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Video Card for WMC7 ?

post #1 of 12
8/20/12 at 12:04am
Thread Starter 
What is a recommended video card when using WMC7?

I understand WMC7 is needed for OTA viewing, & possibly recording. I’m not sure if I have a frame rate problem or not. I’ve been watching some recordings of older TV programs & sometimes see a bit of jerkiness. Maybe this is due to the source being older content or the use of 3:2 pulldown. Or maybe it’s the Intel G620’s integrated graphics. I don’t know.

The GT430 & Radeon 5450 seem to be popular cards. I realize the GT430 is more powerful, but will that make a differences when using WMC7?

Or will the less expensive 5450 provide any benefits when using WMC7?
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post #2 of 12
8/20/12 at 5:24am
Even the most basic (but modern) video card will be fine for 7MC these days. You don't need GB's of vRAM, or zillions of shaders. You're basic requirements should be low power/noise, full H.264/VC1 acceleration and if you need it, bitstreaming over HDMI. That's pretty much it, so a $40 video card would, most of the time, be fine.
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post #3 of 12
8/20/12 at 6:53am
Something else may be wrong here.

What is the source material when you are seeing this jerkiness?

Do you have the latest inteligent management installed?

Try hitting 411 > info on your remote when this is happening and scrolling to the last page and checking your frame rate.

What is the frame rate you have Windows set to? If it is 24p it will cause jerkiness when playing 60i content from a TV source as the frame rate is mis-matched.

With the G620 CPU/iGPU you should not need a video card for live TV playback unless maybe the source content is mis-flagged 29/59 which is a whole separate issue that some video cards even struggle with.

Also, FYI, there's plenty of options for recording OTA TV outside WMC.
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post #4 of 12
8/20/12 at 9:47am
I am not sure the problem is your PC. It could be the content. Did you try playing it on another machine?

If it is fine on another machine- I would double check all your codecs and settings. Do you use Shark007 ?

After that- I would try a cheapo card and see what happens. I use a G630 for my HTPC and it works fine. I doubt your PC is under powered.

For $15 or$20 you can grab a 6450 that might make sense to try for that low cost.

if you really picky upgrade to a bit more Nvidia and try MadVR.

I think in your situation you need to decide how good are you looking for- and what cost will you accept?

I have a $5000 PC, and I can't say the performance is much better than my integrated intel graphics G630+ Asrock Z68 HTPC for $300.

Either I have a really nice performing HTPC, or my tolerance for perfection is flexible.

I think my HTPC is great. Once in a while a certain video might have a small problem- but it's usually the video file and not the player. I tried a few on my desktop and got the same result. Deskop is an i7 with video cards so I am assuming since it's totally a different set up the same problem is in the video.
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post #5 of 12
8/20/12 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

Something else may be wrong here.
What is the source material when you are seeing this jerkiness?
Do you have the latest inteligent management installed?
Try hitting 411 > info on your remote when this is happening and scrolling to the last page and checking your frame rate.
What is the frame rate you have Windows set to? If it is 24p it will cause jerkiness when playing 60i content from a TV source as the frame rate is mis-matched.
With the G620 CPU/iGPU you should not need a video card for live TV playback unless maybe the source content is mis-flagged 29/59 which is a whole separate issue that some video cards even struggle with.
Also, FYI, there's plenty of options for recording OTA TV outside WMC.

What is the intelligent management that you mentioned?

The HDTV is a 720p set so the Intel graphics is set to 1280x720, 59 Hz.

The source was an OTA subchannel which should be 480i.

Using WMC7 > 4-1-1-Info, it is 640x480 mpeg2. The Refresh Rate was 59 & the Frame Rate was pretty much at 59.9401. In one scene it flickered a few times but so fast I could not tell what other rate(s) were being displayed. If I had to guess it would be 29.97.

Using MPC-HC > ctrl+j, the Frame Rate was typically 30.001. But about every 16 seconds the Green video line would decrease & touch the Red line which caused a spike & the rate would then fluctuate a bit, mostly between 29.882 & 29.5xx. The Refresh Rate continuously changes between 59.99xxx and 60.0xxxx.

FWIW if I change Intel graphics to 60 Hz all the above data still looks the same. The HDTV does not have a frame rate setting, & it plays 29.97 video and 30.000 .avi video without any changes. Therefore I'm presuming it's not finicky whether it has 59.94 or 60.000
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post #6 of 12
8/20/12 at 1:22pm
Intel's audio/video drivers are called inteligent management.

This sounds to be the 29/59 bug to me plus 480i content will always look bad on a 720p display.

You just might need a card to play back this content but how often do you view it?
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post #7 of 12
8/20/12 at 1:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

I am not sure the problem is your PC. It could be the content. Did you try playing it on another machine?
If it is fine on another machine- I would double check all your codecs and settings. Do you use Shark007 ?
After that- I would try a cheapo card and see what happens. I use a G630 for my HTPC and it works fine. I doubt your PC is under powered.
For $15 or$20 you can grab a 6450 that might make sense to try for that low cost.
if you really picky upgrade to a bit more Nvidia and try MadVR.
I think in your situation you need to decide how good are you looking for- and what cost will you accept?
I have a $5000 PC, and I can't say the performance is much better than my integrated intel graphics G630+ Asrock Z68 HTPC for $300.
Either I have a really nice performing HTPC, or my tolerance for perfection is flexible.
I think my HTPC is great. Once in a while a certain video might have a small problem- but it's usually the video file and not the player. I tried a few on my desktop and got the same result. Deskop is an i7 with video cards so I am assuming since it's totally a different set up the same problem is in the video.


The slight jerkiness is quite random, or at least it appears to be. I could watch the same program again on the desktop, but the monitor rates are different than the HDTV rates, if that affects anything. I do not use Shark007.

I was watching a different 480i recording from an OTA sub-channel & it had quite a bit of jitter or wiggling of the picture. It’s as if the cameraman could not hold the camera steady. What was strange is that it appeared that not every part or object in the image wiggled at the same time. A picture frame on the wall was moving but it looked like the picture was not. A lamp on a desk was jittering but not the desk. Jitter may not be the proper word to use, but the image was slightly rocking or vibrating about 1 or 2 times per second. It was like different cells in an animation were not moving in synch.

The movie repeated later in the week & I recorded it with my Dish DVR which has the optional OTA tuner connected to the same antenna. Watching this recording verified the whole movie was a bit unsteady. However the picture & frame wiggled in sync, unlike the HTPC recording.

I have no idea why the WMC7 version looked different. It could be an illusion, but I noticed it in many scenes throughout the movie. If there was motion or panning I did not notice any irregularities. The only thing I can think of is if there was a sharp contrast edge in the image & maybe WMC7 or the Intel graphics could not handle this properly. Or maybe it was a de-interlacing problem. I honestly have no idea. But it makes me question that something in the HTPC could be better.
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post #8 of 12
8/22/12 at 11:40pm
Thread Starter 
I’ve been watching some newer HD programs recorded & played back with WMC7 and they seem OK, so the problem must be with the older content.
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post #9 of 12
8/23/12 at 9:50am
Might want to try an ATI 6450 because it sounds like it's a de-interlacing problem. I found one new on Ebay recently for $35. The 5450 is a good card but can't use all of the de-interlacing settings depending on which boxes you have checked in the driver settings.
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post #10 of 12
8/23/12 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by blushrts View Post

Might want to try an ATI 6450 because it sounds like it's a de-interlacing problem. I found one new on Ebay recently for $35. The 5450 is a good card but can't use all of the de-interlacing settings depending on which boxes you have checked in the driver settings.

I have a brand new 6450 in box... would sell for $20
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post #11 of 12
8/24/12 at 12:43am
Thread Starter 
I'm still trying to get a handle on things & to understand at least what affects the frame rates.

I started another thread "Frame Rate - WMC vs MPC-HC ". I get slightly different results with these 2 programs. However this is with HD OTA material which I don't see any problems with when actually the programs. Maybe there is a slight glitch every so often but I don't notice it. So for all newer programming it appears I do not need a video card.

It's just a couple older shows that have a glitch now & then. I going to record a few of them with my Dish DVR's OTA tuner & see if I notice any problems. If I do then I'll have to presume it is the source. I'll let you know.
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post #12 of 12
8/24/12 at 2:50am
If you dont pick up a very cheap 6450, like maybe mfusick's, take a look at 6570's. I'm fine with the IGP in my HTPC, but I picked up one of those 2560x1440 Korean monitors for the desktop computer which it's IGP wont drive. I intended to grab a cheap 6450 or 520 for that machine, but ran across a passive 6570 for literally only a few dollars more then those cards at the local Microcenter. While no high end card still, those are significantly more powerfull then the 6450/520 level cards.
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