AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › first attempt at building a sub
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

first attempt at building a sub

post #1 of 161
8/23/12 at 5:44am
Thread Starter 
I know there is a master index of some builds that people have done in the past, but some of them are really just pics and whatnot of the build without any kind of specs as far as dimensions and what not (unless I looked at all of the wrong ones lol). Does anyone have a link to a good performing sealed sub that I would be able to find all the dimensions needed to build a sub along with the components that would be needed?

To start things off right now I am in the middle of trying to refinish my basement since a flood and am trying to get this done over the next couple months or so. I will attach a drawing of the room, but from my calculation I am going to be at ~ 2500 cubic feet. I would like to stay in the $1,000 arena, could go over a bit but would like not to.

Also, I am not sure if I should build one really good sub, or go with like two $500 subs so I can co-locate them in the room. Sorry for the noobish inquiry, but I have never attempted anything like this before and TBH I am really not even sure where to start. Any help would be greatly appreciate.

Thanks
Ed room sketch.pdf 60k .pdf file
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 161
8/23/12 at 9:44am
is it $1000.00 for all materials, wood, drivers, wires, amplifiers, everything?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 161
8/23/12 at 9:48am

Can you fill in your screen and seating positions(if applicable) on the drawring....

 

If it works aesthetically that utility room might serve you well for Infinite baffle subs.  The easiest subs to build too.  However entirely depends on room config. so need to know that.

Reply
Reply
post #4 of 161
8/23/12 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

is it $1000.00 for all materials, wood, drivers, wires, amplifiers, everything?

The 1K would be for everything needed including wood, wires, drivers, etc.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 161
8/23/12 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Can you fill in your screen and seating positions(if applicable) on the drawring....

If it works aesthetically that utility room might serve you well for Infinite baffle subs.  The easiest subs to build too.  However entirely depends on room config. so need to know that.

Here is a quick mock up of how I think the best orientation would be. I am open to suggestions, so any insight would be appreciated. One thing to keep in mind is this is not a dedicated sealed space space...as I am sure you can tell. Not sure if it really makes a difference or not, but this will not have a projector...yet. Right now I will be using my Panny TC-P50G25 for my viewing pleasures.

room sketch 8-23-12.pdf 73k .pdf file
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 161
8/23/12 at 10:42am

Ok, so utility room is not sealed, forget I.B.  I would recommend as many decent quality subs as you can afford.  Possibly lower cost and higher number would benefit you.  Figure into your cost EQ.  Youll likely need some sort of signal shaping/control(EQ).  Most generic recommendations are to keep the majority of the subs up front of the listener.  It looks a little cramped up there so consider that.....  Since the utility room is for all subsonic intents and purposes part of the Game area looks like your area is close to 20x20(square) which means youll have some serious room modes to deal with.  I actually like the long rectangle dimensions of the room better if you could switch the game area over to the small side.  If not maybe move TV and speakers away from front wall and spread the subs across front wall.

 

For current room config I would make the following recommendations.

  • EQ mandatory
  • Multiple subs mandatory
  • Subs up front, is there room up there?
  • 7' is close to screen, what size screen?  Maybe move whole config back 2-3' and make room for subs
  • Second row seating is dead center of room(null), maybe move back 2' or so and get out of center of room.

 

We Need Pics!(stomps feet) biggrin.gif

Reply
Reply
post #7 of 161
8/23/12 at 11:01am
well off the bat your looking at:

120.00 for eq/hpf (i suggest minidsp)
80.00 for wood (3/4" mdf, 2 sub boxes)
20.00 for glue, screws, sandpaper
15.00 for paint/stain/whatever
10.00 for sealer
30-50bucks for 50-100 ft of 12 awg speaker wire from monoprice
are you just going to paint the MDF or are you going to put a veneer?
if you want to make grills, 10-30 bucks for fabric.
if you want feet, 5-10 bucks per sub.

Then you could get a Behringer EP4000, best amp for the price/power ratio. It's about 350 bucks, you could drive 2 boxes off it, it does 800 wpc at 4 ohms. 500 wpc at 8 ohms.

So you could do 2 sub boxes, 2 drivers in each. So you have basically 400.00 bucks for 4 drivers. So look at $100 ish drivers.
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 161
8/23/12 at 11:45am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Ok, so utility room is not sealed, forget I.B.  I would recommend as many decent quality subs as you can afford.  Possibly lower cost and higher number would benefit you.  Figure into your cost EQ.  Youll likely need some sort of signal shaping/control(EQ).  Most generic recommendations are to keep the majority of the subs up front of the listener.  It looks a little cramped up there so consider that.....  Since the utility room is for all subsonic intents and purposes part of the Game area looks like your area is close to 20x20(square) which means youll have some serious room modes to deal with.  I actually like the long rectangle dimensions of the room better if you could switch the game area over to the small side.  If not maybe move TV and speakers away from front wall and spread the subs across front wall.

For current room config I would make the following recommendations.
  • EQ mandatory
  • Multiple subs mandatory
  • Subs up front, is there room up there?
  • 7' is close to screen, what size screen?  Maybe move whole config back 2-3' and make room for subs
  • Second row seating is dead center of room(null), maybe move back 2' or so and get out of center of room.

We Need Pics!(stomps feet) biggrin.gif

Yeah, I kind of figured with the back room being not sealed would eliminate the IB. Basically the list of stuff you suggest is what I figured I would need. I am still new to all of this tweaking stuff and will have to do some reading on it. Right now as it stands here is my equipment list.

Panny 50" plasma (G25)
Onkyo TX-NR1008 (9.2)
PS3 for games and BD's
Xbox 360
Motorola FIOS cable box
(2) eD[c]12 for front left and right (need to try and find another for the center but at this point don't think that will happen with the state of eD right now)
Boston MCS100 satellite speakers for surrounds and heights (I know in the basement these will be too small). I planned on getting some eD[c]6 speakers for surrounds, but again probably not going to happen. Maybe some CHT or possibly Klipsch (IF I HAVE TO).

I do not really have pics of the actual room right now as it is really just a mess and filled with crap. Hopefully once I start the build I will start taking shots of progress and what not. Also, the subs that I plan on building I was hoping to use as stands for my eD speakers (unless that is not a good way of doing it), so optimally I would like to have the subs around 22" high that way with the eD's on there that would put the tweeter at about 42" (my ear height when sitting).
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 161
8/23/12 at 11:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

well off the bat your looking at:
120.00 for eq/hpf (i suggest minidsp)
80.00 for wood (3/4" mdf, 2 sub boxes)
20.00 for glue, screws, sandpaper
15.00 for paint/stain/whatever
10.00 for sealer
30-50bucks for 50-100 ft of 12 awg speaker wire from monoprice
are you just going to paint the MDF or are you going to put a veneer?
if you want to make grills, 10-30 bucks for fabric.
if you want feet, 5-10 bucks per sub.
Then you could get a Behringer EP4000, best amp for the price/power ratio. It's about 350 bucks, you could drive 2 boxes off it, it does 800 wpc at 4 ohms. 500 wpc at 8 ohms.
So you could do 2 sub boxes, 2 drivers in each. So you have basically 400.00 bucks for 4 drivers. So look at $100 ish drivers.

I really appreciate the list Boss. So basically I would be looking at about ~ 150 for supplies, 120 for a eq/hpf, 350 for the amp and ~ 400 for subs. I have been looking but am getting lost, but would you know where I could look to find a build for this. Also, what subs would you suggest using for this. If there is just a link to could point me to that would be appreciated.

Is this the MiniDSP you are referring to.

http://www.minidsp.com/
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 161
8/23/12 at 12:01pm

With your budget you could save a few bucks and go with the behringer dsp amps and skip the outboard EQ.  Those amps have EQ built in and its pretty intuitive to use if your just starting out.

 

I wouldn't bother with woofers that cost less than $150.  I would also focus on ported for the size room and configuration your working with.

 

For Multiples in your budget I like these woofers:

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-190

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-469

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-420

 

In your budget I like these amps:

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6706

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-6710

 

 

I'd have to model to see what gives the most output for your dollars, but you need to decide on maximum sub box size you can accomodate and that dictates your choices from here on......

Reply
Reply
post #11 of 161
8/23/12 at 12:32pm
Actually yeah, what Nicks said about the DSP, go with one of the iNukes for DSP it'll be cheaper. But not as customizable.
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 161
8/23/12 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I really appreciate the list Boss. So basically I would be looking at about ~ 150 for supplies, 120 for a eq/hpf, 350 for the amp and ~ 400 for subs. I have been looking but am getting lost, but would you know where I could look to find a build for this. Also, what subs would you suggest using for this. If there is just a link to could point me to that would be appreciated.
Is this the MiniDSP you are referring to.
http://www.minidsp.com/

That is the miniDSP I was referring to yes. You could get one of the behringer inuke3k or inuke6k that has built in DSP, it will be a bit cheaper so you can put more towards subs. The drivers nicks linked above are all good. For a build, you could play around with winISD, or ask someone to model which drivers you want for you.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 161
8/23/12 at 12:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

That is the miniDSP I was referring to yes. You could get one of the behringer inuke3k or inuke6k that has built in DSP, it will be a bit cheaper so you can put more towards subs. The drivers nicks linked above are all good. For a build, you could play around with winISD, or ask someone to model which drivers you want for you.

OK, I will have to look into those. Damn, you know someone is a noob at this when have no clue what you mean by playing with winISD...not sure what that even is. I am guessing maybe some type of program to come up with blueprints for making the box. Man, I did not think it would get to this, but I want to figure it out so I will be reading as much as I can to try and make sense out of this.

I basically thought someone would have plans they could send me with the parts I should use and go to town on it. guess it is better this way for the learning experience, but I would hate to get something constructed and have it sound like crap.
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:16pm
Smigro,

Nicks last sentence is very important to move forward, "but you need to decide on maximum sub box size you can accomodate and that dictates your choices from here on......".

Most importantly though, have fun and enjoy the fruits of your labor. DIY pays back big time! Have trust, it won't sound like crap. With what Nick is suggesting above, these will blow your socks off! biggrin.gif

-Nate
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:20pm
Thread Starter 
So lets see if I remember this right from my sub woofer days dealing with cars (over 12 years ago). I would run the voice coils in parallel to get an 4 ohm load per speaker and then run the two speakers in series back to the amp to get a 4 ohm load. This is assuming two speakers per box and two boxes hooked up to one amp. Is that right? Something does not sound right there, but again it has been years since I have fiddled with this stuff.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

OK, I will have to look into those. Damn, you know someone is a noob at this when have no clue what you mean by playing with winISD...not sure what that even is. I am guessing maybe some type of program to come up with blueprints for making the box. Man, I did not think it would get to this, but I want to figure it out so I will be reading as much as I can to try and make sense out of this.
I basically thought someone would have plans they could send me with the parts I should use and go to town on it. guess it is better this way for the learning experience, but I would hate to get something constructed and have it sound like crap.

Winisd is a program that will model frequency response of given drivers in a box of a certain volume. There's a good tutorial on it here http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/6330-winisd-pro-tutorial-download-detailed-guide-how-use-winisd-pro.html . The only things that affect a design really are the volume of the box, and if it is ported or sealed. If it is ported, the length of the port affects the frequency curve.
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

So lets see if I remember this right from my sub woofer days dealing with cars (over 12 years ago). I would run the voice coils in parallel to get an 4 ohm load per speaker and then run the two speakers in series back to the amp to get a 4 ohm load. This is assuming two speakers per box and two boxes hooked up to one amp. Is that right? Something does not sound right there, but again it has been years since I have fiddled with this stuff.

If you have 2 vc, 2 ohms, you would wire them in series to give you 4 ohm per driver. 2 drivers per box would wire together in series for 8 ohms per box, so the amp would be 8 ohm stereo. or you could do 1 driver per box and just run it in 4 ohm stereo. Or you could wire each driver's vc's in series giving 4 ohms per speaker, then wire the speakers in parallel, giving each subwoofer box a 2 ohm load, and run the amplifier in 2 ohm stereo. I'm not sure what would be best, im sure someone else would. Or you could make them 2 ohm per box, and wire the two boxes in series and power it with a 4 ohm bridged mono mode.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotbunny View Post

Smigro,
Nicks last sentence is very important to move forward, "but you need to decide on maximum sub box size you can accomodate and that dictates your choices from here on......".
Most importantly though, have fun and enjoy the fruits of your labor. DIY pays back big time! Have trust, it won't sound like crap. With what Nick is suggesting above, these will blow your socks off! biggrin.gif
-Nate

I hear you. I guess I would like to keep it as compact as possible, but from what I gather ported subs need to be big to get loud and sealed boxes needs gobs of power. I do not want a behemoth of a box, so I would guess my absolute max size would be about the size of something like a Submersive or Captivator, but if I could get something that is around the size of Epik Empire that would be cool too.

I am just so new to trying to do anything DIY that really have not even a clue where to start. At least I have some ideas about the components, but it seems to real hard part is figuring out and building the enclosure.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I hear you. I guess I would like to keep it as compact as possible, but from what I gather ported subs need to be big to get loud and sealed boxes needs gobs of power. I do not want a behemoth of a box, so I would guess my absolute max size would be about the size of something like a Submersive or Captivator, but if I could get something that is around the size of Epik Empire that would be cool too.
I am just so new to trying to do anything DIY that really have not even a clue where to start. At least I have some ideas about the components, but it seems to real hard part is figuring out and building the enclosure.
Just go with sealed then. They're easier to build and model. And they're smaller.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

If you have 2 vc, 2 ohms, you would wire them in series to give you 4 ohm per driver. 2 drivers per box would wire together in series for 8 ohms per box, so the amp would be 8 ohm stereo. or you could do 1 driver per box and just run it in 4 ohm stereo. Or you could wire each driver's vc's in series giving 4 ohms per speaker, then wire the speakers in parallel, giving each subwoofer box a 2 ohm load, and run the amplifier in 2 ohm stereo. I'm not sure what would be best, im sure someone else would. Or you could make them 2 ohm per box, and wire the two boxes in series and power it with a 4 ohm bridged mono mode.

I think I got you now. In reality that is the least of my worries as I can figure that out when the wiring comes into play. Right now I think I need to focus on what kind of box I am going to build and how to go about building it the right way.
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

Just go with sealed then. They're easier to build and model. And they're smaller.

That is what I was thinking...especially if I get the second amp that Nick linked. Seems like that would definitely have enough power for a sealed configuration, plus I do not know if I would trust myself to do a ported box and do it the right way.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:53pm
In WinISD, two Dayton RSS390HO-4's sealed in 2.5 cu.ft. each, highpassed at ~18Hz with 1000W input power will get you around ~105db@20Hz before any room gains.
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 161
8/23/12 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

That is what I was thinking...especially if I get the second amp that Nick linked. Seems like that would definitely have enough power for a sealed configuration, plus I do not know if I would trust myself to do a ported box and do it the right way.

If you could push your budget for 4 x $165 subwoofers, a $500 amp, and then the ~200 for materials, that would be your best option.

either 4 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-468 or 4 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-469 imo.

I'll do a winisd model for you after dinner.
Edited by WagBoss - 8/23/12 at 2:57pm
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 161
8/23/12 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss View Post

well off the bat your looking at:
It's about 350 bucks, you could drive 2 boxes off it, it does 800 wpc at 4 ohms. 500 wpc at 8 ohms.

It does 1400 watts per channel at 4 ohms. I own 2 of these amps.
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 161
8/23/12 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

It does 1400 watts per channel at 4 ohms. I own 2 of these amps.

No way. It's impossible to even do 1400wpc off a 20 A circuit. And OP probably has 15 A circuits. It doesn't even do 1400 wpc at 2 ohm. Someone did tests, I don't have the link right now, but its 950 wpc at 2 ohm, 1600W RMS bridged 4 ohm, 650 wpc 4 ohm. This was continuous real power.
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 161
8/23/12 at 2:59pm
I don't run mine off of 20 amps circuits. I use 30 amps. I also didn't know that the OP was using 15amp or 20 amps circuits. Either way, I know the EP4000 does a hell of a lot more than some wimpy 800W at 4 ohms. According to my math, 120volts x 20Amps = 2400 watts. That is definitely enought to fully charge 1 channel at 1400. Now, I also know that most amps can't actually do the specified ratings for long periods of time.
Edited by Jindrak - 8/23/12 at 3:05pm
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 161
8/23/12 at 3:20pm
Here are the measured results at 4 ohms of the ep2500 (4000 is the exact same):

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/30#post_10753638
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 161
8/23/12 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Here are the measured results at 4 ohms of the ep2500 (4000 is the exact same):
http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/30#post_10753638

yeah that's what i was looking for.
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 161
8/23/12 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jindrak View Post

I don't run mine off of 20 amps circuits. I use 30 amps. I also didn't know that the OP was using 15amp or 20 amps circuits. Either way, I know the EP4000 does a hell of a lot more than some wimpy 800W at 4 ohms. According to my math, 120volts x 20Amps = 2400 watts. That is definitely enought to fully charge 1 channel at 1400. Now, I also know that most amps can't actually do the specified ratings for long periods of time.

I mean, it's his FIRST DIY project, why would he have anything other than standard 15 A circuits?
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 161
8/23/12 at 3:57pm
I wouldn't know, I've never done DIY before. You should use the correct amperage according to your needs/amplifier. If by standard you mean what's already been installed in his house circuit breaker, then yes, that would be understandable.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Speakers and Subs

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › DIY Speakers and Subs › first attempt at building a sub