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WHY THX suggests the SBL & SBR speakers to be placed together on the back wall? Speaker placement...

post #1 of 16
8/13/12 at 12:07am
Thread Starter 


Should I add on another 2 surround back speakers if I am only able to place them together? If yes, by placing them together, any different on 1 speaker vs 2 surround back speakers? 6.1 vs 7.1?

What should I do?
A) Stick with 5.1
B) Add on another speaker at the back to setup as 6.1 channel.
C) Add on 2 speakers at the back (by placing them together) to become 7.1.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 16
8/13/12 at 4:39am
THX actually recommends a much wider separation of the rear surrounds when using the HD DD/DTS codecs.

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post #3 of 16
8/13/12 at 7:35am
It appears that THX suggest for them to be close in 7.1 but if not then make sure they are set as "apart" (greater than 48°) in the THX menu.

From THX...
Quote:
Surround Back Left & Right Speakers (SBL & SBR)*: The SBL & SBR speakers should be the direct firing type and placed together on the back wall. This allows the THX Advanced Speaker Array, or ASA technology to deliver its maximum effect. If the SBL and the SBR speakers can not be placed together, refer to your THX Certified Pre-amplifier or Receiver’s “THX Set Up” menu for alternative configurations.
Quote:
If you use Dolby® TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio™, your back surround speakers should be separated to produce a 60° angle from the main listening position. In addition, you should go to the “THX Set Up” Menu in your THX Certified AV Receiver/Pre-amp and set the ASA Surround Back Speaker setting to “Apart (greater than 48).
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post #4 of 16
8/13/12 at 6:48pm
Thread Starter 
Should I stick with 5.1? or move to 6.1? The only place that I can place my surround back speaker is behind my seat.

Thanks.
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post #5 of 16
8/13/12 at 6:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthuzist View Post

It appears that THX suggest for them to be close in 7.1 but if not then make sure they are set as "apart" (greater than 48°) in the THX menu.
From THX...

Meant if I were to use the THX cinema mode, then it is better to place them together? For normal surround sound mode (TrueHD and MasterHD), then it will be better to place them apart.?
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post #6 of 16
8/13/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenecctan View Post

Should I stick with 5.1? or move to 6.1? The only place that I can place my surround back speaker is behind my seat.
Thanks.

I have 6.1 now for 7 years and there aren't any material code for it optimally. I'm moving to 7.1 instead. I would either go with 5.1 if you are starting out and space is limited. If space/placement isn't a big issue, then go with 7.1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugenecctan View Post

Meant if I were to use the THX cinema mode, then it is better to place them together? For normal surround sound mode (TrueHD and MasterHD), then it will be better to place them apart.?

Correct. I have found that as long as you set it correctly in the menu and tune/tweak the settings manually or through Audyssey setup with mic, you will be pleased. If you have the space to properly locate each speaker, then you would get the optimal sound all around.
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post #7 of 16
8/13/12 at 8:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthuzist View Post

I have 6.1 now for 7 years and there aren't any material code for it optimally. I'm moving to 7.1 instead. I would either go with 5.1 if you are starting out and space is limited. If space/placement isn't a big issue, then go with 7.1.
Correct. I have found that as long as you set it correctly in the menu and tune/tweak the settings manually or through Audyssey setup with mic, you will be pleased. If you have the space to properly locate each speaker, then you would get the optimal sound all around.

Thanks for your suggestion, just wondering, if I were to setup as 6.1, is there any way to control speakers channel, e.g. If I am watching movies with 5.1 source, then my AVR will output as 5.1 rather than upmix to 6.1, but if for 7.1 channel source then my AVR will downmix to 6.1.
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post #8 of 16
8/13/12 at 8:32pm
You will have to consult your AVR's manual for those answers. My Yamaha was/is finicky with such things. I tried different settings PLIIx, DTS, 6 Channel, Neo, etc. but 6 channel always sound best for most and the others varied depending on what I was watching and wasn't consistent. However I didn't expect perfection from that setup. I owe it nothing and it served its purpose. Unfortunately I do this stuff all day. When I come home the last thing I want to do is recalibrate my setup.

I don't know if a 7.1 will down mix to a 6.1. I have yet to be in a situation to need/want to do that.
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post #9 of 16
8/14/12 at 1:25am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by enthuzist View Post

You will have to consult your AVR's manual for those answers. My Yamaha was/is finicky with such things. I tried different settings PLIIx, DTS, 6 Channel, Neo, etc. but 6 channel always sound best for most and the others varied depending on what I was watching and wasn't consistent. However I didn't expect perfection from that setup. I owe it nothing and it served its purpose. Unfortunately I do this stuff all day. When I come home the last thing I want to do is recalibrate my setup.
I don't know if a 7.1 will down mix to a 6.1. I have yet to be in a situation to need/want to do that.


Thanks for everything, you did help me a lot, I am using Pioneer LX53, any LX53 owners here? I am looking forward to learn anything here. Thanks.
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post #10 of 16
8/14/12 at 3:21am
Hi I currently have the Pioneer LX53 and currently have a 6.2 set up with the rear speaker placed centrally at the rear. My understanding, and it is limited, is that a 7.1 film I.e dark of the moon, will output the rear stero channels as one mono one. I have been messing around with this for some time now and one thing I know is, 6.1 sounds much better than 5.1. Thats IMO of course. Hope that helps.
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post #11 of 16
8/29/12 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your suggestion, I've just found out that my LX53 has limited surround mode available when playing Blu ray movie with Master HD audio, only THX Cinema, THX Music and THX game mode are available, Additional function like advance surround mode and Prologic function is not available. Anyone facing the same problem?
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post #12 of 16
8/29/12 at 6:28pm
Thread Starter 
I have feedback this issue to Pioneer, after 1 month investigation, they just get back to me that it is due to hardware issue. The memory buffer for LX53 cannot support advance surround mode and prologic mode if set to Master HD, the only solution is set it to PCM mode and use your blu ray player to decode HD audio, they don't want to take any responsibilities on the hardware issue and just told me that LX53 is design to be that way. I am so disappointed.....
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post #13 of 16
8/29/12 at 6:44pm
I seem to remember reading that 6.1 has problem due to phantom image in the front from reflection or something like that.

For 6.1 track, placing two identical channels together isn't a good idea because of interference.

I don't understand why the rigid adherence to THX. It isn't obligatory or part of Blu-ray. Common sense prevails.

There should be a user thread here, the US model is VSX-53.
Edited by Kilian.ca - 8/29/12 at 7:13pm
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post #14 of 16
8/29/12 at 9:23pm
Lifted from the Dolby Digital 6.1 EX License Manual..

"Dolby Digital EX is electrically equivalent to Dolby Digital + PLIIx Movie with 6.1 outputs. However to maintain continuity with current products and with Surround EX content, Dolby Digital EX will continue to be known as Dolby Digital EX.

Dolby does not recommend the use of a single Center Surround speaker in any system, as it can lead to a distracting "hot spot" right behind the listener. Ideally, the product has a 7.1 output to readily support Left Surround, Left Back Surround, Right Back Surround and Right Surround. When a 7.1 channel product is in the Dolby Digital EX mode, the Center Surround signal is divided equally, -3dB to the Left Back Surround and Right Back Surround speakers. As the Dolby Pro Logic IIx Movie mode offers greater spatial capabilities than 6.1 type decoders including Dolby EX..."

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
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post #15 of 16
9/4/12 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the information, I guess I will stick with 5.1 for now.
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post #16 of 16
9/5/12 at 5:11am
I've probably read about 5 different recommended speaker configurations. They all pretty much agree on the main 5. LCR and surrounds. The only difference being the height of the surrounds. The other 6 speakers (rears, heights and widths) play ambient sound 99.9% of the time, so excact placement isn't as important IMO. I would never place the rears right next to each other. I don't see how it's any different from having 1 speaker instead of 2. Plus if your rears are di-pole or bi-pole, you would have side speakers pointing into each other.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › WHY THX suggests the SBL & SBR speakers to be placed together on the back wall? Speaker placement suggestion - THANKS