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The DVD Is Dying - Page 3

post #61 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Movies?
It's all about writing....wink.gif
Absolutely. I will watch a movie on DVD if the BD isn't available. Scalers are so good on players anymore it doesn't matter that much. If the writing is bad then HD isn't going to help. One thing I am religious on is OAR. VHS: mostly P&S so not a good format. LD still had too many titles in P&S. DVD studios started giving the consumer a preference though these days they may just stick with OAR to avoid extra costs. BD mostly all OAR. Sound I'm not so particular because I've mixed sound and even 5.1 and realize that a lot of studios just do some computer enhanced 5.1 to a stereo track. Sometimes on indy films that may be why the first audio option is stereo and the second 5.1. The latter takes more work and if the budget for it is there and the sound people really good well worth it.
post #62 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby94928 View Post

I've got 2 HD sets in my living room and family room and one 32" SD set in my bedroom. It doesn't get a lot of use, so, until it dies, I don't it getting scrapped soon.
I get rid of my old tech boxes by donating to a legit charity and write it off on taxes.
It's easy to do and financially prudent IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Maybe, but since this isn't the future, what do you do in the meantime ?
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

I will watch a movie on DVD if the BD isn't available. If the writing is bad then HD isn't going to help. One thing I am religious on is OAR.
Same here.

Quote:
Sound I'm not so particular.
Since BD has come out, I have become addicted to lossless.
Lossless is mandatory for me to buy any BD.

However, lossy tracks on older DVDs don't bother me at all.
post #63 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

DVD was introduced in 1997 (in North America), and overtook VHS sometime around 2006, so 8-9 years is about right.

Not . . . it is not right. DVD started to outsell VHS in 2002. By 2006, Hollywood wasn't even selling new release VHS movies anymore.
Quote:
Also, remember, DVD didn't fight a bitter format war for two years on its introduction (the fiasco that was Circuit City's DIVX doesn't count. tongue.gif )

Why wouldn't the DIVX format war count? DVD wasn't backed by all studios on it's introduction. Nor was DVD introduced USA wide nor world wide like the HD formats were. DVD was introduced in stages. And without a built in rental program like BBi. That didn't come until years later.
post #64 of 1422
I remember that when the Great Format War was raging, I didn't care who won so long as somebody did. It finally happened, at which point I happily bought a BD player and have never looked back. As others have observed, though, the long running battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray delayed Blu-ray's ability to start making real inroads in the disc market for about two years. With HDTVs having largely supplanted SDTVs, in larger sizes at least, I believe that we are going to see BDs steadily increasing their market share and gradually supplanting DVDs altogether.

Although I recognize that at some point in the future technological advances will make practical the streaming of HD video and lossless audio, it hasn't happened yet and, indeed, does not appear likely to happen in the foreseeable future.
post #65 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I remember that when the Great Format War was raging, I didn't care who won so long as somebody did. It finally happened, at which point I happily bought a BD player and have never looked back. As others have observed, though, the long running battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray delayed Blu-ray's ability to start making real inroads in the disc market for about two years. With HDTVs having largely supplanted SDTVs, in larger sizes at least, I believe that we are going to see BDs steadily increasing their market share and gradually supplanting DVDs altogether.
Although I recognize that at some point in the future technological advances will make practical the streaming of HD video and lossless audio, it hasn't happened yet and, indeed, does not appear likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

And I don't know about you guys in the States, but here in Montreal it can cost a fortune when it comes to extra bandwidth. DVD may be dying but "physical media" I'm not sure. Not yet at least it's much too soon imo. Besides, I like making custom Blu-ray covers goddammit! biggrin.gifwink.gif
post #66 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

The "average man" in terms of HT enthusiasts, or in terms of the masses? Because the masses would love to stream instead of going out and getting (or waiting for) physical discs. Anything that would obviate the need from them getting out of their Laz-E-Boys they're A-Okay with.

I'd say that's absolutely correct ..

I'll add that VUDU HDX is pretty darn good on the stream .. so the tech is out there to deliver what 90% or more (even videophiles) would find acceptable ..

Bandwidth is the issue ..

Someone should come up with a ZIPPED format when uncompressed would be full BD SQ and PQ .. you'd then have a player that would uncompress and play .. and could be deliverable to SD or USB drive ..
post #67 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I remember that when the Great Format War was raging, I didn't care who won so long as somebody did. It finally happened, at which point I happily bought a BD player and have never looked back. As others have observed, though, the long running battle between HD DVD and Blu-ray delayed Blu-ray's ability to start making real inroads in the disc market for about two years. With HDTVs having largely supplanted SDTVs, in larger sizes at least, I believe that we are going to see BDs steadily increasing their market share and gradually supplanting DVDs altogether.
Although I recognize that at some point in the future technological advances will make practical the streaming of HD video and lossless audio, it hasn't happened yet and, indeed, does not appear likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

High quality HD streaming is just around the corner with the new video compression codec H.265.
post #68 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Not . . . it is not right. DVD started to outsell VHS in 2002. By 2006, Hollywood wasn't even selling new release VHS movies anymore.

Was that it? Must have had my dates wrong.

Quote:
Why wouldn't the DIVX format war count?

Because DIVX was DOA and was never a serious threat. Might as well have said CED was in a format war with videotape. Everyone I knew who used DIVX HATED it. Circuit City was all too happy to bury any mention of it when it finally bit the dust.

DVD had almost no serious rivalry other than the pre-existing VHS market (in which it had advantages over every element except recording) and that contributed to its meteoric rise in adoption. Blu-ray had a near-clone rival in HD-DVD, and I remember a lot of people who were not HT enthusiasts were really bitter over the prospect of buying a "doomed format" (which turned out to be HD-DVD, but it could have been Blu-ray just as easily.) Even DVD being adopted in drips and drabs by the studio was still no serious impediment that the HD formats experienced.

Everyone who saw a DVD player in the late 90s wanted one. Badly. They did what it took to buy one. HD formats haven't seen that, except maybe the HD-DVR.
Edited by Tulpa - 8/29/12 at 1:35pm
post #69 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

Although I recognize that at some point in the future technological advances will make practical the streaming of HD video and lossless audio, it hasn't happened yet and, indeed, does not appear likely to happen in the foreseeable future.

Well, the big issue will be will the masses care enough to want lossless audio and full on HD video, or will they find the current streams "good enough."
post #70 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Well, the big issue will be will the masses care enough to want lossless audio and full on HD video, or will they find the current streams "good enough."

Lossless Audio? LOL! That will be an audio format compared to Quad sometime in the future. 6+ years after it's introduction, it is still regulated to only BD. It's a bandwidth hog. Look to Dolby Digital Plus for the future of multichannel audio from sources other than optical disc.

And as I said, consumers are going to getter better HD quality streaming simply by the introduction of H.265.

Videophiles care about pixels and niche audio formats. Mass Market consumers look first at price, then at convinence.
post #71 of 1422
Yeah, people shell out for compressed cable (largely because they can stick umpteen billion channels on it), so I don't see a huge demand for the highest quality.
post #72 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post

Well, the big issue will be will the masses care enough to want lossless audio and full on HD video, or will they find the current streams "good enough."

I'm pretty sure we all know the answer to that ..
post #73 of 1422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Lossless Audio? LOL! That will be an audio format compared to Quad sometime in the future. 6+ years after it's introduction, it is still regulated to only BD. It's a bandwidth hog. Look to Dolby Digital Plus for the future of multichannel audio from sources other than optical disc.
And as I said, consumers are going to getter better HD quality streaming simply by the introduction of H.265.
Videophiles care about pixels and niche audio formats. Mass Market consumers look first at price, then at convinence.

This is now the third time in this topic that you've taken the words out of my mouth. Physical media isn't going away completely, but it will be a niche market. Average consumers don't care about having the best picture quality or perfect sound.
post #74 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

What reason is there to think that Blu-ray will be the "endgame" and give you a lifetime archival copy of your favorite movies?
confused.gif
Why would I not be able to view my Blu-Ray copy of my favorite movie during my lifetime?
post #75 of 1422
The world does not revolve around what the members of AVS nor what other AV enthusiasts foretell. To think that "EVERYONE" will purchase all of the necessary technology, obtain the skills necessary to operated said technology or can afford such is unrealistic. Consider the unemployed, those working but not able to afford such technology, the elderly and those who simply do not buy into change for the sake of big corporate brother. Believe it or not there are far more average folks than AV techies. More to the point, there is much, much more to life than AV. Shocking isn't it!

I can understand those living off of and in their mothers basement believing that "DVD is dead" but the real world is far different than you think. If you don't believe me I suggest you take a trip through these United States. Talk to real people. Go to real homes. Live a week without all of your gagets. For millions upon millions life is not as you may envision. From mega cities to the most rural countryside your vision of AV future may not be quite accurate. In closing, your streaming dream will never be forced thru slick hucksters nor legislation no matter how much you hold your geeky breath.

Most sincerely,
49Merc
Edited by 49Merc - 8/29/12 at 5:13pm
post #76 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morpheo View Post

And I don't know about you guys in the States, but here in Montreal it can cost a fortune when it comes to extra bandwidth.
Actually, it's fairly expensive here too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulpa View Post


Circuit City was all too happy to bury any mention of it when it finally bit the dust.
They had to book a $100 million loss for their little DIVX foray, and it figured heavily in bankrupting the company.

Quote:
DVD had almost no serious rivalry other than the pre-existing VHS market (in which it had advantages over every element except recording) and that contributed to its meteoric rise in adoption. Blu-ray had a near-clone rival in HD-DVD, and I remember a lot of people who were not HT enthusiasts were really bitter over the prospect of buying a "doomed format" (which turned out to be HD-DVD, but it could have been Blu-ray just as easily.) Even DVD being adopted in drips and drabs by the studio was still no serious impediment that the HD formats experienced.
DIVX did add confusion in the marketplace, I recall talking to the "confused" at the time.

Quote:
Everyone who saw a DVD player in the late 90s wanted one. Badly. They did what it took to buy one.
Yep....remember the astonished "They can put an entire movies on CD now?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

The world does not revolve around what the members of AVS nor what other AV enthusiasts foretell.
But it should.....biggrin.gif

Quote:
To think that "EVERYONE" will purchase all of the necessary technology, obtain the skills necessary to operated said technology or can afford such is unrealistic. Consider the unemployed, those working but not able to afford such technology, the elderly and those who simply do not buy into change for the sake of big corporate brother. Believe it or not there are far more average folks than AV techies. More to the point, there is much, much more to life than AV. Shocking isn't it!
I can understand those living off of and in their mothers basement believing that "DVD is dead" but the real world is far different than you think. If you don't believe me I suggest you take a trip through these United States. Talk to real people. Go to real homes. Live a week without all of your gagets. For millions upon millions life is not as you may envision. From mega cities to the most rural countryside your vision of AV future may not be quite accurate. In closing, your streaming dream will never be forced thru slick hucksters nor legislation no matter how much you hold your geeky breath.
Most sincerely,
49Merc
Man, I hate it when someone brings our discussions back to reality.wink.gif
post #77 of 1422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post

The world does not revolve around what the members of AVS nor what other AV enthusiasts foretell. To think that "EVERYONE" will purchase all of the necessary technology, obtain the skills necessary to operated said technology or can afford such is unrealistic. Consider the unemployed, those working but not able to afford such technology, the elderly and those who simply do not buy into change for the sake of big corporate brother. Believe it or not there are far more average folks than AV techies. More to the point, there is much, much more to life than AV. Shocking isn't it!
I can understand those living off of and in their mothers basement believing that "DVD is dead" but the real world is far different than you think. If you don't believe me I suggest you take a trip through these United States. Talk to real people. Go to real homes. Live a week without all of your gagets. For millions upon millions life is not as you may envision. From mega cities to the most rural countryside your vision of AV future may not be quite accurate. In closing, your streaming dream will never be forced thru slick hucksters nor legislation no matter how much you hold your geeky breath.
Most sincerely,
49Merc

The data and market trends contradict your statement vehemently. The market share for Blu Ray is growing, but the per year growth is slowing. The Blu Ray market is maturing - and at a young age to boot. The demand for Blu Ray is getting smaller, while the demand for streaming media is increasing. Revenue from streaming media is expected to overtake the revenue from Blu Rays by 2016, according to forecasting done by PricewaterhouseCooper. There's a post on page two of this topic that shows the trending, in case you missed it.

I do agree with one part of your post, though.
Quote:
The world does not revolve around what the members of AVS nor what other AV enthusiasts foretell.

You're exactly right. Every member of this forum and AV enthusiasts the world over will always prefer physical media. We demand the best and streaming doesn't provide that. However, the average consumer does not demand the best and AVS users do not represent the average Blu Ray consumer. If you really were to "take a trip through these United States, talk to real people, go to real homes [sic]," as you put it - they would prefer convenience over quality so they don't have to leave their mother's basement to purchase their movies. The data supports it. The trending supports it. Physical media will be a niche market. The upside? Less demand will lead to a decrease in price. A win for everyone here.

As for the "millions upon millions" that do not have the life we envision, 77% of them (as of June, 2010) use the internet, therefore, can stream media, and that ratio is increasing every year.
post #78 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

For the same reason you're not viewing all those VHS and DVDs you bought anymore.
But I do watch those DVDs I bought.
post #79 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

And what do you when the Blu-ray comes out? Keep watching your inferior copy? If so you are not the typical AV enthusiast we are talking about.

Who represents about 1% of the total home video market.
post #80 of 1422
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Who represents about 1% of the total home video market.

Actually, we are talking about non-enthusiasts, or the average consumer.
post #81 of 1422
DVD IS dying. It's total sales revenue has fallen every year since 2006. But notice the key word is "dying" and not . . . "dead." Many confuse the two.
post #82 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by rliebherr View Post

Actually, we are talking about non-enthusiasts, or the average consumer.

Well . . . that is what I figured, which of course represents the biggest portion of the market by far. Almost all of it in fact.
post #83 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

My point was there is no point in buying movies anymore because we know there is always something better around the corner.

Streaming doesn't have everything yet. In fact, blu-ray doesn't have everything yet. So I do own a number of DVDs (and even VHS tapes, gasp! Though only a couple.) Content is king with me, and if all of what I wanted was on streaming, sure, I'd go that way, but it's not, so I do the next best thing and get the devices that can handle all of the media I use, which turns out to be just about everything.

There's no "inferior" copy if it's not available on the "superior" formats.
post #84 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Why buy Lawrence of Arabia in 1080p for $70? Are you really going to watch it enough times to justify that price before the inevitable 4k version comes out? Wouldn't it be better to rent it the few times you want to watch it? That's something that will be made easier by streaming.

Picking a $70 movie as your example is hardly fair, seeing as the majority of blu-rays are now at a fairly reasonable $10-$15 or so, and can be had for cheaper in many cases (especially on the used market, where there are a surprising number of pristine items.) To have a few favorites constantly available is hardly a ripoff, seeing as the rental prices for VUDU, Blockbuster, etc, were/are about the same for a couple of viewings. Netflix streaming has interesting stuff (I like that I don't have to buy Breaking Bad's previous seasons), but it's definitely not a comprehensive catalog (especially for newer stuff.) Redbox is great for low budget horror and some current big movies, but not much else, and its Blu offerings are still pretty meager. Netflix DVD has a good catalog of DVDs, but you have to wait, or get a multi-disc plan that adds up.

It all comes down to what any given person finds reasonable. Renting and streaming do not cover everything, and believe me, I've looked into it. There are just some movies that if I want it, I have to buy the disc. If the stream is there, fine, I'll use it, but it's not always there.

I don't doubt that streaming is the future, but owning physical media hasn't reached the "pointless" part yet, unless all that you watch is on streams (to which I say, good for you, want a cookie?)

(Oh, and good job picking a movie that took six years to come out on Blu. I guess waiting another six years for the 4k version will fly right on by. tongue.gif )
Edited by Tulpa - 8/29/12 at 8:20pm
post #85 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Why buy Lawrence of Arabia in 1080p for $70?

Because it will look great in the film library I have built consisting of almost 1650 Blu-rays, HD DVD's and DVDs.

Because it is one of the greatest films of all-time.

Because I am the type of person who is so passionate about movies, he wants the best possible rendition of a film that he can play in his home theater.

Because I like watching special features and enjoy a good audio commentary, and these NEVER get streamed.

Because watching great cinema is one of the great pleasures of my life.

Because it's my money and not yours. Why should I care if you think it's a waste of money? If you think it's a waste of money, don't buy it. Personally, I have been waiting for the moment I can buy Lawrence of Arabia in High Definition ever since HD became a home theater format.

It will be YEARS before streamed movies will be able to equal or exceed Blu-ray quality. Until then, I will buy, buy, buy and buy Blu-ray.
post #86 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamian View Post

confused.gif
Why would I not be able to view my Blu-Ray copy of my favorite movie during my lifetime?

For the same reason you're not viewing all those VHS and DVDs you bought anymore.

Well my VHS died but I still have some tapes. I still watch my DVDs but I usually prefer the BluRay, but that depends on the particular job done too. I still have LPs and a turntable. Threw out almost all my cassettes and the only working player I have is in one of my vehicles (naturally the older one). Do have lots of cd's and mini-discs, too. smile.gif I do stream some content on a copper wire into my home then wifi in the home, and even get some on the satellite. Have HD flat panels now, but not that long ago was still happy with my Trinitron. Have I left anything out? Oh, yeah, I still have all my books and read them once in a while. smile.gif

Great thread, think about this stuff all the time. I'm still resisting smart phones, pad do-hickeys, texting and tweeting. I don't particularly want to carry a phone around let alone answer it when it bleats its pathetic "ring tone" let alone listen to music on it or watch a movie on it. I do watch my favorite films many times, and wouldn't relish having to pay for bandwidth each time, I'd rather just use what I've got even if it's an old format. Kinda wasteful environmentally to own all these various electronic components and discs of various kinds, but so is the oil-fueled power plants driving server farms. I am an equipment junky when it comes to my bikes and audio/visual gear (lately revived interest for the latter matched by a curious decline in the former....but I am getting old). At least folk on this forum understand somewhat, most of my friends could care less about the highest quality level thing...
Edited by lovinthehd - 8/29/12 at 10:17pm
post #87 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilgore View Post

It will be YEARS before streamed movies will be able to equal or exceed Blu-ray quality. Until then, I will buy, buy, buy and buy Blu-ray.

Hate to sound like a broken record, but . . . it will not be YEARS. It is coming soon. As early as next year due to the new codec H.265.
post #88 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

I'm not even talking about streaming per se. I'm talking about OWNING physical copies of movies. Its completely pointless. And the studios love it because they make tons of money on it.

They will always make tons of money on whatever format or media can sell because that's what they do. But about "owning physical copies of movies", there are simply people who like to collect these things, like you know, a hobby. I'm one of those weirdos I just like "owning" this stuff, I can't help it. Most importantly I love movies and having the opportunity to watch them and their extras whenever I want ; it could be argued that streaming does the same but I like looking at my shelves and make my choice. I'm not alone and the studios know it quite well. So it's not pointless, it just is, even if to you it sounds pointless. wink.gif
Edited by Morpheo - 8/30/12 at 4:57am
post #89 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Hate to sound like a broken record, but . . . it will not be YEARS. It is coming soon. As early as next year due to the new codec H.265.

And the Blu-ray disc association is probably looking at it as well... So as streaming solutions improve, so is Blu-ray I guess... Which is why I still believe physical media is here to stay, at least for a little while... If they can stick the 6 Star Wars movies on a single disc with an image equal or better than what we have now, I bet they will and we'll buy it again. Or the LOTR trilogy, or TV shows (like 2 discs for a complete season in high definition, yes please!), or the 18 cuts of Blade Runner etc, you get my idea wink.gif
post #90 of 1422
Quote:
Originally Posted by benes View Post

Actually *I* was talking about enthusiasts who always demand the best quality.tongue.gif My point was there is no point in buying movies anymore because we know there is always something better around the corner.

Now ths I don't agree with. Although I don't buy as many discs anymore, I do buy them. Then they are mine. Therefore, I do not have to pay to watch them again. Plus I can watch them at my pace, stop them, rewind them and even look at the extras if I so choose.

None of which, as has been pointed out earlier, is likely to come to streaming any time soon.

And that h.265 codedc that Lee Stewart is still trying to sell us, isn't out yet and hasn't, yet, had any impact in the bandwidth used to stream HD Lite content. Until this codec saves the world and cleans up the oceans, streaming sucks and BD will still be the best format for the best quality image and sound (accepting that studios like to screw up their own content on their own).

One other thing, as alluded to above. When I buy a disc, I pay for it once. I can watch it as many times as I like for the same price. When I stream a film (something I hope never to do), I pay for it every time. So unless that film is a dollar (pound w/e), I end up paying more. Now, some films I've watched only once and some films I've watched many times. Nice money maker there, and not in our best interests...

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