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Could someone help me with an I7 gaming rig?

post #1 of 67
Thread Starter 
My main rig is still down and I might just upgrade the cpu, memory and board. I am getting a 680gtx as well but one thing at a time. its at a shop and if the boards dead im gonna pull the trigger on that and use my old gpu for now. id rather upgrade the gpu but I need a rig up and running.

I dont overclock so will this build work?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837R

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231487

any advice or other things to consider?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

My main rig is still down and I might just upgrade the cpu, memory and board. I am getting a 680gtx as well but one thing at a time. its at a shop and if the boards dead im gonna pull the trigger on that and use my old gpu for now. id rather upgrade the gpu but I need a rig up and running.
I dont overclock so will this build work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131837R
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116501
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231487
any advice or other things to consider?

To put this gently... this is a horrible build.

First, an i7 offers no advantage at all over an i5 for gaming (with the exception of CPU turns in Civ 5).
Second, if you're not overclocking then there is no point at all to buying a "K" chip - the only thing the K does is allow overclocking.
Third, 32GB of ram is pointless for a gaming rig. Most games have a hard cap of 2G memory usage (32-bit executables that that don't use PAE). Add in a couple other large programs with Windows and you'll still be hard pressed to max out 8G. Even if you want to be paranoid 16G is more than enough.
Fourth, open box items on Newegg are a horrible gamble. They don't thoroughly test returns, so you're basically doing the testing for them. Plus, there's never a guarantee that it will have any accessories with it. Additionally, like the "K" series chip, the only thing Z77 offers over H77 is the ability to overclock.
Finally, the GTX680 is a really bad value. The GTX670 comes within 7% of the 680 on average, and costs $100 less. And the GTX670 will crush pretty much any game at 1900x1200 or below. Unless you're running 2560x1600, or multimonitor, the 670 is arguably overkill, and the 680 is without a doubt pants-on-head-silly to buy.

You could easily shave $300 off that build and have no perceptible difference in performance, which you could put in your pocket, or maybe even grab a nice 256G SSD (which is awesome for day-to-day tasks), or whatever.

You've got a classic case of overbuying for no real benefit.
post #3 of 67
I tend to disagree with some of this. K cpu is such a small amount more it makes no sense not to get it. At some point you may want a free bump in performance. Pretty much any of them should do 4ghz on stock volts. And 4.5 is easy for any novice willing to read a guide.

Even if you are never going to overclock resell value alone is plenty for me.

For strictly gaming I agree an i7 doesn't give much of an advantage. At least not with one graphics card.

I agree on the ram 16gb is still total overkill but cheap these days. Pretty sure you'll never max an 8gb kit.

I have had multiple newegg open box items. Great way to get a sweet deal. But you have to be willing to possibly RMA the board. For some of the company's its not on newegg. When people return an asus board it goes straight to asus. So newegg gets it back just like a normal person would. I guess they don't test again assuming asus did.

I had an asus maximus gene z and an msi 6950 that both needed to be sent back as they were not working properly. Both open box items.

You need the z77 chipset to oc. If you don't want the option h77 will work fine . But they generally have less features .

I said the same thing in the other thread about the 670. I downgraded from a 680 to 670 and even at 2560x1440 I notice no performance drop.
post #4 of 67
Thread Starter 
well I did actually want to revisit civ 5 since I never could finish the later years but if you think the 670 and the other suggestions would do that great. when it first came out on my old system it was like 10 minutes a turn and it was miserable. My last system was pure overkill and a complete waste of money.

found out it was a 2nd bad power supply so I am going to grab a cheapo til mine comes back under warranty.

I was going to get a nice isp display the 670 will be able to handle that right or did I just screw this all up?
post #5 of 67
One good reason to buy a K if you happen to shop at Micro Center is that they always have the "$50 off a motherboard" bundles with the K processors which ends up making them cheaper than the non-Ks. Which is why I have an I5-2500K and an I5-3570K, because it was cheaper that way, even though they'll never be overclocked.
post #6 of 67
Well he did post newegg links. I assume if he's by a micro center he would use it. But your right and if he is by one and didn't know that's a nice surprise.

I always wonder why someone would not overclock one of these chips. It's so easy and free. I understand not going extreme. Or if it's in an htpc but in my main pc I'll take all the free performance I can get.
post #7 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I tend to disagree with some of this. K cpu is such a small amount more it makes no sense not to get it. At some point you may want a free bump in performance. Pretty much any of them should do 4ghz on stock volts. And 4.5 is easy for any novice willing to read a guide.
Even if you are never going to overclock resell value alone is plenty for me.

You missed the part where he said he's not going to overclock. I would recommend a K + Z77 + Hyper 212 Evo, but if he's not going to OC then it's wasted money to buy a K/Z77.
Quote:
For strictly gaming I agree an i7 doesn't give much of an advantage. At least not with one graphics card.

You have any benchmarks on this? I've never heard of extra cores/HT making any difference with an SLI config/High resolutions (right now 4 is the sweet spot and will likely stay that way for the lifespan of any system you buy now).

Quote:
I have had multiple newegg open box items. Great way to get a sweet deal. But you have to be willing to possibly RMA the board. For some of the company's its not on newegg. When people return an asus board it goes straight to asus. So newegg gets it back just like a normal person would. I guess they don't test again assuming asus did.

Maybe it's just me, but the savings rarely outweigh the possibility you'll get a dud (which is much higher since it's an open box). You don't get shipping refunded, and you're out the time it'll take to process the return. With the amount of money the OP is throwing around, it makes no sense to save costs by going open box.
post #8 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

well I did actually want to revisit civ 5 since I never could finish the later years but if you think the 670 and the other suggestions would do that great. when it first came out on my old system it was like 10 minutes a turn and it was miserable. My last system was pure overkill and a complete waste of money.
found out it was a 2nd bad power supply so I am going to grab a cheapo til mine comes back under warranty.
I was going to get a nice isp display the 670 will be able to handle that right or did I just screw this all up?

I don't know what your old system was, but it's not like an i5 is going to take 10 minutes and the i7 will take 30 seconds - the i7 would have a moderate advantage, but certainly not worth paying a $100 premium for!

IPS screens don't have anything to do with what your GPU can handle. It's the screen resolution. At 1900x1200 the GTX670 will max out almost every game. It's borderline overkill, especially if the 660Ti comes out soon at $300 as rumored. At 2560x1600 it's still a great card.
post #9 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

well I did actually want to revisit civ 5 since I never could finish the later years but if you think the 670 and the other suggestions would do that great. when it first came out on my old system it was like 10 minutes a turn and it was miserable. My last system was pure overkill and a complete waste of money.
found out it was a 2nd bad power supply so I am going to grab a cheapo til mine comes back under warranty.
I was going to get a nice isp display the 670 will be able to handle that right or did I just screw this all up?

ISP monitors are limited to 60Hz. A GTX 670 will maintain above 60FPS with max settings at max resolutions in just about all games so it isn't an issue.
post #10 of 67
For the i7 I was referring to tri and quad sli. It will definitely help with crazy setups like that just like a 3930k will even more.

I run a 670 with a 1440p ips.
It handles games great. But if you want to max everything on some games it will hammer the card pretty good.

In BF3 I get excellent frames on ultra with no aa. Like 70-80fps. But with msaa all the way up it will drop below 60 quite a bit.

AA is what you will need to turn down on the demanding games. But I have compared with and without and I don't really notice. They say AA isn't really needed at high resolutions.
post #11 of 67
Thread Starter 
I did order the 670 so thanks for that. for that slight increase not worth it and even if I have to scale back a bit on some super demanding game thats ok. Its gonna look sharp especially with an ips display.

And thanks in general for the input. Its been 2-3 years since I built my htpc and like 5 since I built a gaming rig. I built an office machine in between but that was ez.

But yeah it seems like hardware has dramatically changed since the conroe was introduced which is my current build.

I am looking at 2 year cycles for gpu upgrades and 4 year cycles for cpu upgrades. Id say thats a pretty beefy system and will keep up with gaming trends if not overkill but its my main hobby. I love gaming.

The reason why I said im not overclocking is I tried that route, went water cooling, did the research etc etc and had a relatively stable system. I did spend quite a lot making sure it was stable. But then I got a blue screen and another and started dropping the clock. It would crash in game and I was so frustrated. I ripped out all the gear and went to stock. I gave it to a local computer store and said hey if someone here can use this feel free. they were like wtf of course since it was like super high end watercooling like close to $1000 if I remember right. I didnt want to see that crap ever again.

To me it wasnt worth it. Maybe things have changed and it seems they have. I wouldnt mind a truly safe overclock but it would instantly be removed if I got a blue screen. I just dont want it to ruin my gaming experience if the whole point for me is having a nice rig. its not too nice if it crashes all the time in game. I am a member at extreme overclockers and that other huge one but havent logged in in a long time. I used to just enjoy reading about the high clocks etc.

Anyways if you can get a REALLY stable overclock cool I like that idea. I can do the research if you can assure me of stability hehe. To me it was a $600 build what I picked out and it didnt seem like a lot of money. If 16gb of memory would be overkill and save $100 cool as I said im out of the loop. as far as open box I think they are right and newegg gets boards that have been checked. sometimes they dont have the manual etc or whatever but I have no need for that. I just need the board and it seemed like a substantial savings. It would suck getting a bad one but I guess Id take the risk of having a delay to save that much money. as far as bells and whistles go on the board itself I would have to rely on you guys to tell me what I do or dont need.

But yeah I guess if theres still a risk of having an overclock cause headaches I dont want that I probably have no need for the extra cpu speed anyways with that gpu. However if its as easy as you say that sounds like a no brainer for only a little bit more money. I am confused as to how I can save a whole $300. I mean if you are seriously talking similar performance hell yeah that sounds great. The gpu seems more the issue in games than cpu and memory. I do want to go above 8gb of memory maybe its the ddr2 but I find I am constantly butting up against the limit. I am a huge multi tasker beyond what most people can imagine and I keep many tabs on chrome open and its a huge issue. I have to close chrome to game and I dont like having to do that.

If you got some build ideas toss em out here. I like this discussion and thanks for helping ignorant me.
post #12 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

To me it wasnt worth it. Maybe things have changed and it seems they have.

My reaction is that it's actually changed in the opposite reaction. CPU prices have really come down while performance has skyrocketed. It used to be seriously expensive to buy a really high performance CPU, so you could save hundreds of dollars by overclocking a much cheaper CPU. Now the prices are far lower and far more compressed. You can buy an very strong 15-3570K for under $200, an i7 for just over $200, or a really strong i7-3770K for under $300. It's a lot easier, and probably just about as cheap, to simply pay more to step up a couple processor levels than it is to mess with the trouble and expense of extra cooling, especially liquid cooling.

So in my view there's actually less reason to overclock now than there used to be. To me the primary reason now would just be for the hobbyist "because I can", not because it's necessary.

For the serious gamers here, is there any reason one would need more than an i5-3570K for a gaming machine assuming you were using top end graphics cards? Is any more cpu power than that required or even useful? If you were using a GTX670, or let's say hypothetically you went all out and got a GTX690. Would using an 3770K or even say a 3960X yield any different performance or experience than a 3570K?
post #13 of 67
Thread Starter 
zon are you saying with the 670 I bought that going with an I5 is a good match? For me this would speed up the time frame I get me a shiny new pc so please let me pull that trigger soon than later!
post #14 of 67
I'm not a gamer these days, so I don't know. That's why I asked the question of the serious gamers here.

I was under the impression that most of the load is on the gpu, so wondered whether getting a stronger processor than a 3570K would actually deliver any increased performance. But that was a genuine question, not a rhetorical one.
post #15 of 67
Thread Starter 
poked around google a bit and it seems an i5 is overkill even for gaming combined with the 670 so thanks everyone. thats a $300 savings and can still do the H77 open box for ~ $100 or so.
post #16 of 67
i5 is excellent for gaming. Why do you say its overkill? Did you mean the i7.

If the i5 is overkill what do you plan to get? i5 and 670 are perfect together imo. And will last quite a while.
post #17 of 67
I'd definitely recommend overclocking the GTX 670 as the card beats a stock 680 when overclocked. It is very easy, although it does take a few hours to dial it in and verify stability. The air cooling on the aftermarket cards is pretty good so there is no need to to run them on water. There is a great guide at http://www.overclock.net/t/1265110/the-gtx-670-overclocking-master-guide. After my initial adjustment session I had one crash, tweaked my settings and have been fine since.

CPU overclocking with ivy bridge is also pretty straight forward now too and can be done quite easily on air. I've settled mine at a conservative overclock and have had no stability issues at all.
post #18 of 67
Thread Starter 
whiteboy I just meant it seems like a decent I5 is really freakin fast. And thanks for all the help my 670 should be here tomorrow and I cant wait! im gonna remote desktop to my machine and run a benchmark to compare that with the 670 and then once again with the stock new cpu etc and then once again maybe ill take a few hours on a saturday to try and do a small OC.

cool kesawi Ill check that out. i was going to get a decent cpu cooler. any recommendations?
post #19 of 67
I agree the 670s are very easy to oc.

The hyper 212 evo is a good cheap cpu cooler. But if you don't buy the k cpu and z77 board I don't really see the need. Yes the stock cooler is not great but it should cool within spec. Ivy Bridge does run pretty hot though.
post #20 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvarisco View Post

To put this gently... this is a horrible build.
First, an i7 offers no advantage at all over an i5 for gaming (with the exception of CPU turns in Civ 5).
Second, if you're not overclocking then there is no point at all to buying a "K" chip - the only thing the K does is allow overclocking.
Third, 32GB of ram is pointless for a gaming rig. Most games have a hard cap of 2G memory usage (32-bit executables that that don't use PAE). Add in a couple other large programs with Windows and you'll still be hard pressed to max out 8G. Even if you want to be paranoid 16G is more than enough.
Fourth, open box items on Newegg are a horrible gamble. They don't thoroughly test returns, so you're basically doing the testing for them. Plus, there's never a guarantee that it will have any accessories with it. Additionally, like the "K" series chip, the only thing Z77 offers over H77 is the ability to overclock.
Finally, the GTX680 is a really bad value. The GTX670 comes within 7% of the 680 on average, and costs $100 less. And the GTX670 will crush pretty much any game at 1900x1200 or below. Unless you're running 2560x1600, or multimonitor, the 670 is arguably overkill, and the 680 is without a doubt pants-on-head-silly to buy.
You could easily shave $300 off that build and have no perceptible difference in performance, which you could put in your pocket, or maybe even grab a nice 256G SSD (which is awesome for day-to-day tasks), or whatever.
You've got a classic case of overbuying for no real benefit.

Your a little harsh here.


His build was not the bad at all.

Sure you can get an i5 that will deliver basically the same performance as an i7. OP can decide if he wants the extra costs for the very small improvement in CPU speed, and bragging rights. Both i5 or i7 would be fine. i5 is a better value.

Second- 32GB is too much. Downgrade to 16GB. Spend the extra on a faster memory clock speed if anything. You don't need more than 16GB. You don't need a faster memory clock unless you plan to overclock

Z77 is a great choice. Even with the ASUS auto overclock software- you can get a nice boost in performance with the software taking most of the guess work out of it. It has an auto tuner even a noob could achieve a performance boost with knowing nothing.

K series chips are worth more when you resell and for the very small cost I think I would at least want to option for the overclock speed boost in the future. It's not hard to find a chart or guide on overclocking that specific CPU and board.

While he might not do it now... for a small cost it might be worth it to be able to do it later.

That is how I started overclocking.
post #21 of 67
+1 on the 212 EVO from coolermaster. Cheap good CPU cooler.

What case and PSU are you looking at?

You know AMD gives you more video card performance for the buck right ???
post #22 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

whiteboy I just meant it seems like a decent I5 is really freakin fast. And thanks for all the help my 670 should be here tomorrow and I cant wait! im gonna remote desktop to my machine and run a benchmark to compare that with the 670 and then once again with the stock new cpu etc and then once again maybe ill take a few hours on a saturday to try and do a small OC.
cool kesawi Ill check that out. i was going to get a decent cpu cooler. any recommendations?

Just for a little perspective, do you think you could still game on an i7-880? I would think so. Yet a i5-3570k is considerably faster. And that 880 was nearly $600 just a couple of years ago while the 3570k is about $200.

I second the Hyper 212. Effective and inexpensive; what's not to like? But really, if you're not overclocking, the stock cooler is just fine.
post #23 of 67
Thread Starter 
well I already bought the card but I had read the 670s and 680s were more bang for buck. regardless its close.
post #24 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogormask View Post

well I already bought the card but I had read the 670s and 680s were more bang for buck. regardless its close.

I would not sweat it. If anything the Nvidia stuff is probably a bit more stable anyhow.
post #25 of 67
post #26 of 67
I would stay away from auto overclocking. The board will usually give the chip much more voltage than needed to ensure stability.
post #27 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I would stay away from auto overclocking. The board will usually give the chip much more voltage than needed to ensure stability.

My experience is you can do that... and abuse it significantly and the CPU is still fine.

no worries.

It is pretty hard to smoke a CPU if your intelligent about the process.

It usually needs to be extreme overclocks to damage a CPU.

Hitting a thermal throttle limit is a bit easier... But that is not going to damage a CPU unless you sustain it. (that would not be the intelligent thing to do)

There is plenty of youtube videos and guides about specific chip and boards that anyone that wanted to follow the "safe" and recommended way to overclock would not have to worry that much about damage or over volting things.

Bottom line is that it is plenty safe if your smart about things. If you don't know what your doing then you should learn before you mess things up. Or- Don't overclock.
post #28 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Your a little harsh here.
His build was not the bad at all.

Yes it was.
Quote:
Sure you can get an i5 that will deliver basically the same performance as an i7. OP can decide if he wants the extra costs for the very small improvement in CPU speed, and bragging rights. Both i5 or i7 would be fine. i5 is a better value.
What bragging value? Does anybody really give a damn if you have an i5 or i7? I'm not sure why wasting $100 for "bragging rights" makes any sense at all. Hell, you can fake your computer spec forum sig if you're self-worth is that dependant on computer numbers.
Quote:
Spend the extra on a faster memory clock speed if anything.

This is flatout wrong. Anything over DDR3 1333 provides no performance increase at all. Okay, you get like a 2% speed boost in unzipping .rars if you have DDR 2133. And you don't need higher speed to get a great overclock - I got my i5 2500K to 4.5Ghz on DDR3 1333. Maybe if you're shooting for the moon on overclocking but he's talking about not overclocking at all. The chances of him going for 5Ghz or something crazy where faster RAM would help is essentially 0.
Quote:
Z77 is a great choice. Even with the ASUS auto overclock software- you can get a nice boost in performance with the software taking most of the guess work out of it. It has an auto tuner even a noob could achieve a performance boost with knowing nothing.
K series chips are worth more when you resell and for the very small cost I think I would at least want to option for the overclock speed boost in the future. It's not hard to find a chart or guide on overclocking that specific CPU and board.
While he might not do it now... for a small cost it might be worth it to be able to do it later.
That is how I started overclocking.

This I will agree with. But he said no overclocking, so I advised him on how to save money if that was his decision.
post #29 of 67
Thread Starter 
yeah and thanks man like I said you are going to save me $300!!!! thats cool man. Im out of the loop like I said and jsut assumed that the I7 smoked the I5 and it doesnt. I also found out that overclocking gpus and cpus has drastically changed and thats cool too. I had an all water cooled rig including duel water gpus. it was a nightmare. you offered a nice midrange build and performance wise its top notch. thanks.
post #30 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by jvarisco View Post


What bragging value? Does anybody really give a damn if you have an i5 or i7? I'm not sure why wasting $100 for "bragging rights" makes any sense at all. Hell, you can fake your computer spec forum sig if you're self-worth is that dependant on computer numbers.

It may not make any sense, but you don't think a lot of gamers build unnecessarily overpowered systems just so they can brag to their buddies they have the fastest system? It's like people buying unnecessarily overpowered cars just so they can say they have the fastest car. The speed limit is still the same.

And personally, if I need anything more than a stock i5-2500K or i5-3570K I'd spend a little extra to get a $240 i7-2600K and run it stock before I'd run my the i5 at 4.5Ghz, and I'll get better performance. With the small price increments today for steps up in CPU, I really don't see the point of overclocking.
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