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The Dark Knight Rises - Blu-Ray Aspect Ratio - Page 5

post #121 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff D View Post

It's a shame that they didn't present the IMAX scenes in full height as an extra feature on the Blu-ray, I'd love to have seen that. Heck, some enterprising nerd might've then spliced them into the film proper. Don't get me wrongo, I'm happy with TDK's presentation in that regard, and letterboxed 2.35 changing to pillarboxed 1.43 from shot to shot may have been mucho odd, but it would've been interesting to see nonetheless.
I still say that a 1.66 crop would work well for the IMAX scenes within the movie, giving us a smidgen more height without drastically affecting the width of the frame.

You are quite right ! 1.66 is a workable IMAX resolution (Apollo 13), which is also , incidentally, the European Widescreen! Its advantage is that its taller than Academy flat(1.85:1), but shorter than IMAX(1.43:1) , so its midway.
Oh and the entire film needn't change in the Blu Ray from letterbox 2.40:1 to pillarbox 1.43:1, cause that is not how it changed in the theatre. The only solution would be a to have the width of both the wide and the IMAX scenes to be kept same, pillarboxed within a Square frame within 16:9 HD cause there is no 4:3 HD format. But this could only work as a special feature, not for the entire running length!
post #122 of 203
1zvesqw.jpg

The overall best concession for differing ratios has already been done on the BR.
Best alternative for those who really want to see the entire IMAX frame would be a seamless branch option between the 1.78:1 crop or the full pillar-boxed 1.43:1 frame.

To suggest even further cropping of more pertinent horizontal visual information just to see more, less important, negative space headroom is odd if not outright absurd.

Attempting to conform the two ratios into one, entirely defeats the point of your premise of preserving the greater height of the IMAX frame.
In the theater the ratios did change.

Best Regards
KvE
Edited by KMFDMvsEnya - 9/9/12 at 12:40pm
post #123 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

1zvesqw.jpg
The overall best concession for differing ratios has already been done on the BR.
Best alternative for those who really want to see the entire IMAX frame would be a seamless branch option between the 1.78:1 crop or the full pillar-boxed 1.43:1 frame.
To suggest even further cropping of more pertinent horizontal visual information just to see more, less important, negative space headroom is odd if not outright absurd.
Best Regards
KvE

Couldn't help it, but this is quite a nice diplomatic reply to shut off others who are raising some interesting questions, or talking about some new exciting ways to watch the film.
Its not about seeing anything 'extra' Its about seeing the frame in its FULL original form, which is not available in HD at present. Hence the wish for uncropped IMAX scenes as a SPECIAL FEATURE on the BD, as all of us know, and I have stated above, that a full fledged 2.40:1 to 1.43:1 is just not going to happen, or desirable on a 16:9 screen for the entire run time of the Film.
post #124 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMFDMvsEnya View Post

1zvesqw.jpg
The overall best concession for differing ratios has already been done on the BR.
Best alternative for those who really want to see the entire IMAX frame would be a seamless branch option between the 1.78:1 crop or the full pillar-boxed 1.43:1 frame.
To suggest even further cropping of more pertinent horizontal visual information just to see more, less important, negative space headroom is odd if not outright absurd.
Attempting to conform the two ratios into one, entirely defeats the point of your premise of preserving the greater height of the IMAX frame.
In the theater the ratios did change.
Best Regards
KvE

How dare someone use a gif on here! did you not get the memo? tongue.gif
post #125 of 203
Oh. Oops.
Well this best embodies my reaction. Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
1zvesqw.jpg
Too soon?wink.gif

In my defense the letter head of the memo was not addressed to me and it is animated jpeg. Thus all should be well.

Best Regards
KvE
post #126 of 203
Looks like it'll be 2.40:1 and 1.78:1, according to the back of the box wink.gif

post #127 of 203
Good.
post #128 of 203
Bummer. Variable aspect on a scope screen does not work. Give us the constant aspect version as well just like they did for Transformers 2 and everyone will be happy.
Edited by Toe - 10/1/12 at 3:19pm
post #129 of 203
Obvious but due to the vitriol from the previous thread this thread will soon self implode think I am out before the fun starts.
post #130 of 203
The "fun" starts on December....whatever...when the BD comes out. biggrin.gif
post #131 of 203
Yeah , I am sooo out

funny-gif-man-jump-out-the-window.gif
post #132 of 203
frown.gif

Bye bye, video brosky.
post #133 of 203
lol that gif was funny.
post #134 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by luca_frontino View Post

IMAX is meant to be seen in its entirety, it doesn't matter if in the BD they would appear pillarboxed. To avoid this, I already said, they could easily make a 1440p transfer and push the format to a new standard alongside the Blu-Ray 3D and call it Blu-Ray IMAX.

I agree, with 4K being developed for home, there should be a 1.44 IMAX aspect ratio , and a IMAX TV (1.44) in 4K IMAX aspect. That'd be great, then the 15/70mm IMAX movies won't have to be cropped down to 1.78:1. But with the dwindling no. of Real IMAX theatres and the growing no. of LIEMAX theatres with a much smaller and wide looking aspect ratio, I fear this will never happen. New Digital IMAX cameras are being developed, which I think will have either 1.78:1, or 1.90:1(appr0x) aspect ratio, like the modern digital movie cameras. The only True 15/70 IMAX theater at Kolkata closed down in 2010, and now IMAX has announced plans to set up a number of "Specialized" IMAX screens(Liemax) across India. Shame, cause the IMAX screen which we had at Kolkata was folded down to a 2.35:1(approx) aspect ratio, is going to be both wider and perhaps even taller than the digital IMAX screens to be set up, muhahaha. Its an IMAX fail. The Folded down IMAX still looks great, and has retained the same speakers and setup of IMAX sound design and theatre geometry. So a normal 35mm movie on that screen looks bloody impressive! I saw TheDark Knight Rises on that "Folded" screen and it looked huge!
It is also Very Sad that unlike the last time, the DVd of TDKR won't have the original IMAX scenes pillarboxed in its original IMAX aspect ratio. So we'll never see the original IMAX scenes on home video in any form. frown.gif
frown.gif
post #135 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The "fun" starts on December....whatever...when the BD comes out. biggrin.gif

Starts a bit earlier over here its out next month. Put my pre order in.
post #136 of 203
As I understand it, IMAX uses a huge screen with patrons located fairly close for maximum immersive impact: consequently, much of the "extra" visual information is in the periphery of vision and largely unnoticed.

In a home environment, I expect few would sit close enough to the screen for a 4:3 recreation of the IMAX frame to have the same effect of extra visual information being in the periphery. Consequently, perhaps it makes sense to crop off that peripheral information, to a certain extent, in order to better represent the majority of the home theatre setups. Thus I could understand 1.66:1 or even 1.78:1 (at a push) to be the most effective compromise for the majority.

I doubt most consumers are sitting close enough to their current HDTVs to experience the immersion that the developers first envisioned with even 1.78:1 and scope movies: it's difficult to move away from a lifetime of experience with the old 4:3 CRT TV.

Quite frankly, I would have preferred the 4K format support the full IMAX frame, with "hints" for other framing aspects and players that can Pan and Zoom according to those hints, to create the aspect ratio the individual consumer requires. The same could be said for colour biases, grain and detail too. I believe the future is in giving the consumer the control over how they would like a movie to appear in their environment, with Director's presets of course.
post #137 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Good.
Shut up Scott. Unluss you want to come over and mask/un-mask my scope screen for me.wink.gif
post #138 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgibbons View Post

It's his film and should be presented to a home theater audience however he wishes. Nothing else matters.

Can we make this a sticky from now on? Or frame it? or a flash animation on the front page? tongue.gif
post #139 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Can we make this a sticky from now on? Or frame it? or a flash animation on the front page? tongue.gif

It worked for Dracula and French Connection
post #140 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgibbons View Post

The aspect ratio(s) of this release should be whatever Nolan wants. It's his film and should be presented to a home theater audience however he wishes. Nothing else matters.

Nolan did not want variable aspect in non-IMAX CIH commercial theater situations which is why there was a constant aspect version for these venues. Me and some other CIH folks would like this constant aspect option at home as well since variable aspect does not accomplish its intended purpose in these situations (again, which is why some commercial cinemas got a constant aspect version over variable) and constant aspect is the best option for those of us with CIH setups.

Give us both versions just like commercial theaters (and Transformers 2 did on blu ray) and EVERYONE will be happy.
Edited by Toe - 10/7/12 at 9:53am
post #141 of 203
I can see where both camps are coming from here. On the one side, I'm a big proponent of director's intent, and I found the experience on TDK to be pretty good, often not even noticing when the AR changed. On the flip side, I know there are CIH folks out there who would appreciate the choice. At least with TF2, there was a choice.. you could buy the normal CIH edition or the IMAX Experience edition or whatever they called it (I heard the AR switches in that film were handled very poorly, so I just bought the regular edition).

While CIH are in the minority, I'd wager their percentage among BD supporters is a lot higher than the percentage of BD discs that are released with a variable aspect ratio. Which is what... one disc in TDK?
post #142 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

BD discs that are released with a variable aspect ratio. Which is what... one disc in TDK?

The Dark Knight
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen "Big Screen Edition" (Walmart exclusive)
Tron Legacy
The Dark Knight Rises
post #143 of 203
yeah pretty much all IMAX films were in variable AR except for MI4. Tron just did it for kicks.
post #144 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi2016 View Post

I can see where both camps are coming from here. On the one side, I'm a big proponent of director's intent, and I found the experience on TDK to be pretty good, often not even noticing when the AR changed. On the flip side, I know there are CIH folks out there who would appreciate the choice. At least with TF2, there was a choice.. you could buy the normal CIH edition or the IMAX Experience edition or whatever they called it (I heard the AR switches in that film were handled very poorly, so I just bought the regular edition).
While CIH are in the minority, I'd wager their percentage among BD supporters is a lot higher than the percentage of BD discs that are released with a variable aspect ratio. Which is what... one disc in TDK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

The Dark Knight
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen "Big Screen Edition" (Walmart exclusive)
Tron Legacy
The Dark Knight Rises

Brainstorm
Galaxy quest
post #145 of 203
Totally forgot about Tron. TF2 was released in CIH version as well, so that one doesn't count.

Still.. my point stands, I think. More CIH users out there than AR-shifting BDs. It doesn't bother me at the moment, I'm using a 16:9 TV, but I won't be forever, and I may go CIH when I get a projector.
post #146 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by sb1 View Post

Shut up Scott. Unluss you want to come over and mask/un-mask my scope screen for me.wink.gif

Gotta watch a non-scope movie sometime, brosky. tongue.gif
post #147 of 203
My vote (as I've stated elsewhere): variable ratios. Love it on my TRON Legacy 3D Blu-ray, even when viewing in 2D (I am of the opinion that 16:9-screen-filling 3D is "the more the better"), and happily welcome it in TDKR!!! Brings back memories of having seen it at an IMAX theater in the first place, and do miss it on my M:I Ghost Protocol Blu-ray. Either way, I respect Nolan's or Bird's or Cameron's or whoever's home-viewing decisions. Cheers!
Edited by Taranteacher - 10/10/12 at 9:38am
post #148 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by bga84 View Post

Because the none IMAX sequences were shot in anamorphic. To stick to the IMAX ratio or the 1.78:1 BD compromise would mean cropping the sides of the 35mm footage. The IMAX footage was shot with 2.39:1 in mind. The 35mm was not shot with pan and scan in mind.
so your saying in the dark knight back in 08, the imax scenes that were a 1.78.1 were cropped down to 1.78.1 and not original.

either way which ever one is the original aspect ratio, why jump back and four to one aspect ratio to another when one of them is not the original capture ratio ? why cant they film it 100% at 1.78.1 imax or not
Edited by champer - 11/19/12 at 9:35pm
post #149 of 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by champer View Post

so your saying in the dark knight back in 08, the imax scenes that were a 1.78.1 were cropped down to 1.78.1 and not original.
either way which ever one is the original aspect ratio, why jump back and four to one aspect ratio to another when one of them is not the original capture ratio ? why cant they film it 100% at 1.78.1 imax or not

Because the aspect ratio of the IMAX screen is 1.43:1 and the 1.78:1 ratio is the closest to presenting the movie in its full IMAX glory while keeping a cinematic presentation to it. (HDTV generation and digital projector home owners) Yes the scenes were still shot with the Scope 2.40:1 ratio in mind overall because the majority of the viewing audience would be seeing it at a traditional movie theater. The 1.78:1 ratio is harder to switch too in theaters than it is at home depending on the masking system in place at said theater. It would probably look more jarring on the smaller screen too than on a bigger screen like IMAX.


Oh and Brother Bear is another movie that starts in a flat format then shifts into the scope aspect after bear transformation. Plus if the movie trailer is any indication, looks like The Great and Powerful Oz will be doing the same thing
post #150 of 203
so this wont work for scope setups the way dark knight did?
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