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Cloud Atlas - Page 6

post #151 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

Choose to be offended, choose to be a victim. Unless you are specifically targeted, then taking offense is often a choice. I'll certainly agree that some past casting decisions have been incredibly wrong. I don't think that was the case with this movie. On the other hand, insisting that only actors of a specific race play that race is, IMO, racist. The producers of this movie did not make a conscious choice to offend or target anyone unless you're talking about white slavers, white corporate execs or white, ignorant post apocolyptic survivors. The producers chose to creatively use the cast in a wide variety of roles in order to try and convey their concept of the interplay of souls over time and in doing so they ignored the race of the actors in favor of intermixing them in a variety of ethnic roles.

Their intent is irelevant. The fact that they thought giving white people fake foreheads and eyelids to make them look asian is beyond stupid. It just shows how tone def they are. Do a quick search on Google and see how many articles and Asian groups called out this movie. Just because it does not make your 6 oclock news does not mean there is no outrage
post #152 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

as a white man it may be easy for you to say tough shet. Since you never walked in the shoes of a minority EVEN ONE FRICKEN DAY.
Lets keep the focus on Mexicans for a moment since I (not gwsat) uttered the phrase "tough $#!t" about non-Mexicans playing a role of Mexican in movies. sog35, do you know who this man is below?

guillermo-del-toro.jpg

What about this woman?
anahi.jpg

Lets see your answer before I go any further.
post #153 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Their intent is irelevant. The fact that they thought giving white people fake foreheads and eyelids to make them look asian is beyond stupid. It just shows how tone def they are. Do a quick search on Google and see how many articles and Asian groups called out this movie. Just because it does not make your 6 oclock news does not mean there is no outrage

By groups you mean manaa right?

The simple fact that you have Doona Bae as an american girl, Halle Berry as a german, white, woman, Keith David as an asian in Neo-Seo... wait....a black man as an asian?!??!!? This is getting out of control!!!!!....

Their intent IS relevant.

.....sigh .... These simple facts CLEARLY reveal the filmmakers' intentions, which is more than relevant given the film's subject. Going beyond boundaries, beyond the differences, transcending them. But you're accusing them of racism while in fact, all they did was the contrary. Had the makeup been convincing you'd have be ok with it? Are you offended by Doonae Bae's white girl makeup? Redhead, green eyes... more stereotypes! rolleyes.gif
post #154 of 301
Jeez, this **** still going on?
post #155 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by darthrsg View Post

Jeez, this **** still going on?

Ugh, yeah really.



"Rose is fine! Moving on!
post #156 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

as a white man it may be easy for you to say tough shet. Since you never walked in the shoes of a minority EVEN ONE FRICKEN DAY.

You, obviously, don't live in Los Angles... wink.gif
post #157 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

By groups you mean manaa right?

The simple fact that you have Doona Bae as an american girl, Halle Berry as a german, white, woman, Keith David as an asian in Neo-Seo... wait....a black man as an asian?!??!!? This is getting out of control!!!!!....

Their intent IS relevant.

.....sigh .... These simple facts CLEARLY reveal the filmmakers' intentions, which is more than relevant given the film's subject. Going beyond boundaries, beyond the differences, transcending them. But you're accusing them of racism while in fact, all they did was the contrary. Had the makeup been convincing you'd have be ok with it? Are you offended by Doonae Bae's white girl makeup? Redhead, green eyes... more stereotypes! rolleyes.gif

Problem is white people did not have to face the rampant racism in America like blacks, hispanics, and asians. There would be no reason why a white person would be offended if a black/asian person wore makeup to look white. Hell, the current trend already encourages this ( hair dye, color contacts, nose jobs).

As far as the other races, I can't answer to that. You need to ask a black person that not me.

Bottom line is Hollywood has a shameful history of casting white people to play asian/black characters. Its called Blackface and Yellowface. They would give them ridiculous makeup and prostetics. I dont see how this movie is any different. The fake eyes and foreheads for the white actors were just aweful. How much more racist can you get then give a white person slant eyes to make them asian? Would you show up looking like that at a party in Chinatown? Hell no. You know you would get your AZZ kicked if you tried a stunt like that.

Again I ask you what would happen if a white actor was 'transformed' into a black person? What if they painted his face black, gave him a huge nose, and huge lips? They would be crucified. And guess what? The directors were smart enough NOT to try this. Yet they turn around and do the EXACT same thing for an asian character. If they were not willing to do it for a black character they should have had the sensability to avoid doing for an asian character.
post #158 of 301
To me the Hugo weaving 'asian' is just as offensive and ridiculous looking as Blackface from the bigot days of america.



post #159 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

Lets keep the focus on Mexicans for a moment since I (not gwsat) uttered the phrase "tough $#!t" about non-Mexicans playing a role of Mexican in movies. sog35, do you know who this man is below?

guillermo-del-toro.jpg

What about this woman?
anahi.jpg

Lets see your answer before I go any further.

dont know who they are. director and actress?
post #160 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

dont know who they are. director and actress?
He is Guillermo del Toro, a director. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0868219/?ref_=sr_1
She is Anahi, a singer. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0025584/?ref_=sr_1
They are both Mexicans.

So you have a problem with me saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who get offended by non-Mexican actors like Heston and Wallach playing Mexican character?
post #161 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

There would be no reason why a white person would be offended if a black/asian person wore makeup to look white. Hell, the current trend already encourages this ( hair dye, color contacts, nose jobs).
How do you know?
Quote:
As far as the other races, I can't answer to that. You need to ask a black person that not me.
Sounded like you can. See above.
Quote:
Bottom line is Hollywood has a shameful history of casting white people to play asian/black characters. Its called Blackface and Yellowface. They would give them ridiculous makeup and prostetics. I dont see how this movie is any different. The fake eyes and foreheads for the white actors were just aweful. How much more racist can you get then give a white person slant eyes to make them asian? Would you show up looking like that at a party in Chinatown? Hell no. You know you would get your AZZ kicked if you tried a stunt like that.
Sounds like you are having a difficult time separating the real world and movie.
Quote:
Again I ask you what would happen if a white actor was 'transformed' into a black person?
Not much happened all these years. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425507/cloud-atlas/120#post_23434396
Quote:
gave him a huge nose, and huge lips?
Is that the image you have of black people? I personally know plenty of black people who do not fit into such description. I think you should stop digging yourself a hole any deeper on this forum.

Also, you should apologize to gwsat for accusing him of posting something he didn't (see below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

as a white man it may be easy for you to say tough shet. Since you never walked in the shoes of a minority EVEN ONE FRICKEN DAY.
post #162 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Do a quick search on Google and see how many articles and Asian groups called out this movie.
I did and this came up at the top. http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Accusing-Cloud-Atlas-Racism-Missing-Point-33781.html

This movie shows what is supposed to be Seoul, Korea in 131 years in the future and calls it "Neo Seoul". Presently, South Koreans and Japanese average height is considerably taller than it was 131 years ago due to introduction of westernized diet (more protein & calcium) since WW 2. There are some Japanese and Koreans in the mainland with foreign race mix. In 131 years from now, that's over 5 generations, it's not far fetched idea to think that there may be more mixed races among Koreans living in future Seoul. It's possible that in the future they became an economic / technological epicenter and attracted a lots of foreign investments and workforce which would lend itself to more interactions with "outsiders" and the physiological change from the traditional average may have taken place, thus many of them may not look the way they do now, just as their average height has changed in 60 years.

Like I said earlier, you need to relax, sog35.
post #163 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

What if they painted his face black, gave him a huge nose, and huge lips? They would be crucified.

You may want to do a little soul searching on this one sog. You may not like what you find.

I say this without judgement. Not that it matters, this thread will obviously be shut down soon.
post #164 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

It's possible that in the future they became an economic / technological epicenter and attracted a lots of foreign investments and workforce which would lend itself to more interactions with "outsiders" and the physiological change from the traditional average may have taken place, thus many of them may not look the way they do now, just as their average height has changed in 60 years.

+100! ...Hopefully we can go back to the movie from now on.... smile.gif
post #165 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

You may want to do a little soul searching on this one sog. You may not like what you find.

I say this without judgement. Not that it matters, this thread will obviously be shut down soon.

Soul searching? That's how hollywood did Blackface in the past. I did not make that up. I'm just stating facts. I'm saying the Yellowface in Cloud Atlas is just as ridiculous as the Blackface from decades ago that would never be accepted today.

Below is a yellowface from the classic movie Breakfast at Tiffany's. Do you think that would be okay today? Hell no. Yet cloud Atlas does the exact same thing.

Maybe I used the wrong word: racist. Maybe that's too strong since that is hateful. I'll say the directors were racially insensitive.

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v62), quality = 90

Tell me what is the difference between the yellow face in Breakfast at Tiffany's and Cloud Atlas? Breakfast at Tiffany's is almost universally accepted as racist by Asian/American groups:

#2 Most racist movie
http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2012/05/the-50-most-racist-movies/breakfast-at-tiffanys

Protest in NYC
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/07/breakfast_at_tiffanys_racist.php

"It just made me cringe," says actress Marilyn Tokuda, one of a handful of film and media pros interviewed in the documentary.
http://movieline.com/2011/09/22/breakfast-at-tiffanys-at-50-we-need-to-talk-about-mr-yunioshi/

Council of Asian Pacific Islanders Together for Advocacy and Leadership, an umbrella group for more than 90 local organizations, recently told the Sacramento City Council that Rooney's buck-toothed Japanese character with thick glasses and exaggerated Asian accent perpetuated "offensive, derogatory and hateful racial stereotypes detrimental and destructive to our society."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700256494/Mickey-Rooney-upset-at-racism-allegations.html?pg=all

But unfortunately, you also have Rooney’s racist portrayal of clownish Japanese landlord Mr. Yunioshi. Rooney embraces just about every stereotype imaginable, but even without that, his low-brow antics would still feel out of place in an otherwise classy film. Director Blake Edwards later acknowledged the character was a mistake
http://www.asianweek.com/top-25-yellow-face-performance-5to2/

Edwards said, “Looking back, I wish I had never done it … and I would give anything to be able to recast it, but it’s there.”

“Perhaps, as a comedy director, Mr. Edwards couldn’t resist adding an over-the-top twist to Yunioshi, but there’s no excuse for his framing Yunioshi in such a blatantly racist manner. Comedy is not an excuse for racism,” Fa said.

http://www.rafu.com/2010/12/blake-edwards-will-be-remembered-for-%E2%80%98breakfast-at-tiffany%E2%80%99s%E2%80%99-character/

And what makes Cloud Atlas even WORSE than Breakfast is that it was not a comedy. Yet the yellowface was just as horrible. What makes it worse was when Breakfast was made there were not many Asian actors that could be cast. But today they are dozens of excellent actors who are Asian/part asian that could easily fill the role.
Edited by sog35 - 6/18/13 at 6:18am
post #166 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

He is Guillermo del Toro, a director. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0868219/?ref_=sr_1
She is Anahi, a singer. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0025584/?ref_=sr_1
They are both Mexicans.

So you have a problem with me saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who get offended by non-Mexican actors like Heston and Wallach playing Mexican character?

i still dont get your point.
post #167 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

I did and this came up at the top. http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Why-Accusing-Cloud-Atlas-Racism-Missing-Point-33781.html

This movie shows what is supposed to be Seoul, Korea in 131 years in the future and calls it "Neo Seoul". Presently, South Koreans and Japanese average height is considerably taller than it was 131 years ago due to introduction of westernized diet (more protein & calcium) since WW 2. There are some Japanese and Koreans in the mainland with foreign race mix. In 131 years from now, that's over 5 generations, it's not far fetched idea to think that there may be more mixed races among Koreans living in future Seoul. It's possible that in the future they became an economic / technological epicenter and attracted a lots of foreign investments and workforce which would lend itself to more interactions with "outsiders" and the physiological change from the traditional average may have taken place, thus many of them may not look the way they do now, just as their average height has changed in 60 years.

Like I said earlier, you need to relax, sog35.

Thats bull right there. You think anyone watching the movie would think that? LOL. All they are thinking is these dudes suppose to be Asian even though they look more like Aliens with exaggerated Asian features.
post #168 of 301
Thread Starter 
As usual with forum discussions, there is no way anyone will see someones point or concede their stance. One can clearly make an argument and the counter to that argument in no way acknoledges any points made. Best to abandon, as is usual there will be no middle ground found.
post #169 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

As usual with forum discussions, there is no way anyone will see someones point or concede their stance. One can clearly make an argument and the counter to that argument in no way acknoledges any points made. Best to abandon, as is usual there will be no middle ground found.

People were saying the same thing about slavery 200 years ago. People can take a side in an argument but it does not mean they are right.
post #170 of 301
This whole discussion is kinda moot anyway. People can choose to focus on actors changing race and playing other parts via makeup, or not. But having the same actors portray multiple characters in multiple times was a basic and essential plot device in Cloud Atlas IMHO. If they had cast multiple actors in these roles, or if they had not restrained the makeup artists to just enough alterations to make the race recognizable while letting you recognize the actor underneath the makeup, then an essential plot point would be missing.

I haven't read the book or even the entire discussion in this thread, but I think the plot point involved is a comment about recycled souls and reincarnation. If reincarnation is real and the whole point is that each incarnation of each soul has the purpose of further molding the personality (a central plot point in both Dante's Inferno and the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld books), then NOT changing the actor's race would have eliminated this entire element of plot.
post #171 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary McCoy View Post

This whole discussion is kinda moot anyway. People can choose to focus on actors changing race and playing other parts via makeup, or not. But having the same actors portray multiple characters in multiple times was a basic and essential plot device in Cloud Atlas IMHO. If they had cast multiple actors in these roles, or if they had not restrained the makeup artists to just enough alterations to make the race recognizable while letting you recognize the actor underneath the makeup, then an essential plot point would be missing.

I haven't read the book or even the entire discussion in this thread, but I think the plot point involved is a comment about recycled souls and reincarnation. If reincarnation is real and the whole point is that each incarnation of each soul has the purpose of further molding the personality (a central plot point in both Dante's Inferno and the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld books), then NOT changing the actor's race would have eliminated this entire element of plot.

There was ZERO reason for changing the persons race. ZERO. See the movie the Fountain. There were times that I did not even know it was the same actor/actress because of the horrible makeup/prosetics. That just further weakened the point of reincarnation. To me at best it was a gimmick and at worst racially insensitive.
post #172 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

There was ZERO reason for changing the persons race. ZERO.

Have you read the book?
post #173 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

Have you read the book?

somethings in books just dont work in movies.
again look at The Fountain. There is no reason to change race, its a gimmick.
post #174 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

i still dont get your point.
I asked you a simple question, do you have a problem with me saying "tough $#!t" to those (if any) who get offended by non-Mexican actors like Heston and Wallach playing Mexican character? Yes or no?
post #175 of 301
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

People were saying the same thing about slavery 200 years ago. People can take a side in an argument but it does not mean they are right.

Seems you just called me a bigot because I disagreed with you. Poor form. Poor form.
post #176 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

somethings in books just dont work in movies.
again look at The Fountain. There is no reason to change race, its a gimmick.

Yeah I know The Fountain very well it's one of my favorite films. But it's a different story, a different base material... It takes more than a birthmark to connect all the dots in Cloud Atlas...

...Still same question though, have you read the book?
post #177 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Thats bull right there.
That's your opinion.
Quote:
You think anyone watching the movie would think that? LOL.
That's your opinion. Have you taken a poll? Something tells me that you haven't.
Quote:
All they are thinking is these dudes suppose to be Asian even though they look more like Aliens with exaggerated Asian features.
That's your opinion. Just because you and some others think something is certain way, does not make it so. Heck, many years ago not just some but most people thought the earth is flat.

sog35, I still haven't seen it so I'll ask, when will you apologize to gwsat for accusing him of posting something he didn't?
post #178 of 301
sog35, have you ever been to Seoul?
post #179 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybobg View Post

Seems you just called me a bigot because I disagreed with you. Poor form. Poor form.

I never said anyone was a bigot. I'm just saying that just because some takes a side it does not mean he is correct.
post #180 of 301
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcruiser View Post

That's your opinion.
That's your opinion. Have you taken a poll? Something tells me that you haven't.
That's your opinion. Just because you and some others think something is certain way, does not make it so. Heck, many years ago not just some but most people thought the earth is flat.

sog35, I still haven't seen it so I'll ask, when will you apologize to gwsat for accusing him of posting something he didn't?

Its not only my opinon but the opinion of many Asian/American groups.

Again tell me the difference between the YellowFace used in Breakfast at Tiffany's (which has been almost universally criticized by Asian/American groups) and the YellowFace in Cloud Atlas.
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