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New JVC DLA-RS46 / DLA-X35 entry level D-ILA projector with 3D RF glasses CEDIA 2012 - Page 2

post #31 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I just saw the stats for the RS46 (X35) and it looks identical to the RS46...it looks like they went nowhere in the last year. I think JVC screwed up big in the naming convention though, now they have an X35 and an RS35. Why not X37?
No improvements=no sales...I everyone else doesn't choke this year.

Why do you say that? As long as it does something better than the competition, then it will still sell.
post #32 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

As mentioned above, the reps said the same thing last year and it was flat out not true. Some actually experienced more ghosting last year then the year before.

If no changes to the panels and processing - could they have been sneaking some improvements into the new glasses with the better RF sync????
post #33 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo View Post

Why do you say that? As long as it does something better than the competition, then it will still sell.

I'm sure they'll sell some, but as black levels are good enough on the competition for all but a few, and most of the competition was already ahead in many other aspects, its sorta comical that JVC is resting this year. I just hate it when company's obviously change almost nothing on a product (except the number) and try to serve leftovers as new and improved.
post #34 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

If no changes to the panels and processing - could they have been sneaking some improvements into the new glasses with the better RF sync????

Highly doubtful. Only so much they can do it seems with the current tech they are using. Maybe going to faster panels and response time conflicts with the native contrast?? confused.gif There must be some reason they are not doing it.
post #35 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I'm sure they'll sell some, but as black levels are good enough on the competition for all but a few, and most of the competition was already ahead in many other aspects, its sorta comical that JVC is resting this year. I just hate it when company's obviously change almost nothing on a product (except the number) and try to serve leftovers as new and improved.



IMHO, if by some miracle the overall subpar JVC lamp performance would be substantially improved that in itself would be a MAJOR improvement! wink.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #36 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I'm sure they'll sell some, but as black levels are good enough on the competition for all but a few, and most of the competition was already ahead in many other aspects, its sorta comical that JVC is resting this year. I just hate it when company's obviously change almost nothing on a product (except the number) and try to serve leftovers as new and improved.

Many of us would disagree that JVC's wouldn't benefit from lower black levels, let alone the competition.

And a brighter lamp with much less dimming over time is a big improvement.

Especially if it's true smile.gif
post #37 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by pottscb View Post

I'm sure they'll sell some, but as black levels are good enough on the competition for all but a few, and most of the competition was already ahead in many other aspects, its sorta comical that JVC is resting this year. I just hate it when company's obviously change almost nothing on a product (except the number) and try to serve leftovers as new and improved.

Are you serious? TI hasn't improved DLP in like 10 years and they are still selling. I still find LCD lacking. Most of the complaints are from those who prefer gaming or 3D. That is ok, if that is your preference. In the last three years at Cedia, I don't remember hearing more than a few people say that 3D was that important to them.

Honestly, if the new lamp is half as good as they are claiming then it is a big improvement.
post #38 of 137
Last year many people on this board praised the 2D image of the RS45. Many said the only thing keeping them from buying was the reported lamp issues. Well this year they did major changes to improve the lamp reliability and the performance of the lamp. Yes we do not have proof that the lamp is improved, but JVC told us they improved the lamp last year and even though some think the lamp was not improved, I can tell you that it certainly was improved. Version 2 had fewer issues than version one and version three has had even less than version two. A JVC with a long lasting lamp that holds its brightness sure sounds like a winner to me.
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post #39 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Last year many people on this board praised the 2D image of the RS45. Many said the only thing keeping them from buying was the reported lamp issues. Well this year they did major changes to improve the lamp reliability and the performance of the lamp. Yes we do not have proof that the lamp is improved, but JVC told us they improved the lamp last year and even though some think the lamp was not improved, I can tell you that it certainly was improved. Version 2 had fewer issues than version one and version three has had even less than version two. A JVC with a long lasting lamp that holds its brightness sure sounds like a winner to me.

Keep in mind that the lamp problems should have never been a problem. The loss of lumens over a period of time IS an improvement but fixing an problem that never should have been is NOT an upgrade.

JVC can be praised for a great 2D image but since their projectors are now advertised as 3D projectors their performance needs to be better than subpar compared to the competition. JVC is an upper end brand when it comes to projectors but it's not when it comes to 3D. I think this is a big part of where complaints are coming from.
post #40 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Keep in mind that the lamp problems should have never been a problem. The loss of lumens over a period of time IS an improvement but fixing an problem that never should have been is NOT an upgrade.
JVC can be praised for a great 2D image but since their projectors are now advertised as 3D projectors their performance needs to be better than subpar compared to the competition. JVC is an upper end brand when it comes to projectors but it's not when it comes to 3D. I think this is a big part of where complaints are coming from.

Agreed. IF they have fixed the lamp issues, that is great, but it never should have been an issue to begin with. It sucks we have to "upgrade" to the new models to get a properly working lamp. Not that I am doing that since the 3d still sounds mediocre at best (I have not read one report yet that did not mention ghosting, and this is with movies. SBS/TB content will still be horrible I would imagine) and I dont see any real incentive to upgrade otherwise. Bring on Denver and next year as far as I am concerned.
post #41 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Keep in mind that the lamp problems should have never been a problem. The loss of lumens over a period of time IS an improvement but fixing an problem that never should have been is NOT an upgrade.
JVC can be praised for a great 2D image but since their projectors are now advertised as 3D projectors their performance needs to be better than subpar compared to the competition. JVC is an upper end brand when it comes to projectors but it's not when it comes to 3D. I think this is a big part of where complaints are coming from.

Was there not a change to the current models lamps since first release????
post #42 of 137
Before starting off, I am a huge fan of JVC's black level and depth of image. I rarely find motion bothersome. As for 3d, after 9 months and 700hrs with the RS45, I still have not yet purchased glass's. (even with teenage kids eek.gif ) These are my thoughts on JVC's new projector improvements.
1. If they have come up with a 4000hr lamp with 15% lose at 1/2 life, this would be a huge upgrade to any theater owner. Not worrying about bulb life, or having to calibrate color, gamma, brightness near as frequently is fantastic. This was the number one complaint of the JVC's for the past two years.
2. Getting into E-shift for such a low price this year puts this tech into reach of JSP.
3. 3D is supposed to be improved, but if it is not up to your standards get a dlp. Why keep banging your head against the same wall expecting different results? I suspect the panel speed helps keep the black level down.
4. Color management available for under $5000.
5. black level. Had to throw that back in.
I don't know why any one would purchase this unit when gaming and 3D are their top priority's. This is really the best 2D movie rig out there for the price.
Im thinking of upgrading to the RS48 from the 45 for the above reasons.
Edited by Gary Gleave - 9/10/12 at 4:48pm
post #43 of 137
Gaming and 3d are not top priorities, but boh are important to me and others. With the high lag and current condition of 3d, both are pretty much useless IMO.
post #44 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Gaming and 3d are not top priorities, but boh are important to me and others. With the high lag and current condition of 3d, both are pretty much useless IMO.

2D is the top priority for me as well, although I would still like do some occassional gaming and 3D viewieng on my projector as well. It would be great if the JVC's were stellar in all three areas, but I don't any projector out there (in this price range) currently is going to satisfy in all areas. Having said that, I am in the market for a new projector and the improvements made by JVC with its lamps and E-shift, coupled with the already great native contrast, will probably be enough to push me towards buying one of the new JVC models. If there are no improvements in 3D or lag time, then I will either look at a 2 projector set up, or use my 60" flat screen for these.
Edited by phisch - 9/10/12 at 11:35am
post #45 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Gaming and 3d are not top priorities, but boh are important to me and others. With the high lag and current condition of 3d, both are pretty much useless IMO.

I do feel for you. I've gone through the same things with motorcycles, and currently have 3 in the garage.
post #46 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gleave View Post

Before starting off, I am a huge fan of JVC's black level and depth of image. I rarely find motion bothersome. As for 3d, after 9 months and 700hrs with the RS45, I still have not yet purchased glass's. (even with teenage kids eek.gif ) These are my thoughts on JVC's new projector improvements.
1. If they have come up with a 4000hr lamp with 15% lose at 1/2 life, this would be a huge upgrade to any theater owner. Not worrying about bulb life, or having to calibrate color, gamma, brightness near as frequently is fantastic. This was the number one complaint of the JVC's for the past two years.
2. Getting into E-shift for such a low price this year puts this tech into reach of JSP.
3. 3D is supposed to be improved, but if it is not up to your standards get a dlp. Why keep banging your head against the same wall expecting different results? I suspect the panel speed helps keep the black level down.
4. Color management available for under $5000.
5. black level. Had to throw that back in.
I don't know why any one would purchase this unit when gaming and 3D are their top priority's. This is really the best 2D movie rig out there for the price.
Im thinking of upgrading to the RS46 from the 45 for the above reasons.

+1

This year the RS2 gets upgraded...Won't be able to use the 2nd lamp I bought when JVC had them on sell. ; -).. Seriously...I agree with you Gary..2D and movies, which the JVC are perfect for it can't be beat. If you want to do Games and 3D on the projector you will lose out on the movie quality. I know it's each persons opionion, but for me I'll stick with JVC and I'm patiently waiting for the new models to come out.... The RS-48 will be my choice!
post #47 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

+1
This year the RS2 gets upgraded...Won't be able to use the 2nd lamp I bought when JVC had them on sell. ; -).. Seriously...I agree with you Gary..2D and movies, which the JVC are perfect for it can't be beat. If you want to do Games and 3D on the projector you will lose out on the movie quality. I know it's each persons opionion, but for me I'll stick with JVC and I'm patiently waiting for the new models to come out.... The RS-48 will be my choice!

I agree as well. 2D movies should be the most important aspect for projector owners. 2D movies are JVC's forte. For a casual 3D viewer like me I'm sure the upcoming JVCs will be just fine, especially the RS56/X75 with the THX 3D certification. I'm not expecting 3D perfection and I don't mind sacrificing it for amazing 2D. As for games, I am a gamer too but I don't play too many first person shooters where the low lag is important. I play games like Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Uncharted, and Gran Turismo 5 for example. So the type of games I play will be absolutely fine on the JVC projectors (especially with the e-shift). For first person shooter gamers, the JVC will not be the best projector to choose.
post #48 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Gleave View Post

Before starting off, I am a huge fan of JVC's black level and depth of image. I rarely find motion bothersome. As for 3d, after 9 months and 700hrs with the RS45, I still have not yet purchased glass's. (even with teenage kids eek.gif ) These are my thoughts on JVC's new projector improvements.
1. If they have come up with a 4000hr lamp with 15% lose at 1/2 life, this would be a huge upgrade to any theater owner. Not worrying about bulb life, or having to calibrate color, gamma, brightness near as frequently is fantastic. This was the number one complaint of the JVC's for the past two years.
2. Getting into E-shift for such a low price this year puts this tech into reach of JSP.
3. 3D is supposed to be improved, but if it is not up to your standards get a dlp. Why keep banging your head against the same wall expecting different results? I suspect the panel speed helps keep the black level down.
4. Color management available for under $5000.
5. black level. Had to throw that back in.
I don't know why any one would purchase this unit when gaming and 3D are their top priority's. This is really the best 2D movie rig out there for the price.
Im thinking of upgrading to the RS46 from the 45 for the above reasons.

Thats why I got a Benq W7000 to go along with the JVC biggrin.gif I would prefer slower panels if that means great 2D. How great would it be it this bulb works out? I highly doubt it will come close but I can always hope it does
post #49 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

2D movies should be the most important aspect for projector owners.


I disagree with that as far as a blanket statement since what SHOULD be most important for a projector owner depends on the particular individual and how they intend to use their projector. Some people mostly watch 3d on their projectors, some people mostly game, some people mostly watch sports/cable, some people mostly watch movies, etc.......Now if you said 2d movies should be the most important aspect for a JVC projector owner, I agree with you 100% since that is by far what they are best at with everything else taking a back seat to some degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

2D is the top priority for me as well, although I would still like do some occassional gaming and 3D viewieng on my projector as well. It would be great if the JVC's were stellar in all three areas, but I don't any projector out there (in this price range) currently is going to satisfy in all areas. Having said that, I am in the market for a new projector and the improvements made by JVC with its lamps and E-shift, coupled with the already great native contrast, will probably be enough to push me towards buying one of the new JVC models. If there are no improvements in 3D or lag time, then I will either look at a 2 projector set up, or use my 60" flat screen for these.

Sounds like from everything I have read that Sony projectors are at least good in all areas with no significant weak points and will satisfy in all areas for most I would think. If Epson comes through with reducing lag like we are hearing, they would also be considered a great all around projector. Panasonic would also be a better all around projector vs JVC for someone who wants to do a variety of things and not just movies.

I am in a simlar boat as you though and am looking to add a DLP for 3d duties at this point.

OFF TOPIC: I take it you are a Phish fan going by your user name? We just saw the last 3 shows of the summer tour last weekend here in Denver and they were FANTASTIC! eek.gif
Edited by Toe - 9/10/12 at 3:58pm
post #50 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

+1
This year the RS2 gets upgraded...Won't be able to use the 2nd lamp I bought when JVC had them on sell. ; -).. Seriously...I agree with you Gary..2D and movies, which the JVC are perfect for it can't be beat. If you want to do Games and 3D on the projector you will lose out on the movie quality. I know it's each persons opionion, but for me I'll stick with JVC and I'm patiently waiting for the new models to come out.... The RS-48 will be my choice!

I think you will be very pleased with the improvements. I went from an RS2 close (Pioneer FPJ1) to the RS45 and IMO it is a very nice step up. i just wish the 3D wasn't so prone to crosstalk.
post #51 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I agree as well. 2D movies should be the most important aspect for projector owners. 2D movies are JVC's forte. For a casual 3D viewer like me I'm sure the upcoming JVCs will be just fine, especially the RS56/X75 with the THX 3D certification. I'm not expecting 3D perfection and I don't mind sacrificing it for amazing 2D. As for games, I am a gamer too but I don't play too many first person shooters where the low lag is important. I play games like Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Uncharted, and Gran Turismo 5 for example. So the type of games I play will be absolutely fine on the JVC projectors (especially with the e-shift). For first person shooter gamers, the JVC will not be the best projector to choose.

It is certainly not just FPS where low lag is important as I have come to find out with my SSX experience the past 6 months. ANY game that requires split second reaction will be affected by high lag which include racing games such as SSX and Grand Turismo.
post #52 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Keep in mind that the lamp problems should have never been a problem. The loss of lumens over a period of time IS an improvement but fixing an problem that never should have been is NOT an upgrade.
JVC can be praised for a great 2D image but since their projectors are now advertised as 3D projectors their performance needs to be better than subpar compared to the competition. JVC is an upper end brand when it comes to projectors but it's not when it comes to 3D. I think this is a big part of where complaints are coming from.

I am just telling you what customers told me this year. Hundreds of people bought the JVC projectors this last season. A very small percentage of my customers (2%) came back to me and reported lamp issues. Now some may have gone direct to JVC, I don't know, but only 2% came back to me. Many times people told me that they would have picked the JVC if it was not for the lamp issue. Now not only take that issue away, but also improve the lamp life and reduce the dimming rate and it sure sounds like a winner to me. On top of that the 3D has been improved. You put all of those factors together and you have a pretty good all around projector. Now 3D is pretty important to some people, but I can tell you right now, 3D is not a priority to the vast majority.
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post #53 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

I disagree with that as far as a blanket statement since what SHOULD be most important for a projector owner depends on the particular individual and how they intend to use their projector. Some people mostly watch 3d on their projectors, some people mostly game, some people mostly watch sports/cable, some people mostly watch movies, etc.......Now if you said 2d movies should be the most important aspect for a JVC projector owner, I agree with you 100% since that is by far what they are best at with everything else taking a back seat to some degree.
Sounds like from everything I have read that Sony projectors are at least good in all areas with no significant weak points and will satisfy in all areas for most I would think. If Epson comes through with reducing lag like we are hearing, they would also be considered a great all around projector. Panasonic would also be a better all around projector vs JVC for someone who wants to do a variety of things and not just movies.
I am in a simlar boat as you though and am looking to add a DLP for 3d duties at this point.
OFF TOPIC: I take it you are a Phish fan going by your user name? We just saw the last 3 shows of the summer tour last weekend here in Denver and they were FANTASTIC! eek.gif

I would be shocked if 3D was the most watched on a single projector setup. With the still small percentage of 3D, that would mean the projector is sitting unused a lot.
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post #54 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I would be shocked if 3D was the most watched on a single projector setup. With the still small percentage of 3D, that would mean the projector is sitting unused a lot.

Not if you are a gamer and have a PC especially. There are tons of 3d games available. I actually have a friend who watches way more 3d then anything on his Acer 5360, but he plays quite a few 3d games. I agree though that this type of situation is pretty rare, but these folks are out there.
post #55 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

I am just telling you what customers told me this year. Hundreds of people bought the JVC projectors this last season. A very small percentage of my customers (2%) came back to me and reported lamp issues. Now some may have gone direct to JVC, I don't know, but only 2% came back to me. Many times people told me that they would have picked the JVC if it was not for the lamp issue. Now not only take that issue away, but also improve the lamp life and reduce the dimming rate and it sure sounds like a winner to me. On top of that the 3D has been improved. You put all of those factors together and you have a pretty good all around projector. Now 3D is pretty important to some people, but I can tell you right now, 3D is not a priority to the vast majority.

My comments about the lamps are just based off of others comments. I have an RS45 with low hours on the lamp and knock on wood I've had no issues thus far. My lamp may have dimmed (which is always expected early one) and to my knowledge what I see is normal in my limited experience. The improved 3D at this point is unconfirmed. The same was said last year as well. We shall see.

I'm surprised how little attention the Sony 50ES has received. Straight from projectorreviews:
Quote:
...Sony did a great job of demoing it. I’ll try to write later (from memory) about how it looked compared to last year’s top of the line $12,000 JVC… Let’s just say dealers in the demo room were almost stunned that the HW50ES could in terms of picture quality, take on the JVC and not be embarrassed. Not surprising...As I was very aware and had seen several other projectors (Panasonic, Epson) before the show, this was the one new projector at the show that dazzled me the most."
post #56 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

The improved 3D at this point is unconfirmed. The same was said last year as well. We shall see.

Exactly. The 3d was supposedly improved last year coming out of Cedia as well and look how that turned out. Nothing is confirmed on the 3d in my mind until we have production units in the wild and in the hands of someone who can do a proper evaluation like Zombie. Or just send me one and I will give it the 3d once over with material I am VERY familiar with on the 40/45 as far as ghosting. biggrin.giftongue.gif

I am surprised the Sony is not getting more attention as well, unless people are scared by the new pricing policy which I cant say I blame them. The Sony and Epson models though look to me to be the best all around projectors in their respective price class.
post #57 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

My comments about the lamps are just based off of others comments. I have an RS45 with low hours on the lamp and knock on wood I've had no issues thus far. My lamp may have dimmed (which is always expected early one) and to my knowledge what I see is normal in my limited experience. The improved 3D at this point is unconfirmed. The same was said last year as well. We shall see.
I'm surprised how little attention the Sony 50ES has received. Straight from projectorreviews:

Each year these projectors get better and better. The Sony HW50 just like the JVC received some nice improvements. The manual lens shift, focus and zoom will eliminate it from the CIH crowd, but for those with 16:9 screens it should also be a nice fit.
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post #58 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Not if you are a gamer and have a PC especially. There are tons of 3d games available.

Yeah playing games in 3D is a real kick, although hard core gamers tend to turn their nose up on the 3D games. I own about 6 or 7 3D games now (playing Crysis 2 in 3d now), and more and more are coming out.
post #59 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Exactly. The 3d was supposedly improved last year coming out of Cedia as well and look how that turned out. Nothing is confirmed on the 3d in my mind until we have production units in the wild and in the hands of someone who can do a proper evaluation like Zombie. Or just send me one and I will give it the 3d once over with material I am VERY familiar with on the 40/45 as far as ghosting. biggrin.giftongue.gif
I am surprised the Sony is not getting more attention as well, unless people are scared by the new pricing policy which I cant say I blame them. The Sony and Epson models though look to me to be the best all around projectors in their respective price class.

I'll keep the JVC at the back of my mind just in case but I'm not expecting anything but minimal improvements. If great reports come then I'll be pleasantly surprised. Forgot about the Sony pricing issue. Hopefully AVS will have some good pricing. The good thing is that Best Buy will likely display one so I can at least see before making a purchase. Last year Best Buy had the HW30 very early.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

Each year these projectors get better and better. The Sony HW50 just like the JVC received some nice improvements. The manual lens shift, focus and zoom will eliminate it from the CIH crowd, but for those with 16:9 screens it should also be a nice fit.

I like the power zoom/focus/lens on my JVC but I am willing to sacrifice this in the name of PQ if the Sony is worth the price of admission. smile.gif
post #60 of 137
How do they not have a game mode yet? Just drop all the processing, have the colors not be 100% accurate and just pass through the data as fast as possible. Were going to run it on high lamp anyway for gaming (especially if some light is entering the room during daytime) so color accuracy is never too much of a priority.
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