JVC DLA-RS48 / DLA X55 projector with 3D RF glasses and E-shift CEDIA 2012 - Page 20

Which Monday is that. The 10th or 17

Good question - not exactly sure - as soon as the preorder pricing was out I spoke with Mike and gave him my cc# so I would think I am pretty early on but I never asked him an exact number.


Sadly my theater seats showed up from Roman today but have no room for those either. I have the two biggest expenses coming but no theater done yet - inspiration is running high at this point

I was told I was the 20th or so when I placed my order.

If I didn't misunderstand him, it will be the 10th, this coming Monday! So good chances for people getting it on Tues or Wed depends how far you are from NY!

just got my billing invoice from AVS as well, so seems like they are going to be shipping this weekend/Monday, or at least the first batch are. I don't think I was too high up on the pre-order list but cannot say for sure. I know I did call Mike to confirm my pre-order ahead of most though.
depending on my time (next week very busy) i am going to try and get some comparison/side-by-side pics for those sitting on an x30 from last year thinking about making the upgrade. that said, Zombie's will be better .

I got mine today as well. 2 days UPS ground NY to Green Bay.

Got mine also! Guess I need to find somehow to test this thing out - without having a theater or screen handy

Willie do share.

Isn't AVS located in Chicago ? I got the invoice email too. I'm in NJ

NY

Yup - Just checked the address on the invoice

Could you give us at least you're basic conclusions in English.
Information is very scarce. Thank you

Could you give us at least you're basic conclusions in English.
Information is very scarce. Thank you

Hmm, last time I visited them they were in Rochester NY.
have they moved?
zed

A few days with a production model X55, been busy with other stuff so not that much testing yet. Anyways, some impressions
- focus uniformity and convergence very very good out of the box, dunno if I will even touch the multi-zone convergence correction
- running short throw with -13 in aperture atm, black levels are similar to previous generation as the numbers say. Good but never perfect for me as I have a last gen Kuro upstairs
- Eshift2, frikkin amazing for my setup, 110" screen with 1 SW viewing distance. Almost like going from 720p to 1080p. Have some photos to process, I'll try to post some crops of Eshift2 awesomeness. Using "Film" mode in MPC atm, looks best/smoothest to me. High Resolution generates noise and looks like digital sharpening
- 3D chosting has definately improved a lot for 24p content. Watched IMAX Grand Canyon and noticed it only a few spots (even the tree scene it was not obvious) and almost had to stop looking the film to notice. Is it perfect? No, but what is. I know I'll be happy camper with 24p 3D unless the lamp loses light fast and mr Ghost is back again like with previous gen. Watching Sammy's ATM and still looking very very good to me...
- 50/60 Hz ghosting has improved too, Never saw any usable SbS with X3, everything was full of ghosting. With X55 things are definately better. I have very limited amount of SbS 3D so this testing has been quite limited.

Nice impressions. How far is your projector lens to your screen? So your saying that the blacks are very good but still not at the level of the kuro. Do you think that the X75 would have black levels similar to the kuros? I'm not sure if you have seen the X75, but I'm sure Zombie can answer this question if you can't.

I had the Kuro 6010 and the 6020 and I've had the RS2 and the RS45 now and I can tell you that in dark scenes the JVCs have blacker blacks than my Kuro 6020 did. However I believe the ANSI CR on the Kuros was measured around 5000:1 meaning that in a darkened room blacks often looked pitch black (with the exception of dark scenes). I've never looked at my JVC and thought black levels were that dark. Ever. However, they are still very good. At the same time if the Kuro screen was 100" + in size it would likely be more obvious that the black levels weren't as black.

And what is your screen material and gain? thanks.

i was advised to check screen section but was confused...

Can anyone recommend what type of screen.

My room is light controlled with drak grey walls and black roof and floor...

i want fixed 120" 16:9 screen .... lense is 3.7meters from wall... can currently get 123" image.. so should be able to get 120" with screen ?
Edited by vick82sydney - 12/9/12 at 8:31pm

The projector is ~12 feet from the screen.

I think no projector based setup will have overall blacks of my KRP-500M, where in some scenes you really cannot tell where the picture ends and blacks frames of TV start. JVC blacks are very good, they have been that in my RS2, RS40 and are in my new X55. However, anyone who says that JVCs blacks are so good that they do not benefit from masking the gray bars in 2.35:1 with a masking system are kidding themselves and/or have not ever seen a proper masking system in use; I have one in my room. And no, I do not think X75 or X95 change that, if the iris position and zoom rations are matched; they will provide slightly better blacks if you have absolutely perfect batcave. I've seen lasty year's X90 in a good setup and while better IMO it has nothing to do with Kuro levels. I'm extremely happy with my X55 and whenever I see a projector from another brand the 1st thing that pops to my mind is "this thing has no blacks whatsoever", but I have have no reason to hype the JVC blacks as perfect. Until JVC blacks match match the colors the Protostar Light trap material surrounding my screen there is no reason to call those blacks inky or perfect. To use a car analogy, my V8 equipped M3 is a brilliant car, but I propably should not drag race a Veyron with my hopes set too high.

As for some more 3D testing, watched most of the Sammy's last night and I'm still extremely impressed with 24p Blu-Ray in X55. Slight ghosting was there in a few spots, but to my eye it was very slight and it did not intrude experiencing 3D eye candy at all. I would compare this to screen texture stuff; some ppl say they do not notice screen texture at all on their Black Diamond or whatever screen whereas "pro" viewer with supercritical eye might see it as something unbearable. I bet 95 out 100 non-experts would not notice anything wrong with IMAX Grand Canyon with my X55, whereas with my X3 the number would propably be less than 10 out of hundred. So it is not 100% ghost free always, but to me it is still very very good to me. 3D color profiles also look better out of the box, not nearly as much tinting as I had with my X3.

Extra "pop" has been mentioned in X55 context, my wife walked into theater room yesterday and commented something like "this has more of a 3D feel to it than before" when I was watching scenes from Baraka in 2D. I've already made her bored by forcing her to watch the benefits of E-Shift from a close range but this comment was spontaneous

As for noise, this thing indeed is slightly more noisier than the X3, but just slightly and mostly noticed on high lamp.

Should have a new lamp to X3 tomorrow, I'll fire it up with a new lamp for some 3D comparisons before packing the X3 away for sale. Also, I'll try to do some "how far out from can you see the benefits of E-Shift". And yeah, time to test the PS3 gaming with Grand Turismo 5 in 3D. Did some E-Shift photo stuff yesterday, need to check the pictures if I managed to capture what my eyes see.
Edited by tn1krr - 12/10/12 at 5:51am

A G9 Kuro has a measured contrast ratio of around 30,000 to 40,000:1, achieved with a white level of around 40ftl or more. If we accept 40,000:1 and 40ftl white level, black level will be about 0.001ftl.

A base model JVC can provide a measured CR of 50,000:1 and at mid iris about 30,000:1 is reasonable. If we are conservative a use 30,000:1 with a white level of 12ftl we get a black level of 0.0004ftl, 2.5 times lower than the Kuro.

Appearances are deceptive.

One key factor with any projector with high CR numbers is you must have total light control in your room in order to achieve similar values for your home theater 'system'. That is, no room lights and no external light entering the room via windows, doors, etc. Without that you will never be able to come close to the CR of the projector itself since any other light reaching the screen will raise the black level and reduce the CR.
Edited by Ron Jones - 12/10/12 at 6:58am

Blocking external light is easy, mine is in the cellar with no windows so lights off ==> no external light. The hard part IMO is the reflection control; even many so called review rooms have greyish walls or similar instead of black while they may work great for projecting blank black test screen they sure are gonna be lighted up when there is any light in the picture and the term "perfect light control" is used quite often even for spaces that have absolutely nothing to do with a real batcave. My theater room is ok, not perfect, but I'm still figuring a way to remove last bits of reflective surfaces my theater room, the are behind the viewing area ATM so most of work is already done.

I really do not know if it is supposedly much higher (10x???) ANSI contrast in Kuro or what but having spend years with both; to my eyes Kuro has easily perceived better blacks. This does not any way negate the fact that JVC DLA's have significantly better native blacks than pretty much any projection device and due to size and other stuff the JVC IMO has overall much more impressive picture; mask graybars away from the JVC picture and you have something absoletely amazing for 2.35:1 too. The ever-impressive Kuro sees 99% of its use as display for my wife to watch reality TV or local "drama" I pick the JVC about 99.9% of the time I really want to watch something.

Things like "inky black" mean different stuff for different people, but I've never seen a projector/room combination that would not benefit from masking for 2.35:1. Until I do, there is no such thing as perfect blacks for me and I'm as black-level-o-holic as there is. Even my phone has Super AMOLED screen for this very specific reason.

Any one get the tracking numbers ? I got the invoice on Friday, as per Mike, the unit should ship out today. This needs to coordinated perfectly so I can take the day off from work

Any one get the tracking numbers ? I got the invoice on Friday, as per Mike, the unit should ship out today. This needs to coordinated perfectly so I can take the day off from work

thanks for all the feedback so far. Any chance you can grab the 2 screens I use in the mini-shootout thread from Grand Canyon and Sammy's? In Grand Canyon, it's around 12:30 or so for the tree scene.

1st ever try with through the glasses photography. I love my Nex-6, but manual focus using oled EVF is PITA for this kind of stuff. Shots are through the right lens with glassestilted 90 degrees left as I had some trouble hanging the glasses correctly

Sammy's, looks very good to me and matches what I see through 2nd pair of glasses



Imax Grand Canyon. The photo exaggerates the ghosting slightly for some reason, seeing less with my eyes, there is no such a sharp line although there is something kind of shadowish on the left side of the tree

Maybe it is your camera but those shot look a bit too dim...

thanks for posting! Can you adjust the exposure manually from 1/6 to either 1/3 or 1/2 of a second and re-post the shots?

Are these the JVC RF glasses?

This looks pretty good! I notice there's a tendency toward a bit more ghosting along edges, as I saw in last year's models, too. The ghosting along the left side of the tree looks darker at the very edge than it does overall. Are the "ghosting controls" any more effective than they were last year? The ones on my RS45 were all but useless. Any changes that I saw were extremely minor, and some of the controls seemed to do nothing at all. Could you post captures of the same scenes 100-200 hours down the line? Another scene that's very revealing is Chapter 7 of Monsters vs Aliens, as the president walks up the steps to the alien robot (the long shot, not the medium shot). This was a torture test for the JVCs. My RS40 was fairly bad with it, but the RS45 was absolutely TERRIBLE. I was sick when I saw the "improved" 3D performance of the RS45, and none of the "adjustments" made it better in the least.

It is my camera skills and I really did not iterate the exposure as what we are trying to catch here is ghosting. Should propably overexpose those to at least +0,7 or so to get accurate brightness, did not want to do any PP to those and my NEX-6 tends to underexpose a bit in low light. Warming up my old X3 (with a new lamp that has about 2 hours to it) at the moment to get comparison shot from older generation.

I see what I can do today, a bit late (02.00AM) here already What I can tell you is that those pics show what ghosting there is, the Grand Canyon pic actually looks a bit worse than the ghosting really is.