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New JVC DLA-X75R/DLA-RS56 $7,999 projector with 3D RF glasses and E-shift CEDIA 2012 - Page 3

post #61 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I'd take the Darbee out for the calibration. Start with User 1, Color Temp 6500 and Gamma at 2.3. Use the standard color profile. If it is anything like the one I have in my room right now, it will be a VERY short calibration.
+1.

Sounds like my RS56 is the same as Kris'. I've been staring at the picture for ~25 hours now with all sorts of content and while I haven't taken any calibration measurements yet I'd be surprised if there was much to change. Greyscale looks good across the range, gamut seems fine (no or very little oversaturation of primaries in standard colour profile), and gamma at 2.2 looks decent. May have a little bit of gamma work (some boosting) to do in the low end but it's minor and I'm waiting until some work is done to the adjacent walls as even minor light bounce can wash out the low end easily..

I'm running my RS56 at most of the settings Kris mentions above (USER1, 6500K, Normal gamma [which seems to be 2.2], -10 iris, MPC set to FILM with all 3 sliders set to zero, all NR off, CMD off, everything else off).

It's letting me enjoy watching it without thinking all the time "ugh - I need to get this thing calibrated". (I'm in need of a new meter or have my existing one recal'ed)

All machines will be different of course so this is no guarantee that someone else's will look good as is, but I'm very surprised at how mine looks out of the box.

Kal
post #62 of 444
I am running User 1 with the color profile set to Standard and color temp set to 6500 with just a few touch ups (the mid range was slightly up pre-cal). I have gamma in custom with 2.3 selected and that tracked nearly perfect for 2.3 (a first for any JVC I've measured). Color points on mine were all below a dE of 3 in standard with no touch up. I tweaked them a bit and now have them all below a dE of 1 with minimal work. One of the easiest calibrations I've ever done honestly, but it was so good out of the box that it really would have been fine to leave it alone and just do a full one later on when the bulb breaks in a bit. I don't remember where I put the iris at but I closed it down in low lamp to get about 14 fL on my 120" ST130 screen. Using a Minolta T-10 I did a rough contrast measurement and it came in at about 43,000:1 on/off. This was a quick uncontrolled measurement but it was consistent with the 5 or so measurements I took. I only have the iris down a couple clicks. I'm having a few quirks with my PJ so another one is on the way. I'll see if it is the same as far as out of the box accuracy.
post #63 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I am running User 1 with the color profile set to Standard and color temp set to 6500 with just a few touch ups (the mid range was slightly up pre-cal). I have gamma in custom with 2.3 selected and that tracked nearly perfect for 2.3 (a first for any JVC I've measured). Color points on mine were all below a dE of 3 in standard with no touch up. I tweaked them a bit and now have them all below a dE of 1 with minimal work. One of the easiest calibrations I've ever done honestly, but it was so good out of the box that it really would have been fine to leave it alone and just do a full one later on when the bulb breaks in a bit. I don't remember where I put the iris at but I closed it down in low lamp to get about 14 fL on my 120" ST130 screen. Using a Minolta T-10 I did a rough contrast measurement and it came in at about 43,000:1 on/off. This was a quick uncontrolled measurement but it was consistent with the 5 or so measurements I took. I only have the iris down a couple clicks. I'm having a few quirks with my PJ so another one is on the way. I'll see if it is the same as far as out of the box accuracy.
Kris, how does the convergence look on your unit? Will the RS56 unseat your RS35 or are you not sure yet?
post #64 of 444
Convergence wasn't an issue. Some slight fringing here and there, but nothing you'd see after a few feet from the screen. Wasn't quite as good as my RS35. Pixel focus was good, but again not quite as good as my RS35. I will be replacing my RS35 though. I kind of have to at this point. I need to be able to test out 3D stuff given my job and the new line is close enough for 2D playback that it won't be an issue. May not be quite as good at the screen, but close enough at the seating. The RS35 I have is still the best 2D projector I've seen for pixel focus, uniformity and convergence. It was sharper than the Samsung when we compared them!
post #65 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I am running User 1 with the color profile set to Standard and color temp set to 6500 with just a few touch ups (the mid range was slightly up pre-cal). I have gamma in custom with 2.3 selected and that tracked nearly perfect for 2.3 (a first for any JVC I've measured). Color points on mine were all below a dE of 3 in standard with no touch up. I tweaked them a bit and now have them all below a dE of 1 with minimal work. One of the easiest calibrations I've ever done honestly, but it was so good out of the box that it really would have been fine to leave it alone and just do a full one later on when the bulb breaks in a bit. I don't remember where I put the iris at but I closed it down in low lamp to get about 14 fL on my 120" ST130 screen. Using a Minolta T-10 I did a rough contrast measurement and it came in at about 43,000:1 on/off. This was a quick uncontrolled measurement but it was consistent with the 5 or so measurements I took. I only have the iris down a couple clicks. I'm having a few quirks with my PJ so another one is on the way. I'll see if it is the same as far as out of the box accuracy.
Sounds good. I'm using essentially the same setting, though I haven't yet played with gamma.

So I joined FB, and have started looking for the PNW HT group. How might I find it?

By the way, in a quiet room I can here when e-shift is turned on, as a slight buzz.
Edited by Steve Goff - 1/4/13 at 10:05am
post #66 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Color points on mine were all below a dE of 3 in standard with no touch up.
By colour points you mean primaries/secondaries? Did you measure inside the gamut at all? I'm curious how well it tracks inside as you approach the center.

Some displays, like the highly-praised Sharp Elite LCD can look perfect at primary locations (near the outside) but fall apart as you come in.

Example:



(In the example above, squares are what you should get, circles are what is actually measured. Take the circled pairs: Near the outside the red primary measures nearly perfect while half way in it actually measures much undersaturated. Green is even worse. Yellow secondary is ok, blue is off, and cyan secondary leans towards blue as you move in. It's interesting that for years we assumed that if we got the 6 outside points right and the center point right that we assumed we were perfectlty "calibrated". A real eye opener, but I digress...)

If the RS56 tracks fairly well towards the center I won't bother putting a Radiance on it to fix it.
Quote:
I'm having a few quirks with my PJ so another one is on the way. I'll see if it is the same as far as out of the box accuracy.
Thanks - please do. What sort of quirks if you don't mind me asking?

I did find a (very) minor bug in the software: If you're ceiling mounted and use the "reset lens to center" feature in the menus, immediately after the cursor controls are backwards until you exit the menu and come back in. The software resets the remote directions as if you're table or floor mounted. Again, very minor.

Kal
post #67 of 444
I didn't measure inside the gamut yet, I will do that with the next one or maybe with this one if I get some time this weekend. I have an issue with the HDMI board that has it acting up a bit with different signals. The X55 I have in the room doesn't have any of the same issues so JVC thinks it may be a bad board. Doesn't really affect any viewing, just noticed some switching issues.
post #68 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Sounds good. I'm using essentially the same setting, though I haven't yet played with gamma.
So I joined FB, and have started looking for the PNW HT group. How might I find it?

It's under Seattle Home Theater Geeks. Sorry, forgot they changed the name.
post #69 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

It's under Seattle Home Theater Geeks. Sorry, forgot they changed the name.
Thanks, I'll take a look.
post #70 of 444
Well, I got my X75R up last night and was surprised how much bigger this chassis is vs the HD-950.



I also have the settings very close to those posted above until I get a few hours on it before calibration, and at this point the calibrated HD950 is as good a picture in 2D as the X75. The HD950 is also the best JVC projector I have owned. I will have to get used to the e-shift2 it seems to soften the picture to much to me. I watched some hockey and tried it with my HTPC and prefer it with the e-shift off. While watching a movie it looked OK. The Darbee was also put back into the video chain and helps as much as it did on the HD950 and will be removed when calibrating. The fan in 3D mode is louder than any of the past 3 JVC projectors and is a concern for 3D viewing. I'm not sure what to do with that yet! The convergence had to be shifted one complete row and is not as good as my HD950. The fine shift is interesting and can bring thing into alignment but I left that at 0. The THX mode on the HD950 was very good out of the box while the THX mode on the new X75 seems to be way off IMO. I do like being able to name your own user modes, also the lens memory is a nice addition. I am going to try and find discrete IR codes to get to that with my URC MX-6000 remote so I can automate the lens to shift up and powered screen to go up for 2:35 AR movies. I will do some more experimenting this weekend and maybe get my meter out and take some initial measurements.
post #71 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

I didn't measure inside the gamut yet, I will do that with the next one or maybe with this one if I get some time this weekend. I have an issue with the HDMI board that has it acting up a bit with different signals. The X55 I have in the room doesn't have any of the same issues so JVC thinks it may be a bad board. Doesn't really affect any viewing, just noticed some switching issues.
Interesting. I actually have HDMI switching issues too which I figured were with the MonoPrice 8462 HDMI switcher I'm using. The switcher would lock up and require an unplug/replug sometimes to switch again - the switcher remote and button on the switch itself would not work. I'll have to keep in mind that it may actually be the projector downstream causing issues and do further testing. The image on screen never had issues however.

This wouldn't be at all similar your HDMI issues would it?

Kal
post #72 of 444
No that isn't the same thing. I have some issues with noise in the image depending on what I feed it. We think it has to do with the HDMI board.

Also, I am not using MPC. I just don't see any benefit on my screen with it on.
post #73 of 444
Yup. Definitely different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Also, I am not using MPC. I just don't see any benefit on my screen with it on.
Makes it easier to accept for those of us who are not used to seeing any pixel structure at all ... wink.gif though for most seating distances it isn't going to be noticed much.

Kal
post #74 of 444
I'm seeing a fair amount of motion blur, maybe even more than on my RS1, though none of the zebra stripe effect I founds so discncerting on the RS1.
post #75 of 444
Interesting Steve. I had an RS2 and I saw some annoying motion banding issues that drove me nuts. They don't seem to have the same issue anymore with any of the content I use to test for it. There is some motion blur though, but I see that with just about any projector nowadays. What used to annoy me was the motion induced contouring that was pretty prevalent in the earlier JVC models. The new ones don't have this.
post #76 of 444
Kris........how do you find your new JVC compaired to the RS35 you have/had.....better in all aspects?
post #77 of 444
No. The RS35 was a bit sharper overall. Just a bit more refined in the optics. The X75 has slightly better contrast (which may change with bulb age) and doesn't exaggerate banding like the 35 did. They really are pretty comparable overall for 2D with the edge to the 75 for the lack of banding artifacts (which only happened on the 35 from time to time). RS35 was sharper and quieter and still throws a gorgeous image.
post #78 of 444
Yes, it just seems like straight motion blur without banding. I'll have to investigate more.
post #79 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

No. The RS35 was a bit sharper overall. Just a bit more refined in the optics. The X75 has slightly better contrast (which may change with bulb age) and doesn't exaggerate banding like the 35 did. They really are pretty comparable overall for 2D with the edge to the 75 for the lack of banding artifacts (which only happened on the 35 from time to time). RS35 was sharper and quieter and still throws a gorgeous image.


Thanks for that!
post #80 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Yes, it just seems like straight motion blur without banding. I'll have to investigate more.

Probably just a product of the refresh rate, source material (inherent in the source, since resolution does drop with motion) and how the projector is dithering to reduce banding. Probably no way to avoid it, in the end it is just how sensitive you are to it. I rarely notice it, I always expect a lower resolution in motion since even the material is recorded that way.
post #81 of 444
Got mine today.
I must say I am nowhere as technical as most posters in this thread.
Picture out of the box looks amazing to me.
I did pull up a test full screen image on my HTPC to check focus uniformity - very impressive, one corner is a tiny bit out of focus (that's with lens shifted all the way up). Compared to Panny 8000 which I returned because of focus uniformity issues this is night and day (then again with the price difference it better be!) In general the desktop and fonts on my HTPC look razor sharp compared to the Panasonics (currently have a 7000 still mounted on the old ceiling mount).

3D dongle and glasses arriving separately tomorrow, will test them then. However, 3D is really for Disney/Pixar kids cartoons so not a big deal for me, I bought this one mostly for 2D.

Also haven't had the new ceiling mount installed yet so this is sitting on a portable workbench in my HT room.
post #82 of 444
I wonder if we should make an "Official JVC X95/RS66 and JVC X75/RS56" thread? Since aside from contrast ratio have identical feature set. Last night I switched my screen adjustment to the number listed on JVC's website here. In my case number #14 is what I used. It did make a noticeable improvement in picture quality.
post #83 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post

I wonder if we should make an "Official JVC X95/RS66 and JVC X75/RS56" thread? Since aside from contrast ratio have identical feature set. Last night I switched my screen adjustment to the number listed on JVC's website here. In my case number #14 is what I used. It did make a noticeable improvement in picture quality.

I looked at that before but my Draper acoustic isnt even on that list, what does one do in cases like this?
post #84 of 444
Tried 3D RF dongle and my 1 pair of glasses.
Looks good. In a dark room certainly no subjective brightness difference between Panasonic 7000.
I must say, though, that 1 pair of JVC glasses costs as much as 3 pairs of Panasonic glasses - ouch...
Given that if you have guests over, usually safe number of glasses to have around is eight, so the cost will be really painful.
Almost makes me think that I should keep my Panny for 3D and have two projectors hanging from the ceiling, although this would be quite crazy. smile.gif
post #85 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I looked at that before but my Draper acoustic isnt even on that list, what does one do in cases like this?

I would look at the number 24-29 on the chart. Then email Draper and ask them about the gain on your screen vs the ones listed. Also, I tried a few calibration disk's tonight and ended up with +10 contrast and -3 on brightness. I noticed some very light red in the contrast charts.
post #86 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by durack View Post

Tried 3D RF dongle and my 1 pair of glasses.
Looks good. In a dark room certainly no subjective brightness difference between Panasonic 7000.
I must say, though, that 1 pair of JVC glasses costs as much as 3 pairs of Panasonic glasses - ouch...
Given that if you have guests over, usually safe number of glasses to have around is eight, so the cost will be really painful.
Almost makes me think that I should keep my Panny for 3D and have two projectors hanging from the ceiling, although this would be quite crazy. smile.gif
Apparently the latest Panasonic RF glasses work with the jvc projectors and RF emitter.
post #87 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Apparently the latest Panasonic RF glasses work with the jvc projectors and RF emitter.

Good news. Anyone knows if Samsung's 3D RF glasses also will work with JVC?
post #88 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I looked at that before but my Draper acoustic isnt even on that list, what does one do in cases like this?

Since you have no idea exactly what is being changed, I would suggest just leaving it at the 'default' setting and calibrating the projector. These are likely screen offsets provided by the manufacturer to counteract how the screen reflects light and the types of colour shifts it exhibits over the spectrum. Doing a proper calibration will take care of this since calibrating a front projector takes the screen into the equation since you measure off the screen.

These sorts of screen correction are a cludge to doing a proper calibration. Picking a certain screen doesn't mean you're going to get correct greyscale and colours necessarily any more than picking 6500K is going to mean you're going to get a flat 6500K across the board.

If you intend on doing a proper calibration I would most certainly NOT use screen correction. Just set it to default and let calibration take care of everything. Otherwise you're applying a change (your calibration setting) on top of a change (screen correction).
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post

Also, I tried a few calibration disk's tonight and ended up with +10 contrast and -3 on brightness. I noticed some very light red in the contrast charts.

Using something like the AVS709 disc make sure you're not clipping whites or crushing blacks. At +10 contrast you must have the HDMI input set to "ENHANCED" (0-255 range) or "SUPER WHITE" (16-255) instead of "STANDARD" (16-235 range)? Otherwise you'd most likely be clipping whites.

Kal
post #89 of 444
Hi Kal,
Yeah, I have the HDMI setting set to "enhanced". This is very close to what my calibrated HD-950 was at as well.
post #90 of 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickS View Post

Hi Kal,
Yeah, I have the HDMI setting set to "enhanced". This is very close to what my calibrated HD-950 was at as well.

I also use Enhanced on my X95 as Standard always crushes the blacks. My result is the same as yours +10 contrast, -3 brightness.
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