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The DVD Is Dying - Page 42

post #1231 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

good point. I was surprised that the public actually got into the whole 1080 thing.
Just shows that if you hype it enough the public will probably eat it up.

Why did 1080P HDTVs come about? Because CEMs could charge more for them. Not 500% more - just 35% more. And the public didn't embrace "Full HD" until prices came down A LOT. Yet even today, they still buy plenty of 720P (or 768P) HDTVs.

The USA spent 8 years getting the HDTV standard set in place. It started in 1990 and the first OTA broadcasts were in 1998. It was always the intention to use HDTV as the next television standard. That is not the case with 4K.
Quote:
4k + OLED would be sick.

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2012/09/hdtv-expert-no-oledtv-panel-production-from-lgd-until-2013-by-ken-werner.php
post #1232 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Sure, some complain about the bars...and many also complain about the cropping (both subscribers and filmmakers alike). The problem is that HBO ignores the latter group. Black bars havenot affected the growth of BDs...which continues to rise. Actually, the title of this thread is a bit misleading...DVD may be dying but BD is growing.

Growth rates for BD Sell-Thru:

2009: 78%
2010: 68%
2011: 20%
2012 YTD <15%
Quote:
If the black bars were so offensive, would people (yes, even HBO subscribers) spend $6 - $12 a pop to stream widescreen movies from Vudu, CinemaNow, Amazon, Blockbuster, etc, as well as purchase BD discs? Cropping is antiquated...a sad holdover from the VHS days. The fact the HBO still foists it upon us is more shameful than ever.: If it weren't for their original programming, many of us wouldn't even keep HBO in this day and age.

We don't have an accurate revenue number for VOD because all the Wrestling matches are included (they are expensive and they are popular). You also have all the PPVs that Comcast, TW CBL, SAT, etc sells - not all their HD movies are in OAR.

BTW, HBO isn't the only one not showing OAR on their HD channel(s). AMC-HD does it too, just not with all content.
post #1233 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Why did 1080P HDTVs come about? Because CEMs could charge more for them. Not 500% more - just 35% more. And the public didn't embrace "Full HD" until prices came down A LOT. Yet even today, they still buy plenty of 720P (or 768P) HDTVs.
The USA spent 8 years getting the HDTV standard set in place. It started in 1990 and the first OTA broadcasts were in 1998. It was always the intention to use HDTV as the next television standard. That is not the case with 4K.
http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2012/09/hdtv-expert-no-oledtv-panel-production-from-lgd-until-2013-by-ken-werner.php

True, but that was the 1st rodeo for increasing the res for broadcasting since 4ever-not so this time. It'll be somewhat easier this go round. I'll look around and see where I read about Cox/Directv commented about their long term plans(positive) and post the link.
post #1234 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Growth rates for BD Sell-Thru:
2009: 78%
2010: 68%
2011: 20%
2012 YTD <15%
We don't have an accurate revenue number for VOD because all the Wrestling matches are included (they are expensive and they are popular). You also have all the PPVs that Comcast, TW CBL, SAT, etc sells - not all their HD movies are in OAR.
BTW, HBO isn't the only one not showing OAR on their HD channel(s). AMC-HD does it too, just not with all content.

And their sister channel Cinemax. And FX. And Paramount/Disney films on Starz. (Sony films used to be cropped also, but that has changed and now they are being presented in OAR on that channel.) Another difference: HBO even crops 3D movies, while Starz seems to show them OAR, even when the standard HD showings are cropped.. I can understand cropping films on basic channels like AMC, FX, SyFy, etc. (They are already censored anyway, and filled with commercial breaks,) But not on premium channels where we have to pay monthly.subscription fees.

As for PPV, I've never viewed one that was not OAR (via FIOS). Of course, I can't verify every film without ordering them all! (And they have lots and lots!)

According to Home Media Research, for the week ending 8/25 (dog days)...BD sales = $37.95 million, up 115.6% from the same period last year.
post #1235 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

And their sister channel Cinemax. And FX. And Paramount/Disney films on Starz. (Sony films used to be cropped also, but that has changed and now they are being presented in OAR on that channel.) Another difference: HBO even crops 3D movies, while Starz seems to show them OAR, even when the standard HD showings are cropped.. I can understand cropping films on basic channels like AMC, FX, SyFy, etc. (They are already censored anyway, and filled with commercial breaks,) But not on premium channels where we have to pay monthly.subscription fees.
As for PPV, I've never viewed one that was not OAR (via FIOS). Of course, I can't verify every film without ordering them all! (And they have lots and lots!)
According to Home Media Research, for the week ending 8/25 (dog days)...BD sales = $37.95 million, up 115.6% from the same period last year.

Yes - The Hunger Games was a good seller. Of course that is just one week. I am talking about YTD - all 34 weeks.
post #1236 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter0911 View Post

And HBO streams their movies on HBO Go in OAR

THAT is surprising! Did not know that. So one can view a movie from HBO in OAR on an iPhone...but not on a big screen TV! The irony is hilarious!
post #1237 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

True, but that was the 1st rodeo for increasing the res for broadcasting since 4ever-not so this time. It'll be somewhat easier this go round. I'll look around and see where I read about Cox/Directv commented about their long term plans(positive) and post the link.

You are referring to this?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1400304/4k-may-be-sooner-than-you-think-at-least-directv-thinks-so

DirecTV shows 3D content right? But in what 3D format? Is it the superior Frame Packing 3D format, like 3D BD uses that give you Full HD per eye (with active shutter glasses), or is it the lower res per eye (Half HD) Frame Compatible 3D format - which it is.

Frame Packing requires twice the bandwidth that Frame Compatible does. Frame Conpatible uses the same bandwidth that a regular HD program uses.

The reason why 3D BD can do FP is because they spin the disc at 2X speed increasing the bit rate by 50%.
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/10/12 at 10:40pm
post #1238 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

So one can view a movie from HBO in OAR on an iPhone...but not on a big screen TV!

Actually, you can. Roku, xBox 360, and some Samsung smart TVs all have the HBO Go app available.
post #1239 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Yes - The Hunger Games was a good seller. Of course that is just one week. I am talking about YTD - all 34 weeks.



Well, guess we'll have to wait and see what the numbers are for this year...after AVENGERS, DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, PROMETHEUS, MIB 3, SPIDER-MAN, INDY TRILOGY, the BOND films, JAWS, Restored FRANKENSTEIN/BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, etc. etc. are released.
Edited by cinema13 - 9/10/12 at 10:47pm
post #1240 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Well, guess we'll have to wait and see what the numbers are for this year...after AVENGERS, DARK KNIGHT RETURNS, PROMETHEUS, MIB 3, SPIDER-MAN, INDY TRILOGY, the BOND films, JAWS, Restored FRANKENSTEIN/BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, etc. etc. are released.

Yes - it was BDs best week the entire year. There have been plenty that looked like this:

Webresearch-082012.jpg

JAWS BTW was already released.
post #1241 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Actually, you can. Roku, xBox 360, and some Samsung smart TVs all have the HBO Go app available.

Well, have a Samsung BD player with Smart Hub, but it has no HBO app. (altho they have just added a Verizon FIOS app which included HBO and HBO2...but those just the same HD channels all FIOS subs normally see. No HBO GO on players I guess..)
post #1242 of 1422
Yeah, it's mostly portable devices that use HBO Go (hence the name.) Since you can only view HBO Go if you have an HBO subscription, there's not a big push to have the app, as most would just view the channel the regular way.

But some devices have it available anyway, and there are lots of xBox owners (and a not insignificant number of Roku owners.)
post #1243 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

I hear way more complaints from average people about black bars than I do about cropping. Whenever people ask me for advice (not here, in my non-HT circles) about stuff like that, it's always "I don't ever want to see black bars. How can I do this?"
I suspect HBO hears a similar proportion of complaints.

Thing is...those people can use the ZOOM function and eliminate the picture information themselves, if that is what they prefer. But there is no button we can use to view cropped movies in OAR. HBO prefers to penalize all viewers. Films should be presented as intended to be seen if on a pay-service...and let those who don't like it just zoom in the image. That way....everyone's happy. All should not have to suffer due to the ignorance of others. HBO remains, as Steven Soderbergh put it, "the poster child for stupidity."
Edited by cinema13 - 9/10/12 at 11:08pm
post #1244 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Thing is...those people can use the ZOOM function and eliminate the picture information themselves, if that is what they prefer.

I agree, but HBO is looking at their mass audience, and if the majority don't tolerate black bars, they'll cater to them so they don't have to even lift a finger to push a button rather than risk losing that audience (however small that risk might actually be.) I suspect they either did a survey or used focus groups to arrive at their reasoning for doing it.

Wouldn't be the first time a company has catered to the mouthbreathers.
post #1245 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Thing is...those people can use the ZOOM function and eliminate the picture information themselves, if that is what they prefer. But there is no button we can use to view cropped movies in OAR. HBO prefers to penalize all viewers. Films should be presented as intended to be seen if on a pay-service...and let those who don't like it just zoom in the image. That way....everyone's happy. All should not have to suffer due to the ignorance of others. HBO remains, as Steven Soderbergh put it, "the poster child for stupidity."

It is probably a case of majority rules. I am sure you have heard of that concept before.
post #1246 of 1422
LOL - it's appears from this link that HBO was originally PRO OAR for their HD channel. Trying to find what changed:

http://www.caucus.org/archives/99sum_conversation.html
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/10/12 at 11:22pm
post #1247 of 1422
Ain't this a kick in the face:
Quote:
Home Box Office, Inc.
Michael Keyserling
SVP, Advanced Technology & Operations

April 30, 2012

Dear Affiliate:

HBO would like to inform you about some upcoming changes to the appearance of the programming on the HBO and Cinemax Standard Definition (SD) channels. Commencing in early May 2012, an increasing number of the theatrical films on the SD linear channels will start to be letterboxed, just as HBO original programming has been for many years. HBO has already begun making similar changes to the SD versions of HBO-on-Demand (HOD) and Cinemax-on-Demand (MaxOD). Other program networks have already undertaken similar changes, and consumers are becoming visually accustomed to the widescreen (letterboxed) format on SD channels.

There will be no changes to the appearance of the programming on the HD linear channels, nor changes to the appearance of the HD versions of HOD and MaxOD. You will not need to take any action with regard to your reception of HBO and Cinemax, nor with regard to your delivery of the services to HBO and Cinemax subscribers.

Please note that from time to time, a particular theatrical title may air in full frame on the primary HBO and Cinemax SD linear feeds, yet may air letterboxed when that same title airs on the multiplex feeds.
Timing and transition:

The transition of the HBO and Cinemax SD linear feeds will start in early May 2012 with the goal of completion by early June 2012. This phased transition will occur on a per-feed basis. Our current plan is to schedule the transition of each channel during business hours (8 am ET – 5pm ET). There should be no interruptions in service during the transition.
post #1248 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

I agree, but HBO is looking at their mass audience, and if the majority don't tolerate black bars, they'll cater to them so they don't have to even lift a finger to push a button rather than risk losing that audience (however small that risk might actually be.) I suspect they either did a survey or used focus groups to arrive at their reasoning for doing it.
Wouldn't be the first time a company has catered to the mouthbreathers.

Well, that apparently hasn't worked, as HBO (last I read) has been losing subscribers.. While #2 Showtime (which DOES present films in OAR) has been gaining subscribers. According to David Nevins (Showtime Entertainment Prez)...“We don’t think it’s an accident that five years ago we were at 13 million subs, and now we’re pushing 22 million,.” HBO is around 28 million, down from around 30 (or plus) million. Yes, much of the growth may be due to original programming, but I'm sure there's also a group of movie fans (like myself) who appreciate their OAR policy. (Although occasionally Paramount will occasionally send them an older, cropped film.)

By the way, some of these channels have their own message boards and I've seen postings complaining about cropping on any board I've perused. Guess they don't count.
post #1249 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Ain't this a kick in the face:


Sadly, it did say that "There will be no changes to the appearance of the programming on the HD linear channels, nor changes to the appearance of the HD versions of HOD and MaxOD.." They got that right! Damn you HBO! If I wasn't an extra on Boardwalk, I'd dump the channel right now!
post #1250 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Well, that apparently hasn't worked, as HBO (last I read) has been losing subscribers.. While #2 Showtime (which DOES present films in OAR) has been gaining subscribers.

I doubt the mass loss is solely due to OAR/cropping controversy. More for the differences in programming, I'm sure. I know a lot of people gave up after the Sopranos ended.
Quote:
By the way, some of these channels have their own message boards and I've seen postings complaining about cropping on any board I've perused. Guess they don't count.

And I've seen posts on this board complaining about black bars. Some by members with quite a few posts. Complaints about black bars...on an HT forum.
post #1251 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

I doubt the mass loss is solely due to OAR/cropping controversy. More for the differences in programming, I'm sure. I know a lot of people gave up after the Sopranos ended.

Of course, and I stated as much. But there is surely a smaller contingent that doesn't like cropping and vote with their dollars, perhaps
applying them to a channel that shows films OAR. I know of at least three people who left for that reason (tho one returned for GoT) and even more people that I've never met personally. We can't be the ONLY ones.i

Quote:
And I've seen posts on this board complaining about black bars. Some by members with quite a few posts. Complaints about black bars...on an HT forum.

Yeah, but somerimes they're just joking...or trying to rile things up. Although I know at least one poster was serious!
post #1252 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

Of course, and I stated as much. But there is surely a smaller contingent that doesn't like cropping and vote with their dollars, perhaps
applying them to a channel that shows films OAR. I know of at least three people who left for that reason (tho one returned for GoT) and even more people that I've never met personally. We can't be the ONLY ones.i

Oh, I'm sure it's a fairly good number that prefer OAR. But most people don't know what OAR is, and a good chunk of those only know that they hate black bars.
Quote:
Yeah, but somerimes they're just joking. Although I know at least one poster was serious!

None of the ones I saw were joking. They were clearly against black bars. Even after having OAR explained to them, they still ranted against them.
post #1253 of 1422
I pretty sure that huge OD sales have more to do with what movies actually were released.

There were some pretty big releases the last few years (starwars, lotr, harry potter, ect). This year so far has been lacking the really huge movies that push sales. Comparing numbers at this point is useless since Nov/Dec is when the big OD sales happen
post #1254 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightintel View Post

Did they see a difference between 720/1080? By your logic we shouldn't even have 1080 then.

I'm pretty sure you got your answer from others here .. the main context of my post was consumers are not interested in another format change .. for the most part, they are not even taking full advantage of what we have now .. and although the CE industry would love to see it so they can sell some TV's and disks, it's not gonna happen soon .. a 1080p TV is not going to look any better with a 4K disc ..
post #1255 of 1422
I predict that one day all AV will be sent directly to our brains. You lot can now discuss how it will work! biggrin.gif
post #1256 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

I predict that one day all AV will be sent directly to our brains. You lot can now discuss how it will work! biggrin.gif

its the truth though. It will happen (direct to brain) but it won't be for decades. But the question about DVD is dying is just as relevant as if streaming is dying. All technology is dying, no technology lasts forever.

with signals going directly to the brain the video/audio quality will be amazing. Its actually not that far off.
post #1257 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

its the truth though. It will happen (direct to brain) but it won't be for decades. But the question about DVD is dying is just as relevant as if streaming is dying. All technology is dying, no technology lasts forever.
with signals going directly to the brain the video/audio quality will be amazing. Its actually not that far off.

BS! It will never happen.
post #1258 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

BS! It will never happen.

Or so you think! I already have a patent on the DTB format. I'm close to getting someone smart enough to create a viable means for it so I can make a lot of money off of his or her hard work.

I must admit that our test subjects have not fared well thus far. They are experiencing dizziness and severe headaches.
post #1259 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Or so you think! I already have a patent on the DTB format. I'm close to getting someone smart enough to create a viable means for it so I can make a lot of money off of his or her hard work.
I must admit that our test subjects have not fared well thus far. They are experiencing dizziness and severe headaches.

I am working with NASA - on Warp Speed for spaceships. They keep saying it's not doable, but I keep telling them it is! I have seen it on TV! tongue.gif
post #1260 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

its the truth though. It will happen (direct to brain) but it won't be for decades. But the question about DVD is dying is just as relevant as if streaming is dying. All technology is dying, no technology lasts forever.
with signals going directly to the brain the video/audio quality will be amazing. Its actually not that far off.

I say the Holodeck may be closer to reality ..
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