or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › X-Rite Eye-One Display LT not usable after 4 years?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

X-Rite Eye-One Display LT not usable after 4 years?

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
I have an “X-Rite Eye-One Display LT” that I purchased 4 years ago. I used it to calibrate my computer LCDs and 2 Plasma TVs using ColorHCFR with good results.

I recently purchased a new Plasma TV, and wanted to use it to calibrate the new TV. I installed the X-Rite software on a laptop and did a calibration of the laptop LCD using X-Rite’s iMatch software. The results were horrible. It simply looks wrong, white looks way too blue, it hurts my eyes looking at it.

Do calibration devices such as the i1 Display LT goes out of spec after a while? Since the results are so bad, it must’ve gone quite out of spec. It has been lying dormant in a drawer in a protective case for the past 3 years.

If it is indeed too out of spec, what are my options for fixing it? Are there any calibration I can do? Buy a new one?

Are there meters that are better in this regard? Ie, holds its calibrated setting pretty well after a few years?

Thanks!
post #2 of 38
I also have a Display 2 that I've had for years.

I can tell you mine isn't accurate anymore.

I bought a used i1 Pro and so now I can see how much my display2 is off and I can even correct it so that it's readings are valid (after being corrected by an offset matrix.)

The i1 Pro has been under $200 regularly on ebay and sometimes way under $100 but that's luck.

Display3 or whatever the latest is,.. that's supposed to "last" better but I would rather have a specto meter to verify and correct any type of colorimeter.

-Brian
post #3 of 38
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the reply. This is sad, I need to get a new color meter every few years.. Maybe its time to train my eyes to the uncalibrated display. wink.gif

Are there devices that would hold its setting longer? I am less concerned about calibrating the computer display. I am mainly interested in calibrating television (Plasma/LED).

Thanks.
post #4 of 38
My understanding, (And hopefully others will give more input) is the photo spectrometers measure color by measuring the wavelength of light. They remain accurate generally. Whereas colorimeters have filters and diodes and the colorimeters don't remain accurate because the filters change with age.

The new colorimeter from x-rite (Display 3 I guess it's called) is said to be "sealed" so the theory is it will remain accurate longer (if it's accurate to begin with but it has a GREAT reputation.)

I would do what I did which is get a cheap used spectro meter and calibrate the Display2 whenever you want to use it.

Then you don't have to buy again.

-Brian
post #5 of 38
Thread Starter 
How do I calibrate my Display2 using a spectro meter? Is the calibration setting stored in the meter's firmware, and can be used with any calibration software such as colorHCFR? Or is this only supported in more advanced software such as Calman? (ie, the correction are only available in Calman?)

This is probably an in depth topic, but I am interested to know the high level detail to see the steps and equipments that are needed and what it means to 'calibrate' a meter.

Thanks!
Edited by wildgoose - 8/23/12 at 1:01pm
post #6 of 38
This explains how I do it.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1394567/documentation-for-offset-profiling-creation

I also use hcfr. I bought an efi-es1000 which is the same as an i1pro but often sells much cheaper used.
post #7 of 38
My used i1Pro is recognized as a 'monitor' version by the i1 diagnostics. What does this mean?
post #8 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

My used i1Pro is recognized as a 'monitor' version by the i1 diagnostics. What does this mean?

It was just an older model, for a while they has several names for it.
post #9 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

My used i1Pro is recognized as a 'monitor' version by the i1 diagnostics. What does this mean?

I believe there was a i1 that only did emmissive measurements. (which is all you would want anyway.)

Reflective measurements are for measuring paper (and often are critical in magazine production type settings)

I think I could find more info on x-rites site about this stuff.
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hampton View Post

My understanding, (And hopefully others will give more input) is the photo spectrometers measure color by measuring the wavelength of light. They remain accurate generally. Whereas colorimeters have filters and diodes and the colorimeters don't remain accurate because the filters change with age.

This is generally correct.
The spectro beaks out the light into segments based on the wavelength of light. Then there are typically 100 or more sensors that actually read a small chunk of the light that that comes into the meter. Because the holographic grating that splits the light into segments doesn't change it's properties with age, the only two things that effect spectros is mechanical alignment (don't' drop it too much) and the actual sensors themselves (which will go eventually but can last for many years).

A colorimeter only has 3 sensors (sometimes 4) and they will have a Red, Blue or Green Filter that attempts to emulate the CIE 1931 observer curve. In inexpensive meters like the i1 Display2, the filters are very similar to something like the "blue filter" you'd see packed in with a DVD. They age with light and humidity so as they discolor over time the type of light they let through changes and the accuracy of the meter goes down. The D3 seals it's optics so the amount of humidity and light it's exposed to should be mitigated. Nice colorimeters still will have glass filters that hold their profiles for much much longer periods of time (Discuss or Klien). The upside to a colorimeter is that because it has so many fewer sensors, they can be much bigger and therefore more sensitive.
post #11 of 38
Thread Starter 
I may be able to borrow a DTP-94 from someone. Based on my research, it is also a colormeter, not a spectrometer. Any opinion on how it drifts as it ages and whether it's worthwhile to use it to perhaps calibrate my i1 LT?

The i1 Pro seems to be selling for ~500 used. That's still not cheap.

I also found this link Massive Color Drift Correction for i1 Display Colorimeter. I share the same frustration. I expected an $150 meter to last slightly longer. wink.gif

I vaguely recall reading about drift and the difference between color-meter and spectro-meter when I purchased the LT back in 2008. At the time I simply assumed that for what I do (calibrating a plasma TV), the drift won't bother me. I am simply interested in getting the display to work reasonably well. I am not after a perfect calibration. Boy was I wrong. We are talking about significant drift that pretty much renders the meter useless after 2 or 3 years.

Anyway, I can calibrate the black/white level using the free AVS HD disc. I really only need the meter to calibrate the grayscale (RGB high/low). To me I feel this is the most bang for the buck and doing this will get me 90% of the benefit of a calibration. And I simply don't have time to research and do the remaining 10% with 2 kids in the house. My wife is already jokingly asking me when I will start calibrating the new TV, as she vividly remembered how I spend hours on it 4 years ago while she was taking care of our 1st baby. wink.gif I was hoping the 2nd time around it will be much faster since I already know what to do, but the damn meter is now useless. wink.gif

Anyway, if I do bite the bullet and get the i1 Pro, how long is it expected to last, for what I do (basic grayscale calibration)? If the answer is it would still perform reasonably well in 10 years, then maybe I'll get it. It doesn't look expensive compare to that $500 ISF calibration I did back in 1998 (ouch), or how much I spend in daycare or diapers each month!
post #12 of 38
You can get a brand new Colormunki Create (which is basically the same meter as the i1 Display LT) for less than $60 on-line. It will eventually have the same drift issues as the i1 Display LT, but if you store it in plastic ziplock bag with a desiccant pack in a cool dry place, it should stay reasonably accurate for a couple of years.
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildgoose View Post

Anyway, if I do bite the bullet and get the i1 Pro, how long is it expected to last, for what I do (basic grayscale calibration)? If the answer is it would still perform reasonably well in 10 years, then maybe I'll get it. It doesn't look expensive compare to that $500 ISF calibration I did back in 1998 (ouch), or how much I spend in daycare or diapers each month!

Well the oldest i1 Pro's are even 10 years old yet.

The ones we see in our Lab for re-certification are sometimes 4yrs old or more and are still within factory specs. The few we've seen out of spec either fail the diagnostics as well or have obvious physical damage.
post #14 of 38
Well, I must be lucky. My i1 LT is about five years old now and it hasn't drifted that much. It still works fine and better yet when profiled to my i1 Pro.


It has been this consistent over the past three years. (I profile the LT every six months or so.)


Larry
post #15 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Well, I must be lucky. My i1 LT is about five years old now and it hasn't drifted that much. It still works fine and better yet when profiled to my i1 Pro.

It has been this consistent over the past three years. (I profile the LT every six months or so.)
Larry

what is the average dEUV between the i1pro and the i1D LT (unprofiled)?
post #16 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

what is the average dEUV between the i1pro and the i1D LT (unprofiled)?


Here are the actual data for the LT and the Pro. The columns are red, green, and blue. That's all that is required for a profile.

For the i1 Pro:


For the i1 LT without the profiled correction:


For the i1 LT with the profiled correction:


Larry
post #17 of 38
I di an experiment yesterday afternoon with my i1Display Pro. In the afternoon sunshine, I pointed the unit at a 18% white target, and measured the response with HCFR. I found the the bright light overloaded the sensors, however when I shaded the target, I was measuring color temp in the the range of 6300~6400K. Really just a gut check on the overall response of the meter.
post #18 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Here are the actual data for the LT and the Pro. The columns are red, green, and blue. That's all that is required for a profile.
For the i1 Pro:

For the i1 LT without the profiled correction:

For the i1 LT with the profiled correction:

Larry

Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my question. Let me rephrase it. If you take a set of grayscale readings with the i1Pro and then take another set of grayscale readings with the D2 (unprofiled), what is the (average) dEUV between the two sets of readings? I believe ColorHCFR can easily show this.
post #19 of 38
Okay, but the data I gave you was sufficient.

The solid lines are the LT and the dotted lines are the Pro.The yellow/orange line is the delta E between the two meters.

GS -- LT vs Pro uncorrected (profile not used.)


GS -- LT vs Pro profiled.



Larry
post #20 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Okay, but the data I gave you was sufficient.
The solid lines are the LT and the dotted lines are the Pro.The yellow/orange line is the delta E between the two meters.
GS -- LT vs Pro uncorrected (profile not used.)

GS -- LT vs Pro profiled.

Larry

your D2 appears to be exceptionally accurate on whatever display you were measuring from 30% to 100%.... you must have a exceptionally accurate sample of that meter since most here who have a i1 Pro and D2 have measured a dEUV of 4 or more when doing such a comparison

the results from the i1Pro at 10% and 20% can probably be discarded, given the meter's limits with low light sensitivity
post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

your D2 appears to be exceptionally accurate on whatever display you were measuring from 30% to 100%.... you must have a exceptionally accurate sample of that meter since most here who have a i1 Pro and D2 have measured a dEUV of 4 or more when doing such a comparison
the results from the i1Pro at 10% and 20% can probably be discarded, given the meter's limits with low light sensitivity


My rev A i1 LT has behaved the same for two Panasonic X1 plasmas and a Samsung 64D7000 plasma. Up until the 2011 Samsung model, I had a total of six Panasonics including the two that I still have and the i1 has performed with the same accuracy -- it has not changed in any significant manner with all the profiles that I have done over the past three years with my series D i1 Pro.

I agree about the poor performance of the Pro below 30%. That's why I use the profiled LT for calibrations.smile.gif


Larry
post #22 of 38
A better way to compare the accuracy of the meter over time, and compare the LT to the i1Pro, would be to compare the actual xy coordinates of the primary and secondary colors that it's reading, or L*a*b or XYZ values, and not just the dE values. For instance the i1Pro could be measuring the blue primary as the same location over the years while the i1LT is measuring in different xy locations each time, but one that causes you to have a DeltaE that is the same each time. The actual measured values could be shifting while the dE is staying the same. Using values that are just absolute measurements (dE, or the measured xy difference) doesn't provide a good idea of if the meter is actually drifting over time, that that an interpretation of the reading is close to a known standard.
post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

A better way to compare the accuracy of the meter over time, and compare the LT to the i1Pro, would be to compare the actual xy coordinates of the primary and secondary colors that it's reading, or L*a*b or XYZ values, and not just the dE values. For instance the i1Pro could be measuring the blue primary as the same location over the years while the i1LT is measuring in different xy locations each time, but one that causes you to have a DeltaE that is the same each time. The actual measured values could be shifting while the dE is staying the same. Using values that are just absolute measurements (dE, or the measured xy difference) doesn't provide a good idea of if the meter is actually drifting over time, that that an interpretation of the reading is close to a known standard.

What if the display you are measuring drifts? Wouldn't that also affect the xy coordinates?
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by slb View Post

What if the display you are measuring drifts? Wouldn't that also affect the xy coordinates?

yes that's why he was saying both the reference meter x,y and the target meter x,y should both be provided.
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smackrabbit View Post

A better way to compare the accuracy of the meter over time, and compare the LT to the i1Pro, would be to compare the actual xy coordinates of the primary and secondary colors that it's reading, or L*a*b or XYZ values, and not just the dE values. For instance the i1Pro could be measuring the blue primary as the same location over the years while the i1LT is measuring in different xy locations each time, but one that causes you to have a DeltaE that is the same each time. The actual measured values could be shifting while the dE is staying the same. Using values that are just absolute measurements (dE, or the measured xy difference) doesn't provide a good idea of if the meter is actually drifting over time, that that an interpretation of the reading is close to a known standard.


If you look at my data presented in post #16 you will see that the delta xy of the LT after the profile is applied is exactly the same as that of the Pro.


Here are the co-ordinates for the primary colors. The secondary colors were not measured since they are not needed to create the profile. (I left the Y values in the picture snips to show that I didn't copy the same one twice.smile.gif)

Pro coordinates:


LT coordinates with profile:


Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 9/2/12 at 3:18pm
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

If you look at my data presented in post #16 you will see that the delta xy of the LT after the profile is applied is exactly the same as that of the Pro.
Here are the co-ordinates for the primary colors. The secondary colors were not measured since they are not needed to create the profile. (I left the Y values in the picture snips to show that I didn't copy the same one twice.smile.gif)
Pro coordinates:

LT coordinates with profile:

Larry

what about white? don't you also need that for the profile?
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

what about white? don't you also need that for the profile?


Of course I needed white but to include it in the snip would have extended the graph too much. Anyway, here are the results for white.

Pro: x = 0.311, y = 0.328, Y = 47.466
LT profiled: x = 0.311, y = 0.328, Y = 47.466

My LT has not drifted much at all. My LT profiles almost perfectly with my Pro. I don't think that it is necessary anymore to continue on about my specific meters.


edited to add Y values

Larry
Edited by LarryInRI - 9/2/12 at 5:05pm
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post


My LT has not drifted much at all. My LT profiles almost perfectly with my Pro. I don't think that it is necessary anymore to continue on about my specific meters.

I agree. Thanks for sharing your data.
post #29 of 38
This may be of interest. We can rent a I1Pro for $105 a week = deposit. Squeaze a couple more years out of a LT? Anyone know if the drift accelerates with age?

http://www.hippotechsolutions.com/?page_id=15
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlouw View Post

This may be of interest. We can rent a I1Pro for $105 a week = deposit. Squeaze a couple more years out of a LT? Anyone know if the drift accelerates with age?
http://www.hippotechsolutions.com/?page_id=15

or you could buy a used i1pro for about $200-$400 and profile the LT every six months or so
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › X-Rite Eye-One Display LT not usable after 4 years?