.

Another note on pricing: in roughly 2000, I bought a Marantz AV550 pre/pro new for about $1,000. It was excellent for my needs at the time, but when 2005 rolled around, I got the Outlaw 950 pre/pro to replace it ($699 retail). Despite costing significantly less, it was better in essentially every regard. Now, eight years later, I can get another pre/pro costing still less and looking to be better still. Time has driven down the prices, yet the capabilities are increasing. Of course these are just a few data-points, but I think the value in a budget preamp/processor is there (for me, at least).

I never went down the AVR path, though I've got a number of 70s vintage stereo receivers which I really enjoy. I like the flexibility that separates give me in the multimedia arena. I'm reluctant to get a mid-fi receiver and bypass the amplifier as an alternative. I don't need all the extra weight to lift around when I move, and I haven't missed all of the bells and whistles yet..

I used to feel the same way and kept my 950 and Outlaw amp combo for years and never considered using an AVR as a pre/pro. At the time something about having unused features and amps in the AVR used as a pre/pro rubbed me the wrong way. In addition I liked the idea of a manufacturer focusing on SQ and not all the bells and whistles.

Last year my 950 died and Outlaw was struggling to bring a pre/pro to market. With all other pre/pro $1K plus I noticed a Yamaha RX-A700 on sale at Amazon for ~$300! This is their entry level in the Adventage line and included pre-outs for connection to my amp. I decided to purchase the Yamaha and I have been very pleased with the results. I admit now, I have trouble hearing SQ differences in decent electronics (probably a good thing in this hobby) and I have come to appreciate some of the features on the Yamaha. Having a professional looking GUI, ability to rename inputs, one button scene selection, zone 2, ect shows maturity in a product, not lack of focus. Now when I saw the 975 I thought about it and still do, the one major problem is zone2 output, this is now a requirement. Ease of use is now another so I think I will stick with the Yamaha. Perhaps next time Outlaw. I do wish Outlaw well with this product and curious to see how it fairs in the market.

-Bob
Edited by bob_m10 - 12/4/12 at 9:37am

The 975 is exactly what I've been looking for...a no-frills pre/pro with decent SQ and a reasonable price. I can match it up with some power amps I've got in the closet and finish my 5.0 basement theater project with all the latest HD codecs at my disposal. Whenever a manufacture brings out a "stripper" model, it never fails to disappoint a great many people that are looking for just one or two other features or capabilities. That's what leads to mission creep by many manufactures who start out to build a "basic pre/pro" and end up with more than that in the end. It's a no win situation. I applaud Outlaw for sticking to their guns and putting the product dollar towards basic functionality and sound quality. I can always buy an HDMI switcher if I need more connectivity. The most troublesome EQ issues with most rooms occur in the lower octaves, and I can buy an outboard Audyssey Bass EQ or facsimile if need be.

Any word on when they will start shipping? Outlaw web site says early december, but it doesn't say what year. With the long delays that seem to go with any introduction of a new pre/pro(Outlaw in the past, but not just them) it would be encouraging if they release it on schedule.

At least 3 posters on the Outlaw forum reported getting their 975 units on 12/1 (it doesn't get more "early" December than that).

..............and said they would report back on the Saloon (Outlaw) what they're feelings were.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...nothing reported yet.

I think I will hang onto my 990 a little while longer.....

"So the dilemma for me is whether to go for the Emotiva UMC-200 (with their questionable pre-pro track record) or the Outlaw 975."

You know what, I seem to remember Outlaw having issues with their 990 and 970 prepros. You guys make it sound like this is the exclusive province of Emotiva. I even think some bedrock electronic companies, ie Onkyo and Denon had issues with their products too. Why pick on Emotiva as if they're the only ones who've had issues?

The Emotiva UMC-1 was/is a more flagrant example of a product promoted to do something(s) that it could not do. In their case it borders on outright deception. Others have problems but mostly, like in Onkyo's case, they fix whats wrong and don't deny that the problem(s) exist. The UMC-1 was a catastrophe for them and those of us who bought it. I have been very forthright about my feelings about my Onkyo's problem, even saying that they should have a recall and replace the 5508 with a 5509. I also said I wouldn't buy Onkyo again unless my unit was permanently fixed, not just with the same faulty replacement boards. I bought a Denon because of this.
Edited by Theresa - 12/7/12 at 3:39pm

Theresa, in a way, you've helped me make my point. I don't hear as much about the failings of products from other manufacturers as much as I do about Emotiva. I'm sorry for the frustration you've experienced. I know there are many UMC-1 owners who have gone through the same things as you've experienced. I sometimes can't help but think that maybe Emotiva has a bit of a cloud hanging over them due to their early association with AV123 or people thinking, "their prices are too good to be true, something has got to be inferior about their products at these prices!". It's no big deal though, people are starving and homeless and even worse off, so this is really not a big issue in comparison is it?

Probably a company that introduces a prepro 3-4 years ago and it still hasn't been released .

Bill

Outlaw and Emotiva (and Oppo) are accessible and will own up to problems. They might not be able to fix everything to our satisfaction, but they listen, learn and try to correct their errors.

I lump Denon-Marantz and Onkyo-Integra right in there with Ford, GM, Chrysler and all the rest. Their standard MO is to hide behind clueless dealers and more clueless call centers. I need a car, so I'm stuck with the crap we get from the auto industry. I've got no desire to bring that irritation into the hobby side of life.

I don't need a processor to survive modern life. I'll buy from Outlaw or Emotiva when the time comes.

Better on paper than sold to the public with repetitive problems year after year. Seems as Onkyo cab fool some of the people all the time.

Its quite obvious that you are looking to create issues in this thread with your constant remarks about specific companies and members in this thread. Bottom line is both Emotiva and Onkyo have had issues with their products over the years. You can spin it either way you wish but that is a fact.

Bill

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...reported 5 days ago:

http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=10539&Number=91912#Post91912

...I know...I read that. But where are the rest of the users???
Believe me, I go back with Outlaw from the beginning (I own a 990/7500 combo)...I just want to see more user reviews of the 975.......

If you had already read that, then it was rather disingenuous of you to falsely claim "nothing" reported yet. Maybe they have lives. Besides, they just got their units. It might take them more than a few days to set it up properly and form an opinion of how it sounds in their system.