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The Subwoofer Recommendation by Pricepoint Thread. - Page 9

post #241 of 289
11/16/12 at 10:32am
I'm not big on getting into arguments and didn't know I was in one.
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post #242 of 289
11/16/12 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm not big on getting into arguments and didn't know I was in one.

You're not at the moment, though posting dislike for SVS with respect to music without also stating a point of reference has lead to some relatively heated discussions/ruffled feathers (not saying you are guilty of this). It makes more more sense in the context of your usage is all.
Edited by Steve1981 - 11/16/12 at 11:05am
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post #243 of 289
1/10/13 at 4:26pm
Thread Starter 
Anyone else care to make a list and have it published in the first post?
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post #244 of 289
1/10/13 at 6:03pm
If I were to choose what subs I would have at those price points, I think I would go with something like:
$100 -Dayton 1200
$200 -BIC F12
$300 -BIC Acoustech Pl-200 (if there is no Klipsch RW-12d deal going on)
$400 -Premier Acoustic PA-150
$500 -Premier Acoustic PA-150
$600 -Hsu VTF2
$700 -Power Sound Audio XS15
$800 -Hsu VTF3
$1,000 -Hsu VTF15h
$1,333 -Rythmik FV15HP
$1,666 -Rythmik FV15HP (gloss black)
$2,000 -JTR Captivator 1000
$2,500 -JTR Captivator 2400
$3,000 and above -Something from Funk Audio in a glossy Piano Black

The $500 point is a tough choice between the Hsu VTF1's variable tuning and Q control and the SVS PB1000's deeper extension and longer warranty, but the Premier Acoustics is still going to have way more output than either, so if I had to choose between them, I go for bigger output. I wouldn't expect the VTF1 or PB1000 to have very good output, but the PA-150 is starting to get to SPLs that I can live with.

Similarly tough choice at $800 between the VTF3 and PSA XV15, where the XV15 has a better warranty and slightly more output, but I had to side with Hsu there because the VTF3 is a proven reliable sub with lots of output, great SQ, nicer appearance, and is also fun to tweak. One sub I am curious about at this price point is the Klipsch SW-115, and a bonus is its street price is purportedly much less than its MSRP. I would want to see measurements on it and also get a better idea of its street price before I would consider it a best value sub though.

I had to go with the Rythmik at 1333 because of what a proven performer it is, but it could be that the PSA XV30 will give that sub a real run for its money at around that price point. I would want to see the measurements on the XV30 first before reconsidering there. I am sure either would be killer. But at 1600 a gloss black FV15HP would be too gorgeous to resist.

At two to three thousand, it becoming a real tossup between JTR, Funk Audio, and Seaton subs. I have to go with JTR very narrowly because I think they would have more output, but above $3k I think the Funk subs would have all the output you could want with the additional advantage of being beautiful, so the less price becomes a factor, the more Funk becomes a viable option.
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post #245 of 289
1/10/13 at 6:11pm
Nice list Shady! I would choose the Cap 2 sealed at 3000 and the Submersive at 2500 but I understand your reasoning, and your right, your really can't go wrong with any of those choices.

I'd love to hear a comparison of the Empire with the new PSA sub at that price point.
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post #246 of 289
1/10/13 at 6:39pm
Thread Starter 
Nice list shadyJ, thanks for participating!

first post updated.


carp, quit piggybacking and make your own complete list wink.gif
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post #247 of 289
1/10/13 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Nice list Shady! I would choose the Cap 2 sealed at 3000 and the Submersive at 2500 but I understand your reasoning, and your right, your really can't go wrong with any of those choices.

I'd love to hear a comparison of the Empire with the new PSA sub at that price point.

Yeah, I would probably swing for the Submersive if the room was medium sized or smaller, but if its in a large room I will take as much output as I can get, not that the Submersive wouldn't have bigtime output. If this list was for a small room, it would look different as I would be willing to sacrifice output for features or aesthetics- after a certain point in output was reached. Also for this list I just used prices plus shipping, and excluded kits and anything other than subs ready to go right out of the box, just to keep it simple.
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post #248 of 289
1/12/13 at 6:18am
Interesting thread. I want to add some decent bass to my PC system. Music only - classical, jazz, classic rock type stuff. I have a pair of Def Tech StudioMonitor 350s I got as a deal on as an open box return. I'm looking for the best (note I did not say "great") music reproduction in an inexpensive COMPACT sub. Here are my considerations:

Pioneer SW-8 - $54
Pioneer SW-8Mk2 - $95
Yamaha YST-SW216 - $105
Omni Mirage S8 - $199

The Omni is the biggest footprint and budget I can manage in my space. Which is the best sub of this group for music? After the best, which is the best vale per dollar?
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post #249 of 289
1/22/13 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If I were to choose what subs I would have at those price points, I think I would go with something like:
$100 -Dayton 1200
$200 -BIC F12
$300 -BIC Acoustech Pl-200 (if there is no Klipsch RW-12d deal going on)
$400 -Premier Acoustic PA-150
$500 -Premier Acoustic PA-150
$600 -Hsu VTF2
$700 -Power Sound Audio XS15
$800 -Hsu VTF3
$1,000 -Hsu VTF15h
$1,333 -Rythmik FV15HP
$1,666 -Rythmik FV15HP (gloss black)
$2,000 -JTR Captivator 1000
$2,500 -JTR Captivator 2400
$3,000 and above -Something from Funk Audio in a glossy Piano Black

The $500 point is a tough choice between the Hsu VTF1's variable tuning and Q control and the SVS PB1000's deeper extension and longer warranty, but the Premier Acoustics is still going to have way more output than either, so if I had to choose between them, I go for bigger output. I wouldn't expect the VTF1 or PB1000 to have very good output, but the PA-150 is starting to get to SPLs that I can live with.

Similarly tough choice at $800 between the VTF3 and PSA XV15, where the XV15 has a better warranty and slightly more output, but I had to side with Hsu there because the VTF3 is a proven reliable sub with lots of output, great SQ, nicer appearance, and is also fun to tweak. One sub I am curious about at this price point is the Klipsch SW-115, and a bonus is its street price is purportedly much less than its MSRP. I would want to see measurements on it and also get a better idea of its street price before I would consider it a best value sub though.

I had to go with the Rythmik at 1333 because of what a proven performer it is, but it could be that the PSA XV30 will give that sub a real run for its money at around that price point. I would want to see the measurements on the XV30 first before reconsidering there. I am sure either would be killer. But at 1600 a gloss black FV15HP would be too gorgeous to resist.

At two to three thousand, it becoming a real tossup between JTR, Funk Audio, and Seaton subs. I have to go with JTR very narrowly because I think they would have more output, but above $3k I think the Funk subs would have all the output you could want with the additional advantage of being beautiful, so the less price becomes a factor, the more Funk becomes a viable option.

The PA-150 can be had for $350 shipped from acoustics sound desin. That said, is the VTF-2 worth the difference of an extra $275? ($550 + $75 shipping). I'm looking for a sub that is a bit better than entry level, which I can keep for a little while. If there is one at $625 and one at $350, the $350 is a lot more enticing if they will be pretty similar in sound quality, but I'm willing to spend the $650 if it's a significant difference (for movies & music, 60/40)
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post #250 of 289
1/22/13 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strumke View Post

The PA-150 can be had for $350 shipped from acoustics sound desin. That said, is the VTF-2 worth the difference of an extra $275? ($550 + $75 shipping). I'm looking for a sub that is a bit better than entry level, which I can keep for a little while. If there is one at $625 and one at $350, the $350 is a lot more enticing if they will be pretty similar in sound quality, but I'm willing to spend the $650 if it's a significant difference (for movies & music, 60/40)

The PA-150 has good upper bass output, decent mid bass output, but not so great deep bass. The VTF2 probably won't match the PA-150's upper bass, but it will certainly exceed it's deep bass. Deep bass is a lot harder to do, so that is not a small feat. The VTF2 also has some other nifty features which the PA-150 lacks. Anyway, whether it is worth it to you depends on how much you want that deep bass. Right now there is a small discount on the VTF2, and shipping is only $67 so it isn't quite as expensive as $650, it is actually under $600 shipped at the moment. Personally, I think it's worth it.
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post #251 of 289
1/22/13 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strumke View Post

The PA-150 can be had for $350 shipped from acoustics sound desin. That said, is the VTF-2 worth the difference of an extra $275? ($550 + $75 shipping). I'm looking for a sub that is a bit better than entry level, which I can keep for a little while. If there is one at $625 and one at $350, the $350 is a lot more enticing if they will be pretty similar in sound quality, but I'm willing to spend the $650 if it's a significant difference (for movies & music, 60/40)

How large is your room? This is something to really consider when buying a sub.

I currently own a PA-150, Hsu VTF-15H, and 4 DIY subs and I can tell you fist hand the PA-150 is an output monster in the 40-80hz range and can pretty much hang with my VTF-15H (which is a $1K shipped sub). Keep in mind, this bass range (40-80hz) is where that mid-bass chest punch resides and where the majority of movie and music tracks contain their LFE. I am not trying to discount the sub 30hz content because it is very much there. So it really comes down to your goals and priorities. With a very large room, you might want to consider dual PA-150's, as multiple subs will give you more output, but they also tame room modes and smooth out bass response. Believe me there are a lot of benefits to mutiple subs in any room, but in a large room I don't think there is any other way to go. It is the reason I went DIY.

Obviously you could add a better sub that would play deeper now (VTF2, PSA 15, Outlaw, etc) and then add a second later. But multiple PA-150's would be something to consider for a large room.
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post #252 of 289
1/22/13 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The PA-150 has good upper bass output, decent mid bass output, but not so great deep bass. The VTF2 probably won't match the PA-150's upper bass, but it will certainly exceed it's deep bass. Deep bass is a lot harder to do, so that is not a small feat. The VTF2 also has some other nifty features which the PA-150 lacks. Anyway, whether it is worth it to you depends on how much you want that deep bass. Right now there is a small discount on the VTF2, and shipping is only $67 so it isn't quite as expensive as $650, it is actually under $600 shipped at the moment. Personally, I think it's worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strumke View Post

The PA-150 can be had for $350 shipped from acoustics sound desin. That said, is the VTF-2 worth the difference of an extra $275? ($550 + $75 shipping). I'm looking for a sub that is a bit better than entry level, which I can keep for a little while. If there is one at $625 and one at $350, the $350 is a lot more enticing if they will be pretty similar in sound quality, but I'm willing to spend the $650 if it's a significant difference (for movies & music, 60/40)
The size of your room will depend a lot on your over all satisfaction of your purchase. A couple of months back there was a publication in one of these forums for most of the subs listed. It gave performance and recommended room size. I would post it... but I can't remember where I saw it. hopefully some one else will repost it.
The size of your room will depend a lot on what you here out of your sub. If you have a lot of square footage A larger sub such as the psa xs15 would also be a good buy, you can pick up a demo unit for $649.00 delivered. in A mid sized room, the vtf2 would be a good buy and you get the advantages of what "ShadyJ" pointed out. And the PA150 would be a great buy at $350.00. IMO
(edit note) Duals as ack_bk points out is also a great way to go.
Edited by ZOOM ZOOM - 1/22/13 at 1:40pm
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post #253 of 289
1/22/13 at 2:45pm
The room is ~20 square with hardwood floors (tongue & groove) & 10' ceilings. The left side (when facing the TV) is mostly open to the kitchen and dining room with an "L" shaped couch dividing the space, so the entire area is ~20x40, but the main listening/watching area is the 18x18 area. (see poor drawing below)

I do need to buy L/R/C speakers as well (not dealing with surround yet), so if there are certain combinations of speakers and sub that complement each other and make more sense, I'm open to hearing that too (trying to keep the L/C/R/Sub capped at ~$1250, but I can go higher if it's worth spending the extra $$). I have a 7.2 receiver (Denon 2312Ci) and I'll probably move in the next 2-3 years, so I can always buy another sub later if the new room is bigger. I'd like to get some speakers worth keeping for a little while though.

_______________40'____________________
|...............................................................|
|...............................................................|
|..........____________................................|
|.........|__Couch___...|................................|
|...........................|..|................................| 20'
|...........................|_|................................|
|...............................................................|
|_________TV_________________________|

......Living room.........|.....Dining/Kitchen (open floor plan)
Edited by strumke - 1/22/13 at 2:54pm
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post #254 of 289
1/22/13 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZOOM ZOOM View Post


The size of your room will depend a lot on your over all satisfaction of your purchase. A couple of months back there was a publication in one of these forums for most of the subs listed. It gave performance and recommended room size. I would post it... but I can't remember where I saw it. hopefully some one else will repost it.
The size of your room will depend a lot on what you here out of your sub. If you have a lot of square footage A larger sub such as the psa xs15 would also be a good buy, you can pick up a demo unit for $649.00 delivered. in A mid sized room, the vtf2 would be a good buy and you get the advantages of what "ShadyJ" pointed out. And the PA150 would be a great buy at $350.00. IMO
(edit note) Duals as ack_bk points out is also a great way to go.

The AUDIOHOLICS forum posts a spreadsheet with various subs recommendations by room size
It can be found at the following URL:

audioholics.com
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post #255 of 289
1/22/13 at 4:31pm
The listening area is not what is important -- it's the total volume. In your case, well, you have a ginormous room at 8000 cu ft (for example, my own living room is only 1600 cu ft, with only a doorway opening to a similar-sized dining / kitchen area). I don't have the ultimate solution for you but I just want you to have realistic expectations. In a room this large it would take multiple very powerful subs for example to reproduce sub-20 Hz effects.
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post #256 of 289
1/22/13 at 5:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strumke View Post

The room is ~20 square with hardwood floors (tongue & groove) & 10' ceilings. The left side (when facing the TV) is mostly open to the kitchen and dining room with an "L" shaped couch dividing the space, so the entire area is ~20x40, but the main listening/watching area is the 18x18 area. (see poor drawing below)

I do need to buy L/R/C speakers as well (not dealing with surround yet), so if there are certain combinations of speakers and sub that complement each other and make more sense, I'm open to hearing that too (trying to keep the L/C/R/Sub capped at ~$1250, but I can go higher if it's worth spending the extra $$). I have a 7.2 receiver (Denon 2312Ci) and I'll probably move in the next 2-3 years, so I can always buy another sub later if the new room is bigger. I'd like to get some speakers worth keeping for a little while though.

_______________40'____________________
|...............................................................|
|...............................................................|
|..........____________................................|
|.........|__Couch___...|................................|
|...........................|..|................................| 20'
|...........................|_|................................|
|...............................................................|
|_________TV_________________________|

......Living room.........|.....Dining/Kitchen (open floor plan)

Wow... With that budget I would get one PA-150 now and then use the rest of your budget on high SPL efficient LCR. Then add another PA-150 later when the budget allows. I would also recommend an area rug as hard surface floors create unwanted reflections and I would also try placing the subwoofer near field (behind or next to the seating position if possible). Nearfield placement will definitely help in that room. Buying a $700+ subwoofer would only leave you about $600 for speakers which is just not enough IMHO unless you went DIY.
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post #257 of 289
1/22/13 at 8:41pm
Hmm, I'm new to the world of premium audio, and I'm learning a lot, but it looks like I still have a long way to go. If I were to fill this space with the recommend amount of woofer, I'd piss off the neighbors (attached row house), and be way over budget.

Given the size of the space that I'm working with, I think I may go with the PA-150, since I'm not going to get the real benefit of a real low Hz woofer. Time to visit the speakers forum to try and fill in the last three pieces (L/C/R) with some good quality speakers. I can always double up PA-150s or upgrade the sub later on.
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post #258 of 289
1/22/13 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by strumke View Post

Hmm, I'm new to the world of premium audio, and I'm learning a lot, but it looks like I still have a long way to go. If I were to fill this space with the recommend amount of woofer, I'd piss off the neighbors (attached row house), and be way over budget.

Given the size of the space that I'm working with, I think I may go with the PA-150, since I'm not going to get the real benefit of a real low Hz woofer. Time to visit the speakers forum to try and fill in the last three pieces (L/C/R) with some good quality speakers. I can always double up PA-150s or upgrade the sub later on.

I think that is a solid plan. For speakers, I would recommend reading through this thread as it references high SPL speakers. With a room that large you want a speaker that is efficient and easy to drive with an inexpensive receiver and can fill a large room with clean undiscovered sound. You have lots of options in your budget range.

Happy hunting and take your time and learn and ask questions. Lots of helpful people around here.

Here is the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1387083/list-of-reference-level-high-sensitivity-spl-speakers
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post #259 of 289
1/22/13 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisG View Post

The AUDIOHOLICS forum posts a spreadsheet with various subs recommendations by room size
It can be found at the following URL:

audioholics.com


Thanks for posting the link to that chart. Very handy for reference.
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post #260 of 289
3/11/13 at 2:17pm
I don't have a list but i think that the Polk Audio PSW-111 should be on every one's list if they have heard it.I had it for a couple of weeks without the intention of keeping it but just checking it out since it was on salefor $230 Canadian.Now i regret returning it since it is no longer available at Future Shop.Excellent little sub with tight bass and a powerful amp.I think it has been discontinued.
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post #261 of 289
3/11/13 at 5:32pm
Interesting...no PSA?

Also..not sure I would put in Epik at this point. HSU would probably get my vote for 800 as well.

I second the DYI exclusion...could be another thread for that... But this is your thread after all tongue.gif

Wouldnt the Seaton Submersive HP tie with the S1? I thought they were neck and neck there?

I think we voted the 300 to Klipsch?

500 to SVS?
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post #262 of 289
3/11/13 at 5:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Interesting...no PSA?

Were they in existence when this thread was started?
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post #263 of 289
3/11/13 at 7:21pm
Last August? Sure...
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post #264 of 289
3/11/13 at 7:48pm
Wonder if they will sticky this thread...I think it deserves it.
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post #265 of 289
3/16/13 at 10:04am
Thread Starter 
I might have to change my stance on SVS price to performance ratio being a bit out of touch - especially as of late - it seems their newer NSD subs are getting great reviews and are priced as low, or lower than the typical competitors.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sb12-nsd-subwoofer


Piano black finish for $679? and a slight discount for a pair? 400rms/800 watt peak amp? Flat FR between 23 and 270hz? That seems like a nice little sealed sub package! I just found myself recommending an SVS sub to a guy who wanted advice on a small sealed sub pair through PM. It's been a while since I've felt the value was there in relation to vendors like PSA, HSU, and Rythmik. Thumbs up to SVS. I'd like to hear one of the newer SVS subs sometime myself.
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post #266 of 289
3/16/13 at 10:20am
I've owned the SB12 and this was the gateway sub for me, leading to much more expensive purchases. I find it was awesome but as it was the first serious sub I've owned it's hard for me to know how it compares. In Canada at least, where other ID subs are hard to get, it sure is worth the money. However it seems like PSA have even more impressive specs for about the same price as the SVS NSD series, albeit not in a package as nice-looking as the piano black SB12.
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post #267 of 289
3/16/13 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

However it seems like PSA have even more impressive specs for about the same price as the SVS NSD series, albeit not in a package as nice-looking as the piano black SB12.

I hate that in a sub. Let's see, which does one pick (Rythmik, SVS or PSA) as at each price point, they're "ALL" screaming good performers. Looks, price, performance; which one to hang a hat or three on? confused.gif

Example, a pair of.....

SVS, SB12-NSD or the PC12-NSD?

Rythmik, F12?

Rythmik, F15?

PSA, XS30 or XV30?

Price range for a pair of the above; $1,150.00 - $1,950.00 which should be well within the ability of most who would be looking at the above class of subwoofers for a subwoofer solution.

-
Edited by BeeMan458 - 3/16/13 at 10:41am
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post #268 of 289
4/23/13 at 5:23pm
A pair of them in a mid size HT room using Telarc's "Jurassic Lunch" track (has info down to 5Hz) using a calibrated iTestMic microphone. The output hit 112 db peaks 2 meters away without audible distortion (as heard by human ears by several of us). Since Paradigm didn't specify the parameters any more specifically (hardly a rigorous lab setup, I know), I was curious to see if I could get close to their claims and it did. You have to admit that's still pretty good considering their size.
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post #269 of 289
4/23/13 at 5:31pm
"You lose some credibility when you start mentioning wires making a difference." You lose a LOT of credibility when you start mentioning wires DON'T making a difference. smile.gif

"And stereo subs really only can work if the subs are located next to or under the mains AND you can find the rare recording that does not sum the bass signal." Off course, that is a given! For your FYI I have thousands of recordings that do NOT sum the bass signal so they are not rare at all. In fact prior to .1 multichannel recording era this was the norm. And it is a great loss to audiophiles since those are superior in capturing the "feel" of the original recording venue. Once you experience a true stereo sub arrangement playing back true stereo subsonic material you won't go back. It is like night and day.
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post #270 of 289
4/23/13 at 6:56pm
OK, I'll be the first to ask; what on earth are you talking about?
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers › The Subwoofer Recommendation by Pricepoint Thread.