or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The DVD Is Dying - Page 6

post #151 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And your painting analogy sucks BTW. Totally difference viewing experience - art on your wall versus looking at the art on your PC. There is no difference in the viewing experience whether you rent the disc from Redbox or buy it from Best Buy.

I mostly agree with you. The mine run rental BD from Blockbuster or Redbox will indeed give you a movie viewing and listening experience that is indistinguishable from the retail version. The only exception to this general rule I've seen has been on a couple of Rental BDs that the studios crippled with Lossy audio. Another difference is that some retail versions of movies have two discs, the second of which has the extras. On single disc retail editions, however, my experience has been that there is no difference between them and the rental versions.

All of that said, though, I virtually don't rent BDs anymore. If it is a film I am genuinely fond of, I'll spring for the retail version and if it's a film I am less interested in I'll wait for it to show up on one of the premium movie channels on cable. Streaming is a nonstarter, at least for me. Even if the new compression algorithm will accommodate streamed 1080p video, compressed audio no matter what algorithm is used, is by definition lossy and not lossless. No thanks.
post #152 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

You're talking about the Redbox disc that's had the movie compressed onto a single layer, stripped of all bonus features, and has 35 forced non-skippable advertisements before the menu? That Redbox disc? smile.gif

Is that every single disc from every studio?
Quote:
These things are cyclical. We are a consumerist society. The economy will rebound eventually (maybe not in the near future, but eventually), and when people have money again, they will start buying the things they like again.

Except they now realize that the impulse to buy movies was an error. It just didn't make sense financially. When the mindset changes so do the actions of consumers.
post #153 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I mostly agree with you. The mine run rental BD from Blockbuster or Redbox will indeed give you a movie viewing and listening experience that is indistinguishable from the retail version. The only exception to this general rule I've seen has been on a couple of Rental BDs that the studios crippled with Lossy audio. Another difference is that some retail versions of movies have two discs, the second of which has the extras. On single disc retail editions, however, my experience has been that there is no difference between them and the rental versions.
All of that said, though, I virtually don't rent BDs anymore. If it is a film I am genuinely fond of, I'll spring for the retail version and if it's a film I am less interested in I'll wait for it to show up on one of the premium movie channels on cable. Streaming is a nonstarter, at least for me. Even if the new compression algorithm will accommodate streamed 1080p video, compressed audio no matter what algorithm is used, is by definition lossy and not lossless. No thanks.

And when the time comes (if it already hasn't) that you won't be able to tell the difference between say Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD?
post #154 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do. Quality matters to me, like it matters to most of us here. I don't care about the release window. I'm not in any particular hurry to watch anything. I'll continue to patronize Netflix, at least until they stop renting disks. That's probably a few years away and streaming options may be of a higher quality by then.

+1
post #155 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Is that every single disc from every studio?

It's a few but I don't think it's chronic. Most have full menus, dual layers, etc., in my experience.
post #156 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

....All of that said, though, I virtually don't rent BDs anymore. If it is a film I am genuinely fond of, I'll spring for the retail version and if it's a film I am less interested in I'll wait for it to show up on one of the premium movie channels on cable. Streaming is a nonstarter, at least for me. Even if the new compression algorithm will accommodate streamed 1080p video, compressed audio no matter what algorithm is used, is by definition lossy and not lossless. No thanks.

Sounds pretty much like where we are currently.
We have 3 streaming-capable devices (all Panasonic), but the PQ is typically below Uverse "cable" - and that's with a wired connection, have no idea how it work / look over WiFi! - and Audio is usually limited to Dolby ProLogic, instead of a 5.1 format. Not overly horrible if we can get something for "free," but not the viewing / listening experience we enjoy with blu-ray (or often even with a SD DVD!).

Our "kids" all have Multiple Steaming devices - and use various combinations of Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and/or Whatever - and yet they all also purchase Blu-ray copies of the movies / shows that they most like.

And with many slightly-older blu-rays running at $9.99 or less - including such "golden oldies" as MI:Ghost Protocol, Limitless, and Source Code - there seems little sense in spending $5 - 6 to rent a sub-standard stream.

Suspect that panel size may play a part in this discussion / preference as well: certainly in our case, we have found that a source that provides "acceptable" video on our 42 or 50 inch screens, often looks downright Ugly on our 60" panel. As more people move to the larger panel sizes, their opinion of lower resolution / quality sources (such as SD DVDs or streaming) may change.

Even my folks - running a pair of 46" LCDs - have been converting over to blu-ray due to the better video quality.... wink.gif
post #157 of 1422
post #158 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by archiguy View Post

As long as I can rent or buy a BD that plays at a crisp 1080p with no compression, filtering, or artifacts and gives me lossless 6 or 8 channel sound, that's what I'm going to do. Quality matters to me, like it matters to most of us here. I don't care about the release window. I'm not in any particular hurry to watch anything. I'll continue to patronize Netflix, at least until they stop renting disks. That's probably a few years away and streaming options may be of a higher quality by then.

+1
post #159 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I mostly agree with you. The mine run rental BD from Blockbuster or Redbox will indeed give you a movie viewing and listening experience that is indistinguishable from the retail version. The only exception to this general rule I've seen has been on a couple of Rental BDs that the studios crippled with Lossy audio. Another difference is that some retail versions of movies have two discs, the second of which has the extras. On single disc retail editions, however, my experience has been that there is no difference between them and the rental versions.
All of that said, though, I virtually don't rent BDs anymore. If it is a film I am genuinely fond of, I'll spring for the retail version and if it's a film I am less interested in I'll wait for it to show up on one of the premium movie channels on cable. Streaming is a nonstarter, at least for me. Even if the new compression algorithm will accommodate streamed 1080p video, compressed audio no matter what algorithm is used, is by definition lossy and not lossless. No thanks.

Lossy vs Lossless is not an issue, most people can't tell the difference. For example , I doubt if folks could tell the difference between DTS-HD master (lossless) and DTS lossy in a double blind listening test.
post #160 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

And when the time comes (if it already hasn't) that you won't be able to tell the difference between say Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby TrueHD?

Its not the codec, streaming audio does something to compress the sound, it's just not as dynamic as audio of Blu Ray or DVD.
post #161 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Its not the codec, streaming audio does something to compress the sound, it's just not as dynamic as audio of Blu Ray or DVD.

But that is today. Tomorrow . . .

Dolby Digital Plus is capable of the following:

Coded bitrate: 0.032 to 6.144 Mbit/s

Audio Channels: 1.0 to 13.1 (i.e. from mono to 13 full range channels and a low frequency effects channel)

Sample rate: 32, 44.1 or 48 kHz

Bit depth: up to 24 bits per channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus
post #162 of 1422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

Lossy vs Lossless is not an issue, most people can't tell the difference. For example , I doubt if folks could tell the difference between DTS-HD master (lossless) and DTS lossy in a double blind listening test.

+1

I've never understood the argument of demanding lossless over lossy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but lossy is compressed, but only eliminates the frequencies that cannot be heard by the human ear. So, you can't tell a difference.
post #163 of 1422
My 2 cents

Even though the Blu ray players can directly access the internet and stream content, people still must either have a network, the ability to connect the BR player to the network(wired direct is the easiest, wireless the average person may struggle with security setttings, etc) and then be able to navigate the BR menus to access Hulu, NF, etc. Or they have to find someone that can configure everthing for them. I think this is still a ways off.

The interesting thing is that I was in China for work and wanted to purchase a cheap DVD or BR player there (usually region free there) so I could bring along some movies for my next trip. I went into Gome ( kinda like a Best Buy in China), asked where they were and was told no one buys them anymore - everybody downloads their movies there. At least most of the kids do. I would guess most are pirated.

I eventually found one in a British based store.

BK
post #164 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoblK View Post

My 2 cents
Even though the Blu ray players can directly access the internet and stream content, people still must either have a network, the ability to connect the BR player to the network(wired direct is the easiest, wireless the average person may struggle with security setttings, etc) and then be able to navigate the BR menus to access Hulu, NF, etc. Or they have to find someone that can configure everthing for them. I think this is still a ways off.

Yes, you would need a router of some type. Not much needed for security, though, as the router takes care of most of that. Maybe inputing your Netflix password once, your VUDU password once, etc. After that, it's pretty intuitive. If you can navigate DVD menus, you can navigate online delivery systems.

I wouldn't say it's a ways off. Lots of people have game consoles and stream Netflix that way.

If streaming stuff confuses people, they're likely to be confused by anything more complex than turning their TV on and flipping through channels.
post #165 of 1422
i love when people use piracy when talking about the need for more digital distribution, they fail to realize that people who download movies dont want to pay. i dont know about the rest of you but when i pay for something i want something i can actually hold in my hands
post #166 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoblK View Post

My 2 cents
Even though the Blu ray players can directly access the internet and stream content, people still must either have a network, the ability to connect the BR player to the network(wired direct is the easiest, wireless the average person may struggle with security setttings, etc) and then be able to navigate the BR menus to access Hulu, NF, etc. Or they have to find someone that can configure everthing for them. I think this is still a ways off.

BK
You just need a smartphone that can tether a display device via BT or WiFi.
Edited by iamian - 8/31/12 at 6:34pm
post #167 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Why is it sad? Hollywood hasn't stopped offering movies for purchase. Nor will they. The market for optical discs is still almost the same split it was back in 2006; 2/3's of the revenue comes from sell thru and 1/3 comes from rental. Only the numbers ($) themselves have changed (down).

Sad because that is where the entertainment industry wants it do go. If they sell you a copy their only cash flow is from that copy. If they can stream it to you however for a 'low nominal fee'. Well that keeps on giving.
post #168 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoblK View Post

My 2 cents
Even though the Blu ray players can directly access the internet and stream content, people still must either have a network, the ability to connect the BR player to the network(wired direct is the easiest, wireless the average person may struggle with security setttings, etc) and then be able to navigate the BR menus to access Hulu, NF, etc. Or they have to find someone that can configure everthing for them. I think this is still a ways off.
The interesting thing is that I was in China for work and wanted to purchase a cheap DVD or BR player there (usually region free there) so I could bring along some movies for my next trip. I went into Gome ( kinda like a Best Buy in China), asked where they were and was told no one buys them anymore - everybody downloads their movies there. At least most of the kids do. I would guess most are pirated.
I eventually found one in a British based store.
BK

Well a very very high majority of chinese either a) don't make a TON of money to spend on high end audio/video equipment or b) can't have loud audio because they live in condo's/apartments. A high majority of chinese would consume content on smart phones and laptops, therefore they want digital copies, not physical blu-rays. In north america it is very different because people have money to spend, and lots of people live in suburbs/houses, especially rich people who spend money.
post #169 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Sad because that is where the entertainment industry wants it do go. If they sell you a copy their only cash flow is from that copy. If they can stream it to you however for a 'low nominal fee'. Well that keeps on giving.
But of course the entertainment industry is notorious for not understanding what's good for them. They kicked and screamed about VHS recorders, yet that technology and the DVDs which followed became an essential part of their revenue stream.

They seem to misunderstand a basic fact: selling a DVD for $10-20 that gets watched once or twice gives them more revenue than selling the same streamed movie for $3-5. Very few people are going to pay to stream the same movie multiple times, given that they rarely even watch the DVD a second time even though there's no incremental cost for doing so.
post #170 of 1422
Personally I enjoy buying physical media and always have, but there is always a downside to anything. My current train of thought is that I will usually buy a Blu-ray Disc if the movie is important to me or if it is cheap. I still occasionally buy DVD's if the price is right, but not so much anymore. I'm okay with media streaming for stuff that I wouldn't care to own or stuff that I would only watch once every several years. The fact is, storing all of these DVD's and Blu-ray Discs takes space and I'm finding that to be an issue now for myself personally. My condo is less than 500 square feet and I have other possessions besides movies! I've been in the practice over the past couple of years of removing my less important DVD's from their cases and putting them into wallets (I will get rid of the case but keep the sleeve). Now I am just starting to copy my DVD's to hard drives and storing the discs and am just playing back the movies with my Western Digital TV Live Plus HD media player device.
post #171 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Sad because that is where the entertainment industry wants it do go. If they sell you a copy their only cash flow is from that copy. If they can stream it to you however for a 'low nominal fee'. Well that keeps on giving.
But of course the entertainment industry is notorious for not understanding what's good for them. They kicked and screamed about VHS recorders, yet that technology and the DVDs which followed became an essential part of their revenue stream.

They seem to misunderstand a basic fact: selling a DVD for $10-20 that gets watched once or twice gives them more revenue than selling the same streamed movie for $3-5. Very few people are going to pay to stream the same movie multiple times, given that they rarely even watch the DVD a second time even though there's no incremental cost for doing so.

I wonder what the costs are for the production of the optical disc and their distribution compared to storing/serving up that movie digitally....wonder where the magic $ point is for the original content owner? Also wonder what the history has been of compensation to those participating in profits for optical format vs digital....
post #172 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I wonder what the costs are for the production of the optical disc and their distribution compared to storing/serving up that movie digitally....wonder where the magic $ point is for the original content owner? Also wonder what the history has been of compensation to those participating in profits for optical format vs digital....

the cost of production and distribution is fractions of a dollar. The cost is mainly studio profit and dealer markup. The problem here is dealer mark-up I think. It would be extremely easy to sell movies internet direct, and it would be cheaper for the consumer and more profitable for the studios.
post #173 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

But that is today. Tomorrow . . .
Dolby Digital Plus is capable of the following:
Coded bitrate: 0.032 to 6.144 Mbit/s
Audio Channels: 1.0 to 13.1 (i.e. from mono to 13 full range channels and a low frequency effects channel)
Sample rate: 32, 44.1 or 48 kHz
Bit depth: up to 24 bits per channel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Digital_Plus
Impressive....but is it LOSSLESS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarm87 View Post

i love when people use piracy when talking about the need for more digital distribution, they fail to realize that people who download movies dont want to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinjuku View Post

Sad because that is where the entertainment industry wants it do go. If they sell you a copy their only cash flow is from that copy. If they can stream it to you however for a 'low nominal fee'. Well that keeps on giving.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Nelson View Post

But of course the entertainment industry is notorious for not understanding what's good for them. They kicked and screamed about VHS recorders, yet that technology and the DVDs which followed became an essential part of their revenue stream.
They seem to misunderstand a basic fact: selling a DVD for $10-20 that gets watched once or twice gives them more revenue than selling the same streamed movie for $3-5. Very few people are going to pay to stream the same movie multiple times, given that they rarely even watch the DVD a second time even though there's no incremental cost for doing so.
There is NOTHING worse than having AVS members who make sense.....wink.gif
post #174 of 1422
With 4k on the horizon, I doubt that streaming will become the preferred method of consumers anytime soon, although the technology will take over at some point. It would take some considerably powerul, and costly, servers to house true blu-ray quality movies to the masses and a much faster consumer grade Internet network..... DSL anyone? Rest easy, streaming will continue to grow, but it has some maturing to do before it trumps the physical disc.
post #175 of 1422
If DVD technology vanishes there is more to it than watching movies. If a giant avalanche slides down a mountian more than one tree in the forest is knocked down.

I challenge proponents of "THE DVD IS DEAD" to discuss the impact "streaming only" has on businesses (all categories), industry (all industry), public / private institutions, governmental operations, political, individuals, economic (public & private), worldwide paradyme shift, learning curve, Internet accessibility, medical, mobility.

Also discuss the impact of a DVD niche market considering all of the above.

Hope you are up to this challenge. eek.gif
Edited by 49Merc - 9/1/12 at 10:07am
post #176 of 1422
Ah yes another optical disc is dead article.. Been seeing these every year for the past 5 years or so. Let's look at the numbers...

Last year revenue for home video spending per the DEG breaks down roughly to the following:
$14.5B for optical disc rental and sell-through for digital
$3.4B for digital (includes streaming, VOD, sell-through, etc)

With the bulk of the digital revenue coming from rental (VOD, streaming, etc). Anyone see that optical disc is dead here? Buehler? At the current pace digital is growing it is going to be a long time, and some form of physical media may be here to stay.

As far as quality and options goes, let me know when digital can meet what optical disc does now (PQ, AQ, special features, subtitles, etc). And really let me know when it actually builds on what Blu-Ray does. I mean exceeds the quality. Otherwise, optical disc is the way to go for price and performance. I readily buy brand new Blu-Ray movies for $7-10 frequently and used ones on average of about $3 during sales. I sometimes splurge and pay over $20 for a movie but it is few and far between. And that price often includes a Blu-Ray, a DVD, and a digital copy...

As for rentals, Redbox and Netflix offer Blu-Ray rental at great pricing. Better quality for a cheaper price? I will take it.

As for digital, there has been improvement along the way. Vudu HDX actually looks and sounds pretty good, but it is very pricey to rent from and Blu-Ray still offers better overall PQ and AQ for a much cheaper rental price.

I actually thought about this a lot this year and decided to continue to build my Blu-Ray library as I don't see digital matching or exceeding Blu-Ray qualiity anytime soon. For many of these movies this may be the best they look and sound, and have special features in my lifetime.

Ultraviolet shows promise but still lacks support from Disney and, more importantly, Apple, and the service is still fragmented and difficult to navigate.

I just don't see any scenario where optical disc is dead in less than 5 years. 10 years? Maybe, but that is probably a stretch too.

Oh, and one more thing. Per Nielsenscan only 2% of viewing in the home in 2011 is done via the Internet.... 2% folks...

http://www.internetvideoarchive.com/IVA/blog/all-categories/research/2012/05/15/tv-viewing-habits-according-to-nielsen
post #177 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Impressive....but is it LOSSLESS?

In a blind test do you really believe you could tell the difference?
post #178 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

DVD IS dying. It's total sales revenue has fallen every year since 2006. But notice the key word is "dying" and not . . . "dead." Many confuse the two.

Pegged that one
post #179 of 1422
Is everyone aware that there is no First Sale Doctrine rule on digital like there is on optical disc?

And don't the studios just LOVE that.
post #180 of 1422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

If DVD technology vanishes there is more to it done watching movies. If a giant avalanche slides down a mountian more than one tree in the forest is knocked down.
I challenge proponents of "THE DVD IS DEAD" to discuss the impact "streaming only" has on businesses (all categories), industry (all industry), public / private institutions, governmental operations, political, individuals, economic (public & private), worldwide paradyme shift, learning curve, Internet accessibility, medical, mobility.
Also discuss the impact of a DVD niche market considering all of the above.
Hope you are up to this challenge. eek.gif

This can be answered pretty easily. Jump in your wayback machine and watch what happened when we shifted from VHS to DVD. The overall impact to everything you're asking about would hardly register as a blip on the economic radar.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home