Infinity Primus PS410 vs BIC F12

Hi, I need to replace a JBL SUB12 which started popping like mad even on medium volume.

This is intended for a home theater in an average size living room, partnered with "small" speakers.

My budget is $200 to $300, and I think I want either an Infinity Primus PS410 or BIC F12. Any advice here? Which might be more reliable? Reliability is very important because I've had terrible luck with subwoofer reliability for some reason, from both Yamaha and now JBL.

Clarity is very important, I hate muddy bass, and I don't listen to movies at super loud volumes... but I still want some chest thumping potential. I have wood floor with no carpet over a crawlspace, FYI. I never ran my SUB12 at much more than half volume. So I'm not sure if I need a 12" again or can go with the 10" Infinity.

Thanks for any ideas....
Edited by Flavius - 8/26/12 at 1:53am

Thanks for the feedback... a bit late, but better than never. I ended up buying an Energy EWS-M8. Quite wonderful, but having second thoughts. Going from a boxy 12" to this tiny thng.... even though it can go low and sounds great with music... well it just doesn't sound... BIG enough with movie sound effects. It sounds like a loud, very deep, but tiny box, if you know what I mean. So tomorrow I'm getting the BIC F12 in the mail to do a comparison. Only way I'll be satisfied that I made the right choice, even though I hate returning non-defective products.

I wanted to try fancy brands like HSU or SVS... but couldn't find any place with a return policy like Amazon's so selection was limited. Also wanted to try Yamaha again to match my speakers and receiver, but my last Yamaha sub blew after less than 4 years, and there are many reliability complaints.

My lord, what a piece of junk the BIC F12 is compared to the Energy EWS-M8! All it has going for it is volume, and the ability to go slighty deeper. Otherwise its a muddy, bloated, inaccurate farce.

The EWS-M8 is very tight, fast, and accurate, and its not even "broken in" yet. I bought the BIC F12 thinking I needed a bit more "presence" that a big 12" would bring to movie sound effects compared to the tiny 8" sub. Yes, the BIC F12 is as loud as I can tolerate and will rattle my house at 40% volume. But then I just decided to be a little daring and turn my EWS-M8 up to 75% volume instead of 50%. It matched the volume of the BIC F12, but WITHOUT sounding like a flabby bloated muddy mess. Both subs were tested with 120Hz crossover on a new Yamaha receiver.

The best example of this I found was the Ferry scene from War of the Worlds with the alien "horn" sounds. On the BIC F12, they sounded flat, dull, lifeless. On the EWS-M8... they sounded TERRIFYING as intended. My wife thought so too. Everything else I threw at it, the EWS-M8 just sounded way more accurate and controlled.

Music was no contest. The EWS-M8 is far more musical. The EWS-M8 also mixed in much better with my Yamaha bookshelf speakers, sonically. Now I see why the "suggested" retail price for the EWS-M8 is $800 (I got it for $300). The thing is bloody amazing for a 9" square box. The BIC F12 does win by a hair with the depth charges in U-571, but only because it can go a little lower in Hz. Every other movie sound effect or music, the Energy just wipes the floor with it, for 1/4 the size, half the weight, and only 1/3 more price.

I am never buying a bass reflex sub with an open port EVER again. Volume is all they have going for them.

Same location, yes. Calibration... not if you mean Audyssey. Only an attempt to match levels using my receiver's microphone YPAO function.

I don't think you understand. I put the subs on maximum crossover because I was using LFE, as universally accepted. The max crossover position is indicated in the Energy manual for LFE since receiver controls it, and in the BIC manual it says setting the Digital setting on the rocker switch (which is what I used and what is indicated for LFE) disables the crossover knob entirely. I only set it to max for consistency with the Energy. Now if you're talking about the differences in the volume knob, these had to be set differently in order to balance the sound power/volume coming from an 8" sub vs a 12" sub with very different power characteristics. The only "problem" would have been if I had left both subs at the exact same volume mark. The way I arrived at 75% vs 45% volume (with receiver at 0.0dB) was based on the sound and feel of certain famous movie scenes (U571 depth charges, War of the Worlds aliens, Gladiator catapults), which I am very familiar with.
The volume settings resulted in the loudness and physical feel of the sound being roughly the same. I arrived at 75% on Energy because this was the loudest bass I thought was comfortable yet impactful enough in my home theater with overall volume set such that the sats were delivering plenty of volume and sounded balanced.

It is under the above circumstances that the Energy had the far better sound characteristics that I described. I'm sorry, but muddy, bloated bass, turned up even louder, is not going to magically start sounding cleaner.

And there reason to be amazed at the difference has nothing to do with cost, it has more to do with a 8" sub in a 9" square box, vs a 12" sub in a 18" square box (roughly). I EXPECTED the bigger sub to sound better. Well, contrary to popular belief, I have realized that bigger in the subwoofer world does not automatically mean better. And while there are differences between the PL-200 and F12 many reviews have not called them significant, so I doubt my opinion would change.