OUTLAW 975 - Page 2

But remember, this is Emotiva's first processor after their disaster UMC pro. Emotiva actually gave glowing reports of how it was performing flawlessly before they released it, albeit over a year late. And it was so bad they extended the 30 day trial to try to keep buyers holding onto it. Anyway, I'd wait a while to see if they can actually do a working processor before taking them at their word. The UPA amps seem not bad as long as you don't mind fans in your amp.

I have to wonder what is the advantage of a low priced prepro that is lacking in many features found on many current AVRs? The 975 has no room correction that many find very useful and not just another "fancy" added feature. For most I would think a $800-1000 AVR with Audyssey XT or XT32 would be the better choice. If one needs the additional power they can always add an amp further down the road.

Bill

I guess it all depends on what you want, but at $550 I do not see value with this product.
AVR's start to have preamp outs around the $850 price point and if you buy the outgoing model they can be had for $600 sometimes less.
If the 975's only claim to fame is 7.1 channel preout and some legacy audio inputs (but no phono input) I just don't see where it fits.

It does seem odd that not one but two companies are trotting out these entry level processors which are essentially stripped down models. The AVR route will always give you more bang for buck. I currently run an Onkyo 876 as a processor with an Outlaw 7125. I'd like to get a dedicated processor with top shelf room correction in about a year, and right now there seems to be little in the way of options below the 2500 mark. I was hoping that Outlaw would come through with the 998, but I haven't heard if they are still going to try another route since it got cancelled. So besides Onkyo/Integra(With Marantz you have to spend more to get the flagship Audyssey), or Emotiva, which I am leary of, is there any other way to go?

I personally am waiting for the XMC-1, once it ships with Tact. At that price point and feature set it makes for sense for me. I think the only(?) selling point of the lower cost pre/pros is the warranty (5 yr for Emotiva) and pairing it up with a better amplifier than what most AVRs have. If you really want the latest features many AVRs have, then AVR is the way to go.

Agreed!

This pre-pro is about 2 years too late for that level of pricing. Cut 50% then MAYBE it's worth buying.

Yes Emotiva has given a shipping date of December 1st.
http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200

Last I knew, Outlaw was shipping 'sometime' early December. So that ACTUALLY releases the UMC-200 BEFORE the 975.

Since neither are in anyone’s hands YET. All we can do is compare them on paper.
In my opinion the UMC-200 is the better option.

I disagree...
Example, you can get the Emotiva UPA-700 amp (80X7) right now for $429 during the holidays. Or $499 regular pricing. Then pick up the UMC-200 for $599 during the holidays. Or $699 regular pricing.
$1028 isn’t bad for separates with quite a few features.
For existing Emotiva customers with an Emotiva upgrade card, they can have the combo for $848.40.
That's pretty solid pricing IMHO.

We'll see I guess.
My UMC-1 is funtioning flawlessly.

I think you should have said in your response above that FOR ME a receiver is the best option. Maybe for someone else, separates are the way to go.
Not everyone needs a receiver to brush their teeth and fold their clothes.
In my situation, I have no use for most of the whistles and bells found in a receiver.
I'm not advocating for the 975 or UMC-200. I own neither. I don’t plan to buy either one.
But if I were going to pull the trigger today, I'd get the UMC-200.
Sure, it's a little more than the 975, but for the extra hundred bucks, you get a lot more as well.

+1

I guess you don't realize this, but at the date of my post which you quoted, Emotiva had not given a shipping date.

Uh, perhaps you should re-read my post which you quoted. In it I do not say that a receiver is the best option, nor do I say a processor is the best option. I simply say an AVR will give you more bang for buck. That means, more features and options for a given price. Some people, myself included, are not looking for best bang for buck at this point, I'm looking for best SQ for 2500 or less.

Please describe the "lot more" that you get with the UMC. It doesn't have video upscaling like the 975 does, but then it has some sort of room correction(although it's pretty weak compared to Audyssey) whereas the 975 doesn't.
Edited by runnin' - 11/21/12 at 8:01am

Do you deny the many bugs, issues and firmware updates that promise after promise did not fix the UMC? If so, I suggest reading the UMC thread on this forum, it may surprise you. Although your UMC is functioning flawlessly(word is the bass eq is hardwired so that it's handled incorrectly), a test sample of one is probably not the most reliable data.
Edited by runnin' - 11/21/12 at 7:44am

I'm afraid Outlaw has misread the market on this one, we'll see. If they sell more than a few to the most hardcore fans I'll be surprised.Best of luck to them.

Your arguing semantics now...
When you say an item is the best bang for the buck, I think most would conclude that you mean that item to be the better option. Again... it's personal preference. Some people like the whistles and bells of a receiver. Others don't... I'll leave it at that, because it is really nothing more than a speaker debate in that everyone hears things differently.

So with that statement, are you claiming that separates sound better.
I aint touchin' that one. That's a whole nother debate.


As far as comparing EmoQ to Audyssey. I'd rather not go there either.
One thing I do like about EmoQ is that I can tweak the final settings to my tastes. Can you do that with Audyssey?

I don’t deny that there were issues with the UMC-1 in the beginning. I just bought mine about ¾ year ago, not to long after the last FW update. When I was reading the forums during my decision process, I was not sure what to expect when the UMC-1 arrived. I called Emotiva multiple times. Told them of my unique set-up. I have a 35 foot HDMI run from my equipment to my projector. Since people were complaining about handshake issues with it, I was concerned with the long cable run. I then had the opportunity to demo the UMC-1 at two local friends homes and both had nothing but great things to say about it. So I pulled the trigger. I gotta say I haven’t been disappointed in the least.
One thing I’ve learned while browsing the various on line forums is that we are all critics of even the smallest glitch. Add to the fact that in some cases, posts are made more out of agenda than anything else.
We’ll see what people say about these processors once a decent amount of people get them into their hands. I personally think that both processors will be breaking new ground in obtaining separates on a budget.

As a matter of fact, I have a projector with a 35' run too. Tried a cheap cable which couldn't pass 1080p when my old 24' cable could. Bought a 35' from Blue Jeans, problem solved!

That's great to hear runnin'... do you have a dedicated room?

Andrew Robinson has a unit from Outlaw that he is reviewing.

Looking forward to reading the review.

I find it strange, however, that they already sent units out for review yet there is no kention of what type of DACs and scalers they use.

I doubt they are anything special. They're probably being silent on it because they realize 99% of the population won't hear a difference in DACs or see a difference in scalers unless the scaler is really bad.

I thought I read they were using Cirrus chips somewhere, but it didn't mention which.

Andrew has already posted some initial impressions at HTE.

Not quite, it's a den but it's 13x25' so it's a nice size. I've been upgrading gradually in the last two years. Bought a Hsu VTH 15H and a Sony BDP570 the first year, and an Outlaw amp 7125 earlier this year.

The big difference in my eyes is the UMC-200 has room correction which the user can also configure. I think it was a mistake on Outlaw's part to not offer anything in this area as even lower-end receivers include some form of room correction these days.

The other problem is that this pre-pro only have 4 HDMI input. The featureset of this pre-pro is no better than a $199 receivers from Denon/Pioneer/Yamaha.

You are correct, but I think this was Outlaw's only remaining option. My understanding is that they were intending to release a much more capable pre/pro, but for one reason or another that ability was abruptly yanked from them. This pre/pro is all they had left. Contrast that with Emotiva, who is now 100% in control of the design, and has no worries about other parties suddenly changing their minds and tanking a project. Perhaps Outlaw can find a reliable partner in the future and produce something more advanced some day.

The only thing Outlaw should do is dropping the price to no more than $149. If a receiver with the same/better capability can sell for $199 at the stores, there is no excuse for Outlaw to not be able to sell direct this severely dated pre-pro for $149 or less.

They did design a more advanced unit, but were kicked out of the production facility by one of the larger suppliers. They had everything wrapped up and were ready to begin when the plug was pulled. Huge blow to outlaw and really low blow by bigger company.

I don't know if demanding a $150 price point is reasonable.
Engineers spent time designing it and the manufacturing had to be setup and organized.
All of that costs a lot of money, even when getting it done in China.
There has to be a reasonable profit margin or there is no reason to do business.
Outlaw's own projection for the customer base to be legacy equipment owners that want to add HDMI connectivity dictate that this will be a low volume product even in a best case scenario, so there will not really be a good opportunity to achieve profit through scale.
If the product does not sell they may discontinue it and sell off the inventory at a loss.
Even though I do not see value in the product I understand why the pricing may need to be where it is.

I've been reading responses on the Outlaw forum, and for those who are interested, many still have the old 990 which was released in 2006 I think. All some want is HDMI switching.

As far as features go, room correction is a big one for me, but I'd be looking for an addition to my main system. As a second system in the bedroom or something, this would be doable. But I agree, expecting something like this to cost 150 or so doesn't take into account the many costs associated with bringing a model to market. It might only be worth that much to some, but it's kind of a new segment. We'll see I suppose.

Talking about it having 4 HDMI inputs, the Emotiva model only has 4 and will have their Emo room correction which was panned by many. And it has no video processing(in fact their upcoming flagship model will also have none!) yet is priced even higher than the 975. Maybe there is something to this segment after all.