Resolving Issues With Elemental Designs - Page 6

Did any of you guys use a credit card such as Discover to buy any of this. What about giving them a call and complain about non delivered product and possible online fraud on Ed's part?



Good luck,

Robert

I just read this post and it answers my previous question- partially.


Good luck,

Robert

I received a replacement amp sometime last year. It was pretty obvious they were having problems. I first received an amp that apparently came from their "lab". He then sent another one that was in "newer" condition. The whole process felt very strange.

What I can't understand is how these guys aren't in jail. Alex clearly was selling goods KNOWING the doors were going to close. That's clearly fraud.

You can tell when a company is having issues. Even when I originally bought my 2 subs the vibe was just wrong. Well water under the bridge now. I'm just sorry for all the folks that got taken. I hope you are able to get some recompense out of this.

Did any of you innocent customers who lost funds question the guys who posted that eD is the best thing next to sliced bread ? Are there any of those guys around on these forums..?

Damn...Was I lucky? I was considering one and then I got to know that lots of folks were waiting for ever to receive a sub and moved on. Having said that, I have not ended up buying any sub bcoz of some unexpected expenses.

I am not referring to folks who gave a genuine opinion. I am referring to the guys who push and up-sell and make it sound like there is nothng better than eD,

eD had a lot of fanboys that defended their poor business practices and poor communications. When I posted that an eD employee (Alex) told me via a warranty call that if my woofer was blown it was my own fault because I used Audyssey and was obviously running the sub hot (which I was not). Alex basically came to this conclusion before even troubleshooting with me and I knew after that call that I was on my own. eD was clearly in denial mode and was trying to excuse themselves from warranty work because they were most likely already in dire straits. Of course a couple of eD fanboys called me a liar and defended eD. Things got really bad to the point that most of us knew something was really wrong with eD, but Alex was a very convincing and some people put him on a pedestal and defended him almost to the bitter end.

And yeah, I also think Alex was knowingly taking money when he knew he could not provide a product or honor the warranty (which is also fraud in my book). I really think some folks in that company should get jail time for what they did. I doubt they will, but I really hope Alex does not try to start another company like so many of these fraudsters try and do.

I also was going to get one of their subs until I read about all the delays in getting people orders out. I will admit that I do own 3 eD[c]12 speakers that I bought used from forum members here within the past year and they are pretty damn good speakers. At least in my case I am not dealing with any powered speakers and if something does go wrong I should be able to source parts from PE.

I just want to share my eD experience. My eD A3-250 sub is less than a year old. But like the vast majority, of late, I had issues. After using the sub for about a month, I noticed that the sub was chirping during moderately heavy LFE scenes in movies. I don't run Audyssey, so I knew eD couldn't pull that excuse when I called for support. However, Alex managed to find a way to tell me I was running the sub too hot and the chirping was the sub clipping. The crazy thing was that I had the sub at level at -1 in my receiver(per an initial conversation with Alex) and the gain knob barely turned up past zero on the sub. At that point, I knew I was screwed and sure enough eD is now out of business. Lesson learned and money lost.

I continued to use the sub until yesterday, when my new Outlaw LFM-1 EX arrived. Now the eD sub is collecting dust my basement.

Hello guys, I am sorry to hear that this had happen. But Elemental Designs is in violation of federal laws -18 U.S.C. sect 1343. This is wire Fraud and the law reads.

Whoever,having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations or promises,transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire,radio,or television communication in interstate or foreign commence any writing, signs,signals,pictures,or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years or both.

Fraud is a broad term that refers to variety of offenses involving dishonesty or "fraudulent acts" in essence, fraud is the intentional deception of a person or entity by another made for monetary or personal gain. Also it can be a civil matter.

You can call the U.S. Attorney General office. I hope this help you guys, and good luck.

They didn't do it with the intent of fraud. Plus the company is gone, there are no assets to liquidate. Sorry to everyone who lost money but try all actions you have. Don't be surprised if you can't do anything.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

You don't know what the intent was. I think it is pretty obvious that they were happily accepting money from people (international even), while at the same time, not knowing when (or even if) they will be able to ship product. Go back and read through the thread. This was a common tactic at eD. Take people's money and then leave them wondering when they will get the product. And I think we have enough evidence to know that eD simply could not, and would not, stand by their warranty which has to be a form of fraud as well.

Say what you want, but these guys ripped people off of thousands and thousands of dollars. Someone should go to jail.

+1. Scrupulous operations don't charge your card or PayPal account until they actually ship the product. Even custom built to order outfits only charge a modest deposit, billing the full balance only when they ship. Those who take payment from Peter in order to build a cab that Paul long ago payed for are involved in a Ponzi scheme, and deserve to suffer the penalties prescribed for that offense.

Remember, Paypal is a payment option selected by the buyer that transfers money instantly from you to the company. It's the buyers choice to use an option that takes their money right away, eD didn't have to "charge" anything. I've never seen an option where someone could check out via Paypal with the option for Paypal to actually charge them later. If they've added that functionality, why not just use your credit card?

PayPal can work just like a credit card, where the seller is assigned an authorization for the amount of the sale and that amount is put on hold in the buyer's PayPal account until the seller ships, at which point the seller actually receives the funds. This option is seller based and it's how most legitimate enterprises selling high ticket items do it.

Neat. I'd never seen that option. I really don't shop often with Paypal and never with large ticket items because I'd just use my CC but nice for people that can't/won't get one and want an authorization via their bank account.

You'd only become aware of it if you use PayPal often and see it in action. I use PayPal far more than my CC, as it works like a debit card, and I don't end up spending money I don't yet have.

That sounds nice, but is pretty far from the reality of many purchases, and opposite any custom furniture someone might order. As an attorney counseled me early on in my business... "Any contract is only as good as the person or business you sign it with." The Ponzi scheme type operation is a valid concern, but in a business of any size with typical cash flow realities, that isn't a clear definition, but rather a large grey area that could change constantly depending on many factors. Enthusiasts/customers can guess at what might be happening and watch for possible red flags, but the supposed red flags can also be the result of other realities of operation, and not have any indication of a business's health. Of course if you see many compounding signals of issues, proceed with caution.

It's important to understand how your payment options function and most useful is the understanding that PayPal and many others make refunds very simple within 60 days, where things get more difficult after that time period, with some credit cards being a bit more flexible or helpful. If you have any concerns with a company and want additional peace of mind, choose an appropriate payment method. Regardless of how you make a payment, your purchase is a vote of confidence in a business and its willingness to operate in a honest and predictable manner.

I did mention that custom orders might require a deposit. But anyone who asked me for payment in full before the item was ready to be shipped wouldn't get my business. Well, Howard Dumble maybe, but that's about it, and only because he offers something that no one else does. There are way too many sources for speakers.

looking at both my paypal accounts, my business account, and my personal one for buying stuff for myself on ebay, i dont see that option. and i have over 30,000 transactions over 13 years. the only time i have seen any holds, is when i buy something from a new ebay seller with a new unverified paypal account. only then do they hold funds till shipped. is there a place i can find that info ?

It's tied into the PayPal shopping cart option that sellers can use. I order stuff all the time that's back ordered, and they don't charge my PayPal account until it ships. Often the items in a large order will end up as multiple shipments to me as each arrives at the retailer from their sources, and those are each billed individually as they go out. OTOH I take PayPal but I don't use their cart, so the billing is instant. But I always ship within 24 hours.

Anyone else see this? Ben Milne is suing Elemental Designs....

Link

Welcome to page 5.

The problem with this is that it doesn't prevent fraud any more than the "take the cash right away" method. Same with credit cards. The authorization is simply a tool to protect the seller from fraud by the buyer as it allows them to secure funds even though, by policy, they don't charge the customer until they ship.

If a seller wants to they can simply mark the transaction in PayPal as shipped and take the money. Paypal has no way of knowing it actually shipped.

Paypal is always a bad choice if you can use a credit card instead. There are many more protections for both the buyer and seller when using credit cards because of the amount of rules and regulations that must be followed.

As a seller I'd only use Paypal or something similar ONLY if I had no choice (ie I was running a shady business and had problems with credit card processing or excessively high fees due to being a "high risk" merchant.

As a buyer it's not overly difficult to claim fraud with PayPal and get your money back. Happens all the time to merchants where buyers buy something then state they never ordered the item.

In any case PayPal is mainly a solution for those who don't want to use credit cards and can't do a cash transaction easily due to distance or want "some" level of protection.

The buyer does, when he gets a tracking number. If he doesn't have one within 24 hours of when his PayPal account is billed then it's up to him to follow up with PayPal, who will block the funds if there's even a hint of a problem. BTW, sellers can't just take money from PayPal at will. If they want to take more than $500 a month they must follow procedures in place to prevent fraud. Quite the contrary, it's mainly an option that sellers who don't want to deal with credit cards use. That's because PayPal charges a low percentage with no processing fees. Credit card service companies nickle and dime you to death, charging fees for charging fees. If you don't do at least $1k per week to get the fees down to a reasonable 5% credit cards are money losers for sellers.

Wow, no wonder they went under, those are some serious fixed costs that don't look like they would provide much in return.

Been a while since I visited here.

WOW. I had no idea eD is gone. I bought several subs and they built 12cuft sub enclosures for my 18's and 3cuft for the MBM's. Very high quality stuff and I'll miss them. I remember a nice guy that used to work there named Chris and I noticed that things weren't the same when he left. Not that I imagined eD would go belly up, but it didn't feel the same. Anyhow, they were a small company making big strides and I guess that success was their Achilles heel.

yea i remember Chris. I own a Scion tC and currently have an amp and sub from eD. i remember Chris had a tC too and was doing a massive build in the back of his car. good people (well some of them) and good products i thought. after i bought my stuff in 09-10 i haven't been on their sit which is down now.