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Amplifier for Revel Salon2 for 10K or less.

post #1 of 460
Thread Starter 
Im looking to buy an amplifier for my new Revel Salon2s. Budget is about 10K , Obviously I prefer to spend as little as possible as long as it doesn't effect the sound quality.
It can be a pair of monos or a stereo. 300wpc or more. I prefer an amp that excels or at least does better than average in all areas. I listen to a wide range of music but mostly classical musci and classic rock.
Please mention if your recommendation based on personal experience.
Im open to al brands.
I checked all other threads including Revels owners but didn't find a sufficient answer.
I appreciate your input. You are welcome to send me private messages. I live in Westchester NY.
Thank you.
post #2 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

Im looking to buy an amplifier for my new Revel Salon2s. Budget is about 10K , Obviously I prefer to spend as little as possible as long as it doesn't effect the sound quality.
It can be a pair of monos or a stereo. 300wpc or more. I prefer an amp that excels or at least does better than average in all areas. I listen to a wide range of music but mostly classical musci and classic rock.
Please mention if your recommendation based on personal experience.
Im open to al brands.
I checked all other threads including Revels owners but didn't find a sufficient answer.
I appreciate your input. You are welcome to send me private messages. I live in Westchester NY.
Thank you.

You mention a $10k budget yet over and over and over, double blind studies say one can't tell the difference between expensive and less expensive Amps.

confused.gif
post #3 of 460
Best Value in Über amps would be the JC1 monos and a good preamp for them would be the JC2.
post #4 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

You mention a $10k budget yet over and over and over, double blind studies say one can't tell the difference between expensive and less expensive Amps.
confused.gif

Just wondering, what is "less expensive"? Like does this include say a $45.00 cheapo amp vs "expensive" $1000.00 +?

I see it as like $2000.00 amp vs $12000.00 amp is the same sound, but there is no way very cheap amps can compare.
post #5 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

I see it as like $2000.00 amp vs $12000.00 amp is the same sound, but there is no way very cheap amps can compare.

It's been proven, over and over and over again, when a double blind test procedure is used, the individual being tested, cannot accurately choose beyond that of random chance.
post #6 of 460
You can check out the Bryston Amps. Rock solid w/plenty of power. The 14B SST-2 is $9,550 and 600 wpc. Or the 4B SST-2 $4995 300WPC. All Bryston amps carry a full 20 warranty which is the best in the business. Also if you want to sell the amp in the future the warranty what's left goes to the new owner. This gives a Bryston amp a higher resale value down the road in case you want to get something else. These amps won't break a sweat running your Revels.smile.gif
post #7 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

It's been proven, over and over and over again, when a double blind test procedure is used, the individual being tested, cannot accurately choose beyond that of random chance.

What I am asking is, does this include like crap amps such as a $20 car deck/amplifier? What is the "minimum" cost for "all amps sound the same" to be accurate?

Or are you saying I could go buy a piece of garbage like http://www.amazon.com/LP-2020A-Lepai-Tripath-Class-T-Amplifier/dp/B0049P6OTI/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1344822730&sr=8-9&keywords=stereo+receiver and it sounds as good as a $9550.00 Bryston 14B?

I'm pretty sure the blind tests are all done on "decent" amplifiers.
post #8 of 460
I was hoping the question the op asked would be answered without the obligatory amp debate coming up. Honestly, no offense to the person who brought it up but do you feel like you are bound by some kind of duty to stop people from purchasing five figure amps? It seems to make your blood boil. Just curious why there needs to be a caped crusader who pops up in these threads.
post #9 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

What I am asking is, does this include like crap amps such as a $20 car deck/amplifier? What is the "minimum" cost for "all amps sound the same" to be accurate?

I don't know what the exact price comparison is. My recollection is that the Amps being compared are the regular Joe kind of Amp such as an Emotiva vs a Classe Amp. I do know the tests are being done on home audio amplifiers as opposed to an amplifier one would find in their car. Once the curtain is drawn and the person who claims to have Golden Ears is asked, their accuracy falls to statistical chance.
post #10 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post

You can check out the Bryston Amps. Rock solid w/plenty of power. The 14B SST-2 is $9,550 and 600 wpc. Or the 4B SST-2 $4995 300WPC. All Bryston amps carry a full 20 warranty which is the best in the business. Also if you want to sell the amp in the future the warranty what's left goes to the new owner. This gives a Bryston amp a higher resale value down the road in case you want to get something else. These amps won't break a sweat running your Revels.smile.gif

Agree the 4B will drive them just fine, it is a great amp. I bought one after using one to audition Studio2s.
post #11 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by g_bartman View Post

I was hoping the question the op asked would be answered without the obligatory amp debate coming up. Honestly, no offense to the person who brought it up but do you feel like you are bound by some kind of duty to stop people from purchasing five figure amps? It seems to make your blood boil. Just curious why there needs to be a caped crusader who pops up in these threads.

No, I'm not a crusader. To anybody who asks a question in the fashion asked, it's reasonable to make the comment I made, that's the why? It would stand to reason that anybody who buys this price of speaker, would ask the person they're buying the speaker from; what Amp best drives these speakers? Agreeing with you, if after reading my comment, it's none of my business what they choose to do.

As to an Amp choice, it better be a high current Amp.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/12/12 at 7:37pm
post #12 of 460
Emotiva amps a great amps and they will run way, way under you budget.

http://emotiva.com/
post #13 of 460
A pair of Emotiva XPA-1 mono blocks would be more than enough to drive those Revels to insane output. I just hope the OP isn't one of those that think the bass will be tighter, the highs will be more airy or crisp, or the midrange will open up with improved resolution by adding an expensive/higher power amp.
post #14 of 460
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

No, I'm not a crusader. To anybody who asks a question in the fashion asked, it's reasonable to make the comment I made, that's the why? It would stand to reason that anybody who buys this price of speaker, would ask the person they're buying the speaker from; what Amp best drives these speakers? Agreeing with you, if after reading my comment, it's none of my business what they choose to do.
As to an Amp choice, it better be a high current Amp.
-
Hi , Thanx for your reply, I asked the question from the seller and the response was Krell 402e , Mark Levinson N532 .
Im a noob and Im completely open to suggestions and respects opinions of you who are more experienced and knowledgeable than me.
Seeking advice here also has the benefit of suggestions witha some minor brand loyalty but no financial interest.
post #15 of 460
Krell, Mark Levinson, McIntosh, Bryston, Parasound Halo.

Of course, if you ask Kevin Voecks, the chief @ Revel, he will say Mark Levinson, Lexicon, ATI (who makes some amps for ML & Lexicon per their specifications).

For me, the 20yr warranty of Bryston steals the show if you must spend $5K or more.

If not, just get the ATI AT3002 for $1850 (equivalent to ML532). Except the ML is 100% prettier. The ATI is 7yr warranty & ML is 5 yr warranty.

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3002-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

The sound of the AT3002 will be as grand as any $10K amps you will find.

But if you believe in amp signatures and all that, you might as well believe in bi-amping and all that. biggrin.gif

So just get the AT3005 (equivalent to ML535) for $3K and bi-amp your Salon2.

http://www.classicaudioparts.com/index.php/amplifiers/ati-at3005-two-channel-x-300-watt-amplifier-b-stock-120-v.html

In case I haven't mention this like 100 times biggrin.gif, ATI makes some amps for Harman (Mark Levinson, Lexicon, JBL), Theta, Cary Audio, & B&K.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 8/13/12 at 6:55am
post #16 of 460
BTW, congratulations on your new Salon2. biggrin.gif

I knew you were in the hunt for $20K speakers. Also Peachtree amps? biggrin.gif

What did you compare the Salon2 to before buying? biggrin.gif

B&W 802D2? KEF 207/2?
post #17 of 460
This reviewer had the Revel's and a couple other speakers for the review of these. I happen to own a pair and love them. I understand that most people may have a negative opinion on Marantz but until you listen....

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue44/marantz_ma9s2.htm
post #18 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

Seeking advice here also has the benefit of suggestions witha some minor brand loyalty but no financial interest.

With your above in mind, your speakers need lots of power as they're a nominal <4 ohm speaker.

Two things, for your Amp choice, I'd recommend having an electrician run a separate circuit so your in wall wiring won't be challenged. Most house wiring is geared towards fifteen or twenty amps. According to Krell, the 402e will max draw >30A and I'd suggest each speaker get it's own amplifier. The Krell 402e is a current hog. Yes this will require pulling permits but that's a good thing as it assures the electrician is going do things up to code. Beware regarding your circuit box. If you circuit box is not up to existing code, the permit department can/will require you to install a whole new service box in to bring your electric service up to current electric codes. I'd have an electrician out first to do an evaluation so you're aware of costs as upgrading your service box to existing electrical codes is a good thing, not a bad thing.

I'd give Mark Levison a call to see what they have to say in mating their No. 532 up with your Salons as based on what I've read, power wise, they're a bad choice.

Hope the above gives you insight to your question as I know it's more a non-answer than a direct response to your question.

And yes, grumpy old men are the good guys as they won't steer you wrong; that's what makes them so grumpy.

(Helloooooo, Mr. Wilson! Oh good grief Martha.)

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/13/12 at 7:33am
post #19 of 460
I just don't see the point of spending umpteen thousand dollars on an amp when an amp that costs less than a grand will sound exactly the same.
post #20 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyng_fool View Post

I just don't see the point of spending umpteen thousand dollars on an amp when an amp that costs less than a grand will sound exactly the same.

I agree, but.......

Some people don't even believe a $10K Mark Levinson sounds "good enough" or is "powerful enough". eek.gif

So anything less than $2K or even $3K will automatically sound like crap to them even if they have never seen the amp. biggrin.gif

Screw any DBTs that prove people can't even tell the difference between a $300 amp and a $10,000 amp!

People will believe whatever they want to believe. No changing anyone's mind. If they have the money, they will spend.

I think it's 100% ridiculous to say that a 300wpc Mark Levinson or Marantz or Lexicon or any other quality amp isn't powerful enough.

The only amps powerful enough for some people are the same amps they just so happen to own. Truly convenient. biggrin.gif

ML, Lexicon, ATI are good enough for Kevin Voecks, the head guy @ Revel, just not good enough for some reviewers who think they know something.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 8/13/12 at 8:06am
post #21 of 460
I have heard the Peachtree Grant that sound great, but its a Integrated.
Doesn't hurt to give it a listen.
post #22 of 460
Nothing in the world can defect the law of physic.
You can’t expect some tiny capacitors in the output section and expect it to provide enough current for the bass.

Not sure why, but it cost money to design properly and put in the correct components.
Its sucks, because I like to save some money.
post #23 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwong View Post

Nothing in the world can defect the law of physic.
You can’t expect some tiny capacitors in the output section and expect it to provide enough current for the bass.
Not sure why, but it cost money to design properly and put in the correct components.
Its sucks, because I like to save some money.

With all respect towards your above, when people can, isn't that why everybody is buying a pair of high quality 15" subs, to take the pressure of bass amplification off their speakers and amplifier? confused.gif

As to the design aspect, amplifier technology is old science, not new science and amplifiers and their designs are more commodities as opposed to leaps in technology; standards in circuit design. My opinion, mostly what you're paying for is the business/engineer's lifestyle (profit) as opposed to parts and design.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 8/13/12 at 9:34am
post #24 of 460
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

BTW, congratulations on your new Salon2. biggrin.gif
I knew you were in the hunt for $20K speakers. Also Peachtree amps? biggrin.gif
What did you compare the Salon2 to before buying? biggrin.gif
B&W 802D2? KEF 207/2?
Thanx , I listened to Kef 207/2 B&W 800D Salon2 and Studio2 , Adam tensor Gamma, Wilson Sophia 3, Mcintosh XRT1K , JBL K2 S9900 , .....
I ended up buying these showroom models at 50% off MSRP. They are in storage as I havent moved into my house, Now Im looking for Amp/Amps to drive them.
Your input is appreciated.
Babak
Edited by babak147 - 8/13/12 at 9:19am
post #25 of 460
Eye-candy and power.

MSRP: $11,500 so figure you can get at least 10-15% off that.

https://passlabs.com/products/amplifiers/x.5/x350.5

or the x250.5 for a bit less.

post #26 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

Thanx , I listened to Kef 207/2 B&W 800D Salon2 and Studio2 , Adam tensor Gamma, Wilson Sophia 3, Mcintosh XRT1K , JBL K2 S9900 , .....
I ended up buying these showroom models at 50% off MSRP. They are in storage as I havent moved into my house, Now Im looking for Amp/Amps to drive them.
Your input is appreciated.
Babak

I'm really jealous you got 50% off on your Salon2; wish I were as lucky as you. I paid more for the 802D2, and they don't retail $22,000 like the Salon2 either!

Obviously you will get all kinds of persuasion and dissuasion regarding amps. But who would you believe more? The chief designer of your Salon2 Kevin Voecks or someone else? biggrin.gif

When one of the magazines asked Kevin Voecks to select an amp to be reviewed with his Salon2, Kevin picked an ATI amp because he knew well that it would sound beautifully with his Salon2.

The ATI AT3002 is $1850 @ 26% off (msrp is $2500). Not 50% off like you're used to wink.gif , but pretty good.

As Kal Rubinson (editor of Stereophile & AVS member) and many others will tell you, the biggest impact on sound is the speakers, not the amps.

The important thing with the amps is abundant power, whether it's ATI, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Theta, Cary, Anthem, Parasound, Classe, McIntosh, Bryston, Passlab, Marantz, Boulder, etc.

I know the ATI, ML, Lexicon, Theta, and Cary Audio are fully balanced designs and are built in California.

I power my Salon2, B&W 802D2, Orion3, and KEF 201/2 with all ATI amps, and they sound beautifully.

Irvrobinson also uses the ATI AT3004 to bi-amp his Salon2, and he loves it.
Edited by AcuDefTechGuy - 8/13/12 at 10:16am
post #27 of 460
Thread Starter 
I have a question here. If the sound difference all comes down to power and sound signature of a certain Amplifier then does it mean that the whole HiFi/AV/Audio publication industry is just selling snake oil ?
I'm new to this so please dont hesitate to correct me.
Here is some candidates across a wide price range why should I chose one above the other:
In no special order
- Wyred4Sound W4S ST-1000 STEREO 570WPC Class D Amp New for $2000
- Parasound Halo JC 1 400WPC MSRP $9000
- Sanders Magtech Stereo 500WPC $5000
- Classe CA-M600 Mono 600WPC $5500 each
- Bryston - 14B-SST2 600wpc Stereo $9550
- Cary Audio SA-500.1 Mono 500WPC $10000 pair
- McCormack Audio DNA 750 Mono 650wpc $9500 Pair
- Mcintosh mc452 Stereo 450WPC $7500
- Mcintosh mc501 Mono 500WPC $10000
- Perreaux 750 prisma Mono 750wpc $8495 Pair
- SimAudio Moon 400M Mono 400WPC $7000 Pair
- Threshold S/7000e Mono 600WPC $9500 Pair
- Bel Canto REF1000M Mono 500WPC Class D $6000 Pair
- Peachtree Audio Grand Integrated Stereo 400WPC $4295
- ATI AT3002 Stereo 300WPC $1850
- Passlab X350.5 Stereo 350WPC $11500
- Krell 402e Stereo 400WPC Display $10000
- Marantz MA-9S2 Mono 300WPC $12000 ( should be easily bought under 10K)
- Emotiva XPA-1 | 500WPC Mono $2000 Pair
.......
This is the result of my own homework and AVS family.
Please feel free to express your thoughts or other options that I have missed.
PS: Since I dont have a PreAmp either , what will be a good Preamp match with your choice of Amp.
Thank you.
Edited by babak147 - 8/13/12 at 11:07am
post #28 of 460
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcuDefTechGuy View Post

I'm really jealous you got 50% off on your Salon2; wish I were as lucky as you. I paid more for the 802D2, and they don't retail $22,000 like the Salon2 either!
Obviously you will get all kinds of persuasion and dissuasion regarding amps. But who would you believe more? The chief designer of your Salon2 Kevin Voecks or someone else? biggrin.gif
When one of the magazines asked Kevin Voecks to select an amp to be reviewed with his Salon2, Kevin picked an ATI amp because he knew well that it would sound beautifully with his Salon2.
The ATI AT3002 is $1850 @ 26% off (msrp is $2500). Not 50% off like you're used to wink.gif , but pretty good.
As Kal Rubinson (editor of Stereophile & AVS member) and many others will tell you, the biggest impact on sound is the speakers, not the amps.
The important thing with the amps is abundant power, whether it's ATI, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, Theta, Cary, Anthem, Parasound, Classe, McIntosh, Bryston, Passlab, Marantz, Boulder, etc.
I know the ATI, ML, Lexicon, Theta, and Cary Audio are fully balanced designs and are built in California.
I power my Salon2, B&W 802D2, Orion3, and KEF 201/2 with all ATI amps, and they sound beautifully.
Irvrobinson also uses the ATI AT3004 to bi-amp his Salon2, and he loves it.

The question is what is abundant of power for Salon2. When I was auditioning speakers I had a feeling that 300WPC was inadequate for Salon2s . My room is a relatively large room, Im wondering if 300WPC will do it justice or I will be on shopping road soon again.
post #29 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

I have a question here. If the sound difference all comes down to power and sound signature of a certain Amplifier then does it mean that the whole HiFi/AV/Audio publication industry is just selling snake oil ?

Mostly sex, status and profit for the owner. I think "snake oil" is reserved for interconnects. smile.gif

In the rich neighborhoods, even if the housing is aged and in need of serious upgrading ($200k-$300k) from it's fifty year or more old design, to keep the rif-raft out, housing prices are kept artificially high and don't accurately reflect the condition of the house but instead, reflect the glitter of the neighborhood; location, location, location. This axiom is very effective at keeping the low life out of the neighborhood. Not saying it's going prevent crime, just the type of crime committed. Go to a rich town on a Saturday afternoon and the drunk bad boys are right there, pushing and shoving people like their poop is special. The difference, in a poor neighborhood, the person being shoved would give the drunk a clinic on bad behavior. With money, all you get is a different class of drunk, the ill temperament is the same. And in my not so humble opinion, it's the same with amplifiers. Would you let your speakers play with my class of amplifier? And if I told the person you bought the speakers from, that I was going demo them with a $2k -$4k amplifier, would they nod their head in approval? And in double blind studies, like in a drunk tank, they're all the same; no better than random chance.

I'm not wearing a cape. In candor, I'm simply responding to your question. And with the above words, hopefully you'll line up your choices and make a choice. Oh, and there's nothing wrong with having a sexy looking Amp, buying an Amp that qualifies as a trophy (status) or with a business making a profit; "caveat emptor."
post #30 of 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by babak147 View Post

the whole HiFi/AV/Audio publication industry is just selling snake oil ?

A lot is pure marketing.

People don't want to read about boring "amps sound the same".

That would kill the audio industry and the magazines because people would not buy!

It is perfectly okay to spend $10K on amps if you are willing.

I would buy $20K amps just for kicks if I were a millionaire. But at the same time, I'm not going to try to convince people that my $20K amps sound so much better than any 300wpc amps. They will look better and may make me feel better, though. biggrin.gif
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