Another "entry-level" projector question...

If you look around I believe there are some comparisons that show the motion resolution. Get a laptop and slowly move a notepad document around and you can see how much resolution is lost.

I would think dlp would win out there and they are probably cheaper. My lcos doesn't do so well with motion but it's for movies only so it really doesn't matter so much. I can't see how LCD would be much better.


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Mitsubishi HC3800 will have the best NATIVE motion resolution from your list, however it does not have FI (Frame Interpolation). So, it also depends if you like Frame Interpolation (FI) for Sports. For movies, with FI on, people call this the soap opera look, but some people like it for Sports.

There are some higher-end used 720p projectors, but as far as new, I'd say the Benq w710st is the highest end 720p in your price range. It has an IRIS to get darker blacks, but only a 3x color wheel (so a poor choice in case of RBE sensitivity). I would imagine it would be good at motion, but I've never seen it.

No to the Epson 6100 as it would be near the bottom for motion. Any of the DLP's will be a bit crisper in motion, but the MIts DLP specifically (both hc3800 and hc4000) have reference level native motion for any PJ under $2000 when watching Sports without FI. The Mits hc3800 would be my pick overall from that list. The Mits also does pretty good black levels for movies and is a pretty sharp projector, it also tends to be pretty reliable (one of the most reliable long-term). Easy vote for the Mits. Your small 92" screen is also a perfect match for the MIts (Mits might be a tiny too bright at first, but over the long haul it will work great with that screen size). Just make sure it will fit in your room as it has no lens shift.
Edited by coderguy - 8/19/12 at 7:15pm

If it were me, I'd buy the Mits hc3800 first and give it a shot, it just has an overall better image than the Epson 6100, you can always return the Mits hc3800 if it doesn't work out and then get the Epson. So out of that list and given your viewing requirements, I would still pick the hc3800 and make it work over the others, let me explain why and how... $700 is a heck of a deal for the Mits hc3800, and DLP's on the refurb market almost always have fewer issues than an LCD. There are so many good reasons to choose this projector over the Epson in your situation, even though the Mits is harder to mount.

1) To answer your question about RBE on the Mits hc3800, yes it is always possible someone will see RBE in a MOVIE even with the Mits's faster color wheel (it is 4x speed), but it is VERY unlikely that they would see it enough when viewing Sports to even notice, I would not worry about it. It is really mostly only in dark scenes (like a Harry Potter movie) or scenes where there is a lot of contrast between black and white, or if the wheel was 2x or 3x speed. Also after the lamp wears in, say after 200 hours and as the projector lamp gets darker, the RBE will get less. Given your viewing is 75% sports, I think you have bigger concerns.

2) To answer the issue about mounting, for a 92" screen the minimum mounting position of the lens is 9 1/2 feet back to 14 feet back. Keep in mind this is the position of the LENS (front of projector), so the back of the projector will be another foot or so back because the projector is about a foot long. So that means if you mounted it for a 92" screen at the maximum distance back, then the back of the projector (where the PJ's outlet and HDMI plug are) will actually be pretty close to your requirement. However, there is some MFR tolerance error to that and that number might not be exactly right (see # 3 for an even better solution).

3) I would go with at least a 100" screen at your viewing distance and maybe even 106", as I think 92" is too small of a screen for that viewing distance. If you go with the bigger screen, then you can also mount the projector slightly farther back. For a 100" screen, the max mounting distance is just over 15 feet, which means the back of the PJ where the power and HDMI cable plug in will be right at 16 feet back to exactly match your outlet position.

4) You did not tell me your CEILING HEIGHT, so I do not have all the values to see where you can mount it at. That said, 33" is pretty high up for the bottom of the screen, and I assume you want it this high because of the back row seating area?

5) Although the Mits does not have LENS SHIFT, you can use something called Keystone correction which the Mits hc3800 provides. Normally I wouldn't recommend doing Keystone, but I've seen a lot of old Epsons and some are abundant with convergence problems, I can pretty much guarantee you the Mits hc3800 will still be sharper than the Epson even if you use Keystone vs using lens shift on the Epson 6100 (unless you got super lucky on Convergence with the Epson). Although many will tell you NEVER to use Keystone (Keystone correction allows you to TILT the projector and corrects the trapezoid error), but many people say a lot of things that don't make sense when I think you won't beat this image at $700 even if you use Keystone.

6) Besides lowering your screen closer to the floor or using Keystone, there is YET another mounting option for a DLP. Let's say If you are buying a fixed frame screen (instead of a pulldown), then what you can do is tilt the screen slightly by putting a board behind it and correct any trapezoidal error. This will allow you to then mount the PJ with a lower ceiling and you just TILT the PJ back towards the screen. Since both the screen and the PJ will be slightly tilted, it cancels any geometric error out and works fine.

7) Even if the above two solutions (#5, #6) do not work perfect, you can also use the black border on the screen to absorb some of the mounting error. It is fairly easy to gain an extra 3 to 5 inches or so of vertical mounting height just by doing this, this technique might bother some people though, but generally you cannot really see the error that much in small amounts. My calculator assumes a 100% perfect no-workaround mounting job, but there are ways to get the mounting spot tighter as noted in the above and with this method here. By combining any or all (#5,#6,#7) together, you can actually mount the projector with quite a bit lower of a ceiling than a calculator will tend to show.

8) The above solutions DOES depend just how low your ceiling really is (again I didn't see where you said how high your ceiling is).
Edited by coderguy - 8/20/12 at 2:47am

Keep in mind that the projector needs to be EXACTLY HORIZONTALLY centered to the screen, because Keystone will only correct vertical error (well some PJ's have horizontal keystone, but I wouldn't use it anyhow).

Nothing detrimental to lowering the screen other than the fact you have 2 rows of seating, actually 2 feet or so above the floor is how high most of us with only one row of seating install the screen, but you have two rows. Just make sure the back row of seating is angled and raised up enough to go past the first row of seating.

You need to be careful with the trim because screens are larger than the viewing area., 92" is the viewing area. So check the full frame height/width of whatever screen you are getting and check the amount of border it has around it. That will tell you where to install any trim or whatever.

This projector mounted farther back provides higher contrast, mounted closer up it is a bit brighter (not by a huge amount though). With DLP's I actually prefer them mounted all the way back, and at your screen size it should be plenty bright.

I would probably grab the hc3800 refurb fast though as long as it comes with a decent return policy and a refurb warranty, because they may be gone soon and I don't think any other projector in this price range will compete for your uses.

7 foot is too low for a ceiling, so you will need to use Keystone and tilt the projector towards the screen or if you want to avoid Keystone, then otherwise install a board behind the screen and tilt the screen itself (I doubt you will even notice the Keystone that much, but you don't really need to tilt the screen all that much to get rid of the error). The closest low-profile flush mount for the Mits hc3800 probably leaves 3-4" from the ceiling, but I would post in the Mits hc3800 or Mits hc4000 thread and ask others for mounting ideas,. With your low ceiling, that mean the PJ lens will be about 6 ft 5" from the floor once you account for the PJ thickeness itself. I also have heard of some people getting the PJ within 1 to 2" of the ceiling.

You could cut out a little cubby hole in the ceiling for the PJ and install a FAN above it that blows down over it, that way you could gain a few more inches and have the PJ lens right below the ceiling. Probably more trouble than it is worth just to reduce the amount of keystone being used.

Another option is to floor mount the projector instead, but that doesn't seem to agree with your cabling positions. If it were me, I'd just install the PJ, tilt it, and use keystone. You can always get a different PJ in a few years if you have a higher budget. The problem is in this budget it is very limited choices, and the Mits hc3800 is by far the best choice in the budget range, even if it means using quite a lot of Keystone IMHO.

I owned the Mits hc3800 and hc4000 before. I could only barely tell when using Keystone (really only if reading text from HTPC), I couldn't tell much difference or anything in video with Keystone enabled, don't get me wrong there is a tiny difference, but it's not really visible just for Sports and movies in most cases.
Edited by coderguy - 8/20/12 at 3:47pm

well, since you are building your screen, i would recommend throwing a white sheet on the wall and experiment with different sizes - see what size works best for you. you might find that you can go bigger than you're thinking.

You should be fine, but I cannot say 100% unless I saw the room in person, I saw your plans but it's a tad confusing. There are ways to mount ANY projector only 2" from the ceiling, actually you can get it as close as you want (touching if you want, but I'd be a little worried if it were touching). I remember seeing posts, but I have never done it so I don't know the specific mounting equipment you need to buy, you'd have to look in the forums to find the post, or maybe post a new thread called "Flush mounting the Mits hc3800?"... Or post in the hc3800 and hc4000 threads and ask there, someone knows.

I would try to get it as flush as possible, but I wouldn't even worry if you end up off 1" or a little more, the image will still line up on the screen with only a tiny tiny micro error in the black border of your screen, I doubt you will see the error.

It will be a tight fit, but it should work with a flush mount even without keystone.

The position you mount the projector (closer or farther) does not change the amount of offset, only the screen size changes offset, larger screens have more offset.
Offset is the lens to the top of the screen, but yes if you count the 3" base measurement, then the offset is 18.2" for a 92" screen, officially the offset is 15.2".
Edited by coderguy - 8/21/12 at 5:17pm

The zoom control changes the positioning by changing the size of the image. DLP projectors have the same amount of offset for a GIVEN IMAGE SIZE regardless of positioning because the zoom compensates the image size to match the offset due to the way they are designed. Although if you move the projector without changing the zoom, it changes the offset, but that is only because you are now projecting either a larger or smaller image, and the zoom control is used to re-compensate that.

Huh? You're ceiling mounting your receiver? or do you mean the projector? Just sounds a little weird is all.