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"The Truth Hz - Your DIY Setup Can't Handle This" - a compilation of infrasonic music by Dub King - Page 2

post #31 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

OK I admit that I saw kryptonitewhite's ceiling fan video on youtube. can't tonight, he's got 3 hz manifesting as vibrations in ceiling fan blades. I guess I'm going to have to go down to 2 hz.

Actually, in one of his videos, he said his ceiling was actually moving up and down about an inch at 6Hz. 2:20 into this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znEilhKkSnk&list=UUQR3hEhV1Qd-Cez31Bo-fGQ&index=5&feature=plcp

Earlier in the video he explained how he beefed up his ceiling bracing system. If it's moving his ceiling that much, it's gotta be tactile.

Then, of course, there are those who have the Thigpen Rotary Woofer. They claim audibility down to 5Hz (at 110db, 10% distortion)

http://www.eminent-tech.com/woofercomparison.html

This agrees with scientific articles:

http://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=2004;volume=6;issue=23;spage=37;epage=57;aulast=Moller

Check out the first several figures at the bottom of the page. Two studies found audibility down to 2Hz at 110-120db. (Figure 2) 6 studies have gone down to at least 5Hz, and they all agree that about 104-110db is the threshold for audibility, and at 10Hz, 95-100db is the threshold. (Figure 9). Further, 10Hz at 110db sounds about as loud as 100Hz at 70db (Figure 18). The catch is designing a room that can contain 10Hz at 110db without generating more than 70db of noise from everything shaking, rattling, and rolling! I'll bet it could be done with some hard-core over-engineering of a room.
post #32 of 127
Thread Starter 
Let's call it 'feelable' because it's not audible. I'm impressed that we can go so low these days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

Actually, in one of his videos, he said his ceiling was actually moving up and down about an inch at 6Hz. 2:20 into this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znEilhKkSnk&list=UUQR3hEhV1Qd-Cez31Bo-fGQ&index=5&feature=plcp
Earlier in the video he explained how he beefed up his ceiling bracing system. If it's moving his ceiling that much, it's gotta be tactile.
Then, of course, there are those who have the Thigpen Rotary Woofer. They claim audibility down to 5Hz (at 110db, 10% distortion)
http://www.eminent-tech.com/woofercomparison.html
This agrees with scientific articles:
http://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=2004;volume=6;issue=23;spage=37;epage=57;aulast=Moller
Check out the first several figures at the bottom of the page. Two studies found audibility down to 2Hz at 110-120db. (Figure 2) 6 studies have gone down to at least 5Hz, and they all agree that about 104-110db is the threshold for audibility, and at 10Hz, 95-100db is the threshold. (Figure 9). Further, 10Hz at 110db sounds about as loud as 100Hz at 70db (Figure 18). The catch is designing a room that can contain 10Hz at 110db without generating more than 70db of noise from everything shaking, rattling, and rolling! I'll bet it could be done with some hard-core over-engineering of a room.
post #33 of 127
Of course the TRW is something like $17K installed and it's worthless above, what, 40Hz? I think I might start a thread to gauge if any engineer types are interested in designing/fabricating a TRW Clone... I've followed the TRW for years now and it seems very similar to an IB setup.

Ever crack the rear window of your car while driving down the highway and have your cabin pressure flex at like 3Hz? Same concept... Kinda fun/uncomfortable...
smile.gif
post #34 of 127
Thread Starter 
Lol, I was thinking about wind buffeting just yesterday and wondered around what frequency that usually is in a typical sedan. Talk about an LLT! Still, as of today I'm convinced I need two types of subs to really be happy - a very agile dipole (10" seems ideal) front and center and then one or more brutes to handle the sub 40hz stuff. I've already got the best room EQ that I've been able to achieve using this configuration, one of each.,
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Of course the TRW is something like $17K installed and it's worthless above, what, 40Hz? I think I might start a thread to gauge if any engineer types are interested in designing/fabricating a TRW Clone... I've followed the TRW for years now and it seems very similar to an IB setup.
Ever crack the rear window of your car while driving down the highway and have your cabin pressure flex at like 3Hz? Same concept... Kinda fun/uncomfortable...
smile.gif
post #35 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Of course the TRW is something like $17K installed and it's worthless above, what, 40Hz? I think I might start a thread to gauge if any engineer types are interested in designing/fabricating a TRW Clone... I've followed the TRW for years now and it seems very similar to an IB setup.
Ever crack the rear window of your car while driving down the highway and have your cabin pressure flex at like 3Hz? Same concept... Kinda fun/uncomfortable...
smile.gif

There was already a guy doing it on the forums. Though I haven't seen the thread in a while, he was pretty close to done I think.
post #36 of 127
Nice work, some chill stuff there. I found myself waiting for something to drop heavy, but of course never did.

Not sure if it has something to do with the levels from streaming, or my PS3 streaming, or whatever, but i didnt find the levels that hot at normal listening levels.

If you perform this stuff out though the venue is gonna need a LOT of Lab Subs to reproduce the stuff under 30 or your audience might miss some of your work.

I didnt get that much high level stuff @20 and below though on the first 4 tracks, thats as far as I got.

It lit the christmas tree about halfway wink.gif
post #37 of 127
Thread Starter 
Hi there,

Glad you liked some of the tracks. Thanks for bringing up the PS3 because I have never bothered to use DLNA since I have a dedicated HTPC. This morning I set it up to stream. The only possible issue is the PS3's willingness to convert bitrates which does result in slight degradation is some cases. I found a very slight loss in definition in the deep bass in tracks streamed through the PS3 vs. my HTPC - and specifically the subtle changes in frequency were lost, rendering the same note when there should have been slight variations. ULF sounds seemed to be a bit duller and less intense. At least on a PC I can be 100% sure a file is playing with zero processing. The PS3 will not stream 24/96 files which is too bad because there are real benefits to feeding a receiver a 24/96 file, especially if the track is processed by the receiver in any way before output (that includes bass management in 2.1 systems).

I don't put heavy audio compressors on my tracks which means the will play quieter than music that's club and radio-friendly. I won't be doing live shows anytime soon, I'm definitely more comfortable in a studio than on a stage and besides you are right, it's near-impossible to reproduce this stuff properly without a system designed to handle it, which is more likely to be found in a high-end night club than in a concert venue.


PS3 appears to deal with DLNA streaming differently than local files. Not good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Nice work, some chill stuff there. I found myself waiting for something to drop heavy, but of course never did.
Not sure if it has something to do with the levels from streaming, or my PS3 streaming, or whatever, but i didnt find the levels that hot at normal listening levels.
If you perform this stuff out though the venue is gonna need a LOT of Lab Subs to reproduce the stuff under 30 or your audience might miss some of your work.
I didnt get that much high level stuff @20 and below though on the first 4 tracks, thats as far as I got.
It lit the christmas tree about halfway wink.gif
post #38 of 127
Thread Starter 
Here's "Deepdropper Wooferblower"

It's a file to mess with that has 'unreproducable' bass notes in it. It's not really a song, the beat and the melody are only there to support the low notes, which come in at 0:24. I deliberately used C in four octaves because it is almost binary (C0 = 16.352 hz). The sequence is C1, C0, C-1, D-1, D-2, F-2, C-2, C-1 which repeats through the track - so what we have is a repeating bass line that consists of (rounding to one decimal) 32.7hz, 16.3hz, 8.2hz, 9.1hz, 4.5hz, 5.5hz, 4.1hz, 8.2hz

Don't blow your speakers/sub. Have fun. It looks cool on my system but I'm not getting any sound or 'feeling' under C0. If you can hear (feel) more than two notes in the bassline, you know you've 'made it' to bass nirvana. Good luck.

16/44 wav file download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower/download

Soundcloud Stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower

Edit: The soundcloud streaming player plays the file properly, including the lowest frequencies.
Edited by imagic - 8/18/12 at 4:48pm
post #39 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Here's "Deepdropper Wooferblower"

It's a file to mess with that has 'unreproducable' bass notes in it. It's not really a song, the beat and the melody are only there to support the low notes, which come in at 0:24. I deliberately used C in four octaves because it is almost binary (C0 = 16.352 hz). The sequence is C1, C0, C-1, D-1, D-2, F-2, C-2, C-1 which repeats through the track - so what we have is a repeating bass line that consists of (rounding to one decimal) 32.7hz, 16.3hz, 8.2hz, 9.1hz, 4.5hz, 5.5hz, 4.1hz, 8.2hz

Don't blow your speakers/sub. Have fun. It looks cool on my system but I'm not getting any sound or 'feeling' under C0. If you can hear (feel) more than two notes in the bassline, you know you've 'made it' to bass nirvana. Good luck.

16/44 wav file download: http://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower

Soundcloud Stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower

Edit: The soundcloud streaming player plays the file properly, including the lowest frequencies.

Haha!  Deepdropper Wooferblower!!!!  Thats hilarious!!

 

Yeah, I was streaming off soundcloud.

 

Me thinks some on here might take "unreproducable" as a challenge.....  ;)

post #40 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Me thinks some on here might take "unreproducable" as a challenge.....  wink.gif

I think the primary point of this thread is that MOST of Dub's tracks are a challenge.

Nick, how do your dual MFW's hang with this material? When do your subs start to roll off?
post #41 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Me thinks some on here might take "unreproducable" as a challenge.....  wink.gif

I think the primary point of this thread is that MOST of Dub's tracks are a challenge.

Nick, how do your dual MFW's hang with this material? When do your subs start to roll off?

I def. agree some pretty demanding stuff.

 

I'm only running 6 MFWs now and a 21" Mael(I.B.) but I think I got most of it....

 

post #42 of 127
Thread Starter 
As far as commerically recorded music goes, it's hard to beat Jack Dangers aka "Meat Beat Manifesto" for deep bass. One of my standard test tracks... if not THE standard, is 'Zenta'. All I've got is a youtube link. That man's got some oscillators. The entire album "Answers come in Dreams" made me rethink how much bass to put into my music.
post #43 of 127
Thread Starter 
Whoa. One of my oldest tracks is also one of my deepest. You can thank a Korg M3 for the infrasounds. 'Stolen Song' by Dub King

download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/stolen-song/download

Stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/stolen-song
post #44 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

I def. agree some pretty demanding stuff.

I'm only running 6 MFWs now and a 21" Mael(I.B.) but I think I got most of it....

Respect... That sounds like an interesting setup bro. Man, I'd love to hear how your IB compliments your MFW's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Whoa. One of my oldest tracks is also one of my deepest. You can thank a Korg M3 for the infrasounds. 'Stolen Song' by Dub King
download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/stolen-song/download
Stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/stolen-song

Keep em'coming buddy! I'm digging the consistency.
post #45 of 127
Agreed, keep posting more of these...

JSS
post #46 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Here's "Deepdropper Wooferblower"

It's a file to mess with that has 'unreproducable' bass notes in it. It's not really a song, the beat and the melody are only there to support the low notes, which come in at 0:24. I deliberately used C in four octaves because it is almost binary (C0 = 16.352 hz). The sequence is C1, C0, C-1, D-1, D-2, F-2, C-2, C-1 which repeats through the track - so what we have is a repeating bass line that consists of (rounding to one decimal) 32.7hz, 16.3hz, 8.2hz, 9.1hz, 4.5hz, 5.5hz, 4.1hz, 8.2hz

Don't blow your speakers/sub. Have fun. It looks cool on my system but I'm not getting any sound or 'feeling' under C0. If you can hear (feel) more than two notes in the bassline, you know you've 'made it' to bass nirvana. Good luck.

16/44 wav file download: http://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower

Soundcloud Stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower

Edit: The soundcloud streaming player plays the file properly, including the lowest frequencies.

Can you fix the download link on the first one?
I've downloaded all these to my USB stick and will play later today.

I'd like to compare these tracks with some of my other ones
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post


Saturn V rocket sound #2 clips driven by Infinite Baffle subwoofer "Usul"



Saturn V rocket sound #4 clips driven by Infinite Baffle subwoofer "Usul"

Edited by mtbdudex - 8/18/12 at 11:36am
post #47 of 127
Thread Starter 
Link is fixed. Compiled list in the first post coming soon!

https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/deepdropper-wooferblower/download
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Can you fix the download link on the first one?
I've downloaded all these to my USB stick and will play later today.
I'd like to compare these tracks with some of my other ones
post #48 of 127
Little video of the xxx's playin Dead Serious dub. Think they still had some more excursion to go, no wierd noises or anything. felt like the house was going to come apart.

th_2012-08-18_17-07-50_506.jpg
post #49 of 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

OK I've got my first 'excursion video'. I'm pleased to introduce my highly temporary subwoofer, a 2 cubic foot car box fitted with a Polk Mobile Monitor 15" DVC 4ohm driver, powered by a Crown XTI-1000. I'm powering each voice coil with one channel from the amp at 4 ohms. Combined power rating on the woofer is 425 watts continuous, so figure just over 200 watts per coil... and the Crown is putting out 500 watts/channel into 4 ohms. I feel like it sounds better than wiring 8 ohms and mono-blocking the XTi, which is supposed to offer 1,200 watts at 8 ohms. It just seems like having two channels allows more bandwidth or something. I'd love it if someone had an insight.
Minimal mods include smearing 10 lbs. of duct putty (plasticine) into all the inside corners and across the entire back wall, for resonance damping and for additional air-tightness, then about 2" of poly fill was placed on top of that. The box is sandwiched between 18"x18" paver stones... one on the bottom and three on top. Each 'layer' of the sub has strips of duct putty which compresses and bonds the whole thing together, although not fully permenantly, just enough to make the whole thing one large, non-resonant solid mass. The final sub weighs just shy of 200 lbs. and rests on top of felt/rubber sliders, with the felt side down so I ca move it by pushing... but it will not move on it's own no matter how hard it is hitting.
This really is a placeholder sub while I do my research and decide what to build for my first true DIY sub(s), still it's done a great job considering the stones, putty, box and driver cost under $200 total and it does a legitimate 16hz - although tripling the box size would buy me 3-4 decibels in the 10-20 hz range and that's appealing. The reason I tried the Polk MoMo is that it modeled nearly identically to the LMS Ultra 5400, in terms of linearity and the degree of falloff (slope & curve?). The big difference, of course, is power handling and displacement. Still I wonder if 3-4 Polk MoMos would perform similarly to one Ultra because the price is so good on the MoMos, and the benefits of multiple subwoofers is apparent, that approach is something I'm considering, even though I'd love to have nicer drivers. I'm still not ruling out getting one Ultra, FWIW... but I gotta say I like the Polk a lot and it is a Neo driver which is one reason I had to weigh down the box so much, the sub-woofer itself weighed almost nothing.
My camera does not have a great Mic, you can't hear any bass, but rest assured my internal organs were shaking.
So, without further ado... "The Joy of Minimal", played in the studio in which it was created.


Here's "The Joy of Minimal" on the LMS-18.
There was one dude on AVS that had dual TRW's (I think it was this site?)... I'm sure someone will dig it back up.
I wasn't able to play Deepdropper at all because my pre-amp doesn't take kindly to stuff <10hz, it messes with it, making it sound all weirded out.

post #50 of 127
Thread Starter 
I'm juggling real work with hoobies, so a brand-new ULF/LFE song will have to wait a day or two. For now, a classic... The Dark Ambience of Minimal. It's got subterranean drones and tight, punchy drum kicks so you can get a feel for depth and punch/slam with this track. It's still fairly mellow though, think soundtrack not dubstep.

The Dark Ambience of Minimal by Dub King

download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/the-ambience-of-minimalism-dub/download
stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/the-ambience-of-minimalism-dub

"This song had a tortured birth, three alternate mixes were sacrificed so that it may live. Sub bass mingles with cutting crystal highs creating an audio feast for the synapses. Rewards careful listening and audiophile-grade presentation."
post #51 of 127
Thread Starter 
Brand new track “Bottom Dweller Dub”. This is my first ULF track post-AVS DIY. My subwoofers never sounded so good, thanks to incredible treasure-trove of deep-bass knowledge here in this forum. This track is dedicated to you! 24Bit 96khz .wav file rendered with the finest dithering money can buy. I concentrated on the most famous infrasonic note of all, C0 aka the big pipe organ note aka 16.352hz. You get to hear that note as a nice, thick sound... not those wimpy sine waves that overheat your amp but fail to rattle the soul... but rather something really thick and powerful and deep. Honestly, I could not have mastered this track without the knowledge I've recently gained from this forum so thank you all.|

Bottom Dweller Dub by Dub King

BTW, yes, you should take my (the song's) disclaimer seriously. I pushed this track right to the point where my subs were bottoming out, after setting a nice listening level. Talk about 'mastering'. I'm running dipoles so my subs bottom out relatively easily, but still be warned the second half of this track has really intense bass.

24/96 download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/bottom-dweller-dub/download
stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/bottom-dweller-dub
post #52 of 127
WOW!!!
Thanks so much for doing this...please MORE!!

Love it man...
post #53 of 127
Dub King!

Props for compiling everything in your first post!!! Great idea!

Makes it super convenient to have everything in one place to reference vs. combing through the thread.
post #54 of 127
Thread Starter 
I'm wrapping up a big project this weekend, which will allow me to get some new material produced. Big things are coming to this thread, especially once I have my new sub(s) built and can accurately master tracks that utilize ULF/LFE sounds. That's less than two weeks away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Dub King!
Props for compiling everything in your first post!!! Great idea!
Makes it super convenient to have everything in one place to reference vs. combing through the thread.
post #55 of 127
Some great tracks. Love the fact that there on Soundcloud and of HQ. Hate Youtube quality.

Played a few of the songs on the bass part of my 3 way speaker and watched the woofers bounce. LOL.......had to turn the volume way down. Cant wait to finally have subs very soon.
post #56 of 127
Thread Starter 
I'm waiting to put together my 'dream' sub system. Here's my 'placeholder' system. I'm finding that displacement and watts are by far the most important elements to having great bass. How you implement these things is subject to so many variables. After trying just about every combo I could imagine, I've settled on 12" subs in small, high tuned (SHT) enclosures, in vertical arrays. I might even use the DXi's because they are dirt cheap ($75.00 at Best Buy when on sale)) and they are mechanically silent even at full excursion. They are completely devoid of frills, but have good engineering where it counts. I expect to field 6 12" DXi's and a pair of 15" MoMo, and to that I'll add an infrasonic module, likely made from a Kicker Solo-X 18", which will be dedicated to the 8-32hz range.

Anyhow here's the temporary tower of bass, which at least is capable of playing back my own tracks accurately.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Some great tracks. Love the fact that there on Soundcloud and of HQ. Hate Youtube quality.
Played a few of the songs on the bass part of my 3 way speaker and watched the woofers bounce. LOL.......had to turn the volume way down. Cant wait to finally have subs very soon.

Edited by imagic - 9/2/12 at 9:11am
post #57 of 127
Thread Starter 
Here's a quicky, the loop I use to break-in new subwoofer drivers. Just a complex low rumble, a bit nauseating but undeniably powerful:

download 24/96: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/sub-break-in/download
download 16/44: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/subwoofer-break-in-loop-16-44/download

soundcloud stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/sub-break-in
post #58 of 127
Heeehehe...



Yeeeah, I like it...
post #59 of 127
Thread Starter 
New Track "Throbberizer Dub" - this is a definite system-tester. The bass line goes real low for most of the track but in the final 45 seconds it goes subterrainean... the first ultra-deep note is at 2:48 - if your sub plays it properly (you gotta really feel it) you are golden. For many folks, the woofers are just going to move silently.

24/96 download: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/throbberizer-dub/download
Soundcloud stream: https://soundcloud.com/psychedelicious/throbberizer-dub
post #60 of 127
Great tracks again. I just got my pair of 21's so hopefully I will replay these tracks in the next week.biggrin.gif
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