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Cutting the Cord! HTPC Setup - will this work?

post #1 of 27
8/26/12 at 9:52am
Thread Starter 
Here is my situation:

Background: I currently have DishNetwork with 2 dvr receivers (one in the living room and one in my daughter's playroom). I wan to get rid of satelite to save money and instead install an HD OTA antenna in the attic, and use my current desktop pc in my office to stream to the other 2 tvs. I would like to on occasion have the option to play games, but not a high priority

Plan of action:

I do not wish to purchase/build another pc to place in the living room due to size and money. I am going to use the pc I have in my office as my htpc and stream to my television in my living room via hdmi cable and set as "second monitor". I plan to run XBMC on my desktop to view on my television in my living room. I plan to use an Apple TV2 (jailbroken w/ XBMC installed) in the playroom connected to my network, to provide video, etc. to that TV. I plan to supplement with netflix as well. My desktop is a Dell Studio XPS 435MT with the following specs:

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz [QuadCore Intel Core i7-920, 2800 MHz (21 x 133)]
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512 MB)
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-BIT
Memory: 8 GB

Here is what I plan to do:
1. Upgrade my video card (so as to have better video capabilities as well as hdmi output) $50 @ newegg, $25 if rebate works
ZOTAC GeForce GT 520 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 (810MHz/1333 MHz)
(note: great reviews, and will work with my existing 300 W power supply)

2. Network Hard Drive $130
Iomega 1TB Home Media Network Hard Drive, Cloud Edition $130 @ bhphotovideo
(note: opened pc and the available slot for additional hdd is quite tight due to graphics card location so this made more sense)

3. TV Tuner for PC $130 @ newegg
HDHomeRun DUAL - High Definition Digital TV Tuner (Network Attached) HDHR3-US (Black) by SiliconDust

4. Media box for playroom (using XBMC) $100 @ apple
Apple TV 2 jailbroken and XBMC installed and connected to home network
(note: my daughter has a ton of dvds and placing them on the network would be great in lieu of using a dvd player each time)

5. HDMI Cable $40 @ monoprice
50 ft of hdmi cable to run video/audio to my living room television from my pc located in my office

6. HD Antenna $70 @ solidsignal
HD OTA antenna to be installed in my attic and connect to pc in office
(Antenna Direct DB4E $50, Wineguard DS-3000 J-mount $20 to connect to rafters in attic and turn for direction)

Total is 480 or approximately $500

Feedback on this is much appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2 of 27
8/26/12 at 10:22am
That video card is too weak.

GT430 is better.

Skip the AppleTV. Wait for the Echo or use an xBox360.

You can get 3TB for $120~$130. You'll need it to rip DVD's to the network.

You'll need a repeater/extender for a 50' HDMI run. Search monoprice. Should be under $20.
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post #3 of 27
8/26/12 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletons11 View Post

Here is my situation:
Background: I currently have DishNetwork with 2 dvr receivers (one in the living room and one in my daughter's playroom). I wan to get rid of satelite to save money and instead install an HD OTA antenna in the attic, and use my current desktop pc in my office to stream to the other 2 tvs. I would like to on occasion have the option to play games, but not a high priority
Plan of action:
I do not wish to purchase/build another pc to place in the living room due to size and money. I am going to use the pc I have in my office as my htpc and stream to my television in my living room via hdmi cable and set as "second monitor". I plan to run XBMC on my desktop to view on my television in my living room. I plan to use an Apple TV2 (jailbroken w/ XBMC installed) in the playroom connected to my network, to provide video, etc. to that TV. I plan to supplement with netflix as well. My desktop is a Dell Studio XPS 435MT with the following specs:
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 920 @ 2.67GHz [QuadCore Intel Core i7-920, 2800 MHz (21 x 133)]
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon HD 4850 (512 MB)
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64-BIT
Memory: 8 GB
Here is what I plan to do:
1. Upgrade my video card (so as to have better video capabilities as well as hdmi output) $50 @ newegg, $25 if rebate works
ZOTAC GeForce GT 520 512MB 64-bit GDDR3 (810MHz/1333 MHz)
(note: great reviews, and will work with my existing 300 W power supply)
2. Network Hard Drive $130
Iomega 1TB Home Media Network Hard Drive, Cloud Edition $130 @ bhphotovideo
(note: opened pc and the available slot for additional hdd is quite tight due to graphics card location so this made more sense)
3. TV Tuner for PC $130 @ newegg
HDHomeRun DUAL - High Definition Digital TV Tuner (Network Attached) HDHR3-US (Black) by SiliconDust
4. Media box for playroom (using XBMC) $100 @ apple
Apple TV 2 jailbroken and XBMC installed and connected to home network
(note: my daughter has a ton of dvds and placing them on the network would be great in lieu of using a dvd player each time)
5. HDMI Cable $40 @ monoprice
50 ft of hdmi cable to run video/audio to my living room television from my pc located in my office
6. HD Antenna $70 @ solidsignal
HD OTA antenna to be installed in my attic and connect to pc in office
(Antenna Direct DB4E $50, Wineguard DS-3000 J-mount $20 to connect to rafters in attic and turn for direction)
Total is 480 or approximately $500
Feedback on this is much appreciated.
Thanks

Sounds solid.

I'm not sure if in the latest Eden release, it fully supports PVR. In addition, you'll want to be sure your specific tuner hardware is compatible with the tuning back-end.

Something else to mention:

You can turn your HTPC into a fully functional PVR with the combination of: Sickbeard + SABNZBD + NZB files. It'll find missing shows and download them automatically. Including new epsiodes, just like a PVR. If you go this way, you won't even need a TV tuner card. The only thing this option cannot do, is watch live TV broadcasts.
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post #4 of 27
8/26/12 at 11:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
That video card is too weak.

GT430 is better.

Thanks for the heads up - on newegg it is discontinued but on zotac's website it is still available and I can see where the specs are better on the GT430, but it is $10 more - not a problem.
Quote:
Skip the AppleTV. Wait for the Echo or use an xBox360.

A refurbished xbox360 is much more expensive than a an APTV2 - I am sure the echo would be quite expensive as well, but I could hold off.
Quote:
You can get 3TB for $120~$130.

How do I do that? I agree that having the 3TB would be much better but how do I accomplish this for that price?



Quote:
You can turn your HTPC into a fully functional PVR with the combination of: Sickbeard + SABNZBD + NZB files.

I believe that Sickbeard uses a Usenet - I do not want to go the illegal route if I can help it, for ethical reasons.
Quote:
you'll want to be sure your specific tuner hardware is compatible with the tuning back-end.

I am not sure what tuning back-end means - but I believe that the HDhomerun tv tuner has software that will record or at least integrate with WMC to do so and then I could save to my network hdd and access through it if necessary. It that a correct way of thinking?
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post #5 of 27
8/26/12 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletons11 View Post

I am not sure what tuning back-end means - but I believe that the HDhomerun tv tuner has software that will record or at least integrate with WMC to do so and then I could save to my network hdd and access through it if necessary. It that a correct way of thinking?

When you purchase a TV tuner, you receive only the tuner hardware and drivers for the device.

You still need software to change the channels, download the guide, control the recording functionality.

Windows Media Center is the most common way people do this. It's the "back end" and often the "front end" to many people's HTPC TV tuning.

When shopping for a TV Tuner, and it says "works with Windows Media Center" this is what they're referring to.

If you don't want to use WMC, and instead want to use another program (Media Portal, XBMC, etc) the question becomes... What software are you going to use to interface with the tuner?

I know there were some real band-aid solutions in the previous version of XBMC (Dharma). Where you'd use another software program entirely JUST for the tuning part, and run XBMC on top of it. I didn't like it, and it certainly wasn't plug-and-play like the rest of XBMC. It's been a year since I've done all the research on this, and I am no longer trying to get the Tuner to work (I have an Avermedia Duet collecting dust), so I've kind of given up on it for now. Then again, there's a new version of XBMC (Eden), perhaps it addresses the issue. You'll just want to be sure to look into it.
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post #6 of 27
8/26/12 at 1:21pm
While in theory, what your propose is doable, I hope you realize the setup is not going to be that simple (definitely NOT plug and play) . It will require quite a bit of tinkering. XBMC is great but TV is not its strong point, at least for now even with Eden (you will soon have to learn what a backend is and how to set it up not to mention how to setup and automate guide download). There is talk that the next full release (next year) will simply the TV module but we will see. WMC is much better for TV (easier to setup) but compatibility with other devices is a problem (it will not work with apple tv or any other device outside an xbox). Also how do you plan on controlling all of this. While remotes have come a long way they are still not plug and play. I don't mean to be so negative but I hope you realize that you got a lot of work ahead of you.
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post #7 of 27
8/26/12 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zagor View Post

While in theory, what your propose is doable, I hope you realize the setup is not going to be that simple (definitely NOT plug and play) . It will require quite a bit of tinkering. XBMC is great but TV is not its strong point, at least for now even with Eden (you will soon have to learn what a backend is and how to set it up not to mention how to setup and automate guide download). There is talk that the next full release (next year) will simply the TV module but we will see. WMC is much better for TV (easier to setup) but compatibility with other devices is a problem (it will not work with apple tv or any other device outside an xbox). Also how do you plan on controlling all of this. While remotes have come a long way they are still not plug and play. I don't mean to be so negative but I hope you realize that you got a lot of work ahead of you.

Thanks for the feedback - I understand that it is going to take some tinkering, and I am okay with that to an extent - my wife on the other hand is NOT.

Any advice on a better setup given my needs?
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post #8 of 27
8/26/12 at 3:13pm
3TB for $130 at Tiger Direct
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post #9 of 27
8/26/12 at 4:24pm
I would test it with your current video card. I'm assuming it is integrated in the motherboard. For htpc purposes, you don't reaaly need tgat powerful, and most newer PCs have enough to handle 1080 video. I use a late 2009 Mac Mini that has a NVidia 9400M integrated card and does 1080p with no problems. This assumes you will ztill be able to connect to your tv. If you have dvi, and it puts out a digital signal, you can a cheap dvi to hdmi adapter. Vga is analog and the proper converters are $200 or more.

The antenna, you my want to see what antennaweb suggests. You may be able to use a cheaper and less sophisticated. You may be able to use some $5 antenna near the window.

I would suggest checking out a Roku box instead of AppleTV. I'm assuming you don't already have it. From a quick google search, i did not see any xbmc integration for roku. You could run Plex which does. Some poem ke run both xbmc and plex because they prefer xbmc but liked plex's streaming capabilities to other devices such as roku or smartphones. I did this for a while till plex released the windows front end.

There are not many options in regards to set top boxes and being able to play dvr/pvr recordings, eslecially with Media Center. You may want to find some software that will convert the recordings to something like mpg4. Notvery WAF. I'm not aware of xbmc or plex having native support. Never mind the file names are scraper friendly.

An interesting alternative to both is the raspberry pi. There is xbmc firmware for it. Will have issue with pvr recordings.

On a side note, assuming you're running windows, you can set media center to automatically start. If your pc is close eniugh, you could get a windows friendly blue tooth remote. That would help with WAF for the living room. Otherwise you could get an infrared blaster. Having to go into the office to change movies will get old fast. I personally use a logitech dinovo mini, but i have pc connected to my tv and use it like any other pc; it's got a reaaly big display. Then again, i do stuff that is not 10' friendly.

Also, the HDHR3 can be had for under $100 from both amazon and newegg.
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post #10 of 27
8/26/12 at 4:26pm
I have HDHR (both the atsc/clear qam and the cable card versions). Using that on xbmc is, as others have mentioned, not quite plug N play. WMC (after initial setup) works very well with it. For live tv including tv guide would recommend that. You still need internet connection. Look into verizion fios or other fiber options. They are required to carry local channels, however OTA rooftop antenna would still give you a better picture.

HDHR will send the tv channels via ethernet. If you can get ethernet connections between the display units and an inexpensive display device you're set. While I do have xbox 360, I seldom use it and prefer a pc plugged into the display device as this provides significant flexibility.
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post #11 of 27
8/26/12 at 6:46pm
Thread Starter 
I have a ps3 but of course you cannot use xbmc on it. I have used PS Media Server but it is pretty blah which I can see that plex is about the same - nothing like the xbmc interface.

Could you suggest a good cost conscious nettop to use as an htpc instead of having to use my desktop and set as a second monitor option.

Why not use the APTV2 jailbroken to use on the playroom tv? Does it not work well?
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post #12 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletons11 View Post

I have a ps3 but of course you cannot use xbmc on it. I have used PS Media Server but it is pretty blah which I can see that plex is about the same - nothing like the xbmc interface.
Could you suggest a good cost conscious nettop to use as an htpc instead of having to use my desktop and set as a second monitor option.
Why not use the APTV2 jailbroken to use on the playroom tv? Does it not work well?

Plex UI is very similar to XBMC, last I tried it. The both use themes which can be changed. XBMC just has way more. I'm a bit surprise to hear Plex is bland like DNLA.

Although a nettop/netbook would work, if you're looking to attach a PC to your TV, and go cheap, why not just get a refurbished PC from one of the PC manufactures. It'll cost about the same, and you won't need to do daul monitors. Just set the TV as the primary. Obviously the smaller the foot print, the more expensive.

Really, from that I can tell, your ticky part is being about to watch DVR recordings from Media Center on other devices other than a PC. Unfortunately, WTV files are limited in what will play them. Never mind that the metadata scrapers don't play nice with the default file naming schemes of Media Center. If it wasn't for that, based on what you plan to do, I would say most set top boxes such as Roku and AppleTV would more than fit your needs. Plex and XBMC on either are fine to played your local media. The only reason I suggested to use something other than AppleTV was more so you don't have to jailbreak it. Although, XBMC does not work with XBMC.

If you really like XBMC, I think Raspberry Pi may be decent alternative.
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post #13 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekeiiy View Post

Plex UI is very similar to XBMC, last I tried it. The both use themes which can be changed. XBMC just has way more. I'm a bit surprise to hear Plex is bland like DNLA.

I'm assuming he was talking about using DLNA on the PS3 with Plex Media Server. In that case it will looks just like PS Media Server.
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post #14 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:39am
I stand corrected, to some degree. I found this thread in the Plex forums: linky/. Apparently Plex can play WTV files. I tested it out and can confirm it does play. I didn't want a whole video or anything.

I tried searching on Google and XBMC for WTV support within XBMC. Going by this thread (linky, on XBMC, it looks like it also supports it. You'll definitely want to do more research on the topic or post the question in their forums. Form your posts, it appears you like XBMC, so it's looks like good news.

The only issue I can really see, especially in the WAF form. I'll probably do more research on how if there is a way to change file naming media center uses that may be more metadata friendly for the scrapers. Here are two screen shots from Plex to see what the scrapers pulled using the TV scrapers.
This is in the media manager on the PC

if you look to the right, you can see some of my DVR recordings in the file directory.

This is on Plex on an Android tablet


I've never recorded Austin City Limits. I'm not even sure I ever seen the show. My recordings were CSI, Tracks Ahread, and some miscellaneous stuff such as Victoria Secret and Christmas specials.

So, at this point, it would appear you would need to manually rename files to something that is scraper friendly. It's an extra step that could get old if you don't plan to keep beyond a one view situation.
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post #15 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:39am
Thread Starter 
Yeah I had thought about purchasing a refurbished desktop to use and was looking at this:

Lenovo Essential H415 3099-XF1 Refurbished Desktop PC - AMD A6-3600 2.1GHz, 6GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, AMD Radeon HD 6530D Graphics, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit for $300

How does this pc look for what I want to accomplish. If I was to perform light gaming (i.e. Modern Warfare, Tiger Woods PGA Tour, Madden, etc.) would this system suffice or would I need to install a different video card?

But did not like the foot print that it presented. I guess that would be the better option though and still use the jailbroken APTV2 for the second TV in the playroom as well as the Seagate 3TB external hard drive for $130

I love the idea of not tying up my desktop pc in my office for watching tv in the living room.
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post #16 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:50am
Thread Starter 
Or how about this one: ThinkCentre M91p Refurbished from Lenovo Outlet for $336

Not sure about the Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator HD for the graphics. The 250 GB hdd does not bother me since I will be using the 3TB external hdd
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post #17 of 27
8/27/12 at 7:52am
From what I can tell, I think it'll work fine. From what I can tell, on Amazon, it has HDMI, so you'll have a nice digital output.

Any PC you find that can run any sort of newer games should have plenty of power to handle video playback on the PC. Video playback is not very demanding when you're talking about MKVs and what not. You need more power for direct blu ray disc playback. The guide I use, minimum requires on a HTPC, non-gaming, dual core 2.0 ghz, 2 GB ram. I forgot on the video card. You can get away with a lot with a wimpy PC in regards to the HTPC. You're demanding apps are the games.

When I talking about refurbs, I was thinking more getting directly from Dell, Leveno, Gateway, Apple and so on. I didn't think of something like TigerDirect. Although, in that route, I would probably go Amazon, Newegg or Buy.com. I've never been a fan of Tiger Direct. Reminds me too much of QVC or SAH.
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post #18 of 27
8/27/12 at 8:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletons11 View Post

Or how about this one: ThinkCentre M91p Refurbished from Lenovo Outlet for $336
Not sure about the Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator HD for the graphics. The 250 GB hdd does not bother me since I will be using the 3TB external hdd

You'll probably want to bump up the ram to 4GB. The no WiFi could be an issue if you're not using a wired ethernet. I think you'll want blu tooth for input controls from the couch, so you'll need to get USB dongle for that.

The USB external HDD is no big deal. I have two connected to my office Mini that I store all my media. I run the Plex media server and do all the dvr recordings in Media Center on that machine. Needless to say, the machine never goes into sleep mode, LOL.

if you want a small foot print, there are options that can be had for $500, give or take. The Mac Mini is an option if you have copy of Windows you can install on it; the OSX disc comes with all the drivers for Windows. Assassin, a forum member, builds machines and has guides. I know there are other PC manufactures who build small foot print machines too.
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post #19 of 27
8/27/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by singletons11 View Post

Thanks for the feedback - I understand that it is going to take some tinkering, and I am okay with that to an extent - my wife on the other hand is NOT.
Any advice on a better setup given my needs?

I think you're asking for something that is very unique.

You plan on using the computer in your office as the HTPC.

AND, you want the TV's to be able to connect to your HTPC in your office.

AND, you want those boxes/tv's to be able to change channels on OTA broadcasts, independently. Like you can do with Satellite Receivers.

Please correct me if I"m wrong...
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post #20 of 27
8/27/12 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lockdown571 View Post

I'm assuming he was talking about using DLNA on the PS3 with Plex Media Server. In that case it will looks just like PS Media Server.

that would make more sense. The DNLA on my Panasonic Plasma for the PMS is basically a file server. Although, it does pull some metadata. It's pretty interesting what it does, but it's not pretty.
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post #21 of 27
8/27/12 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalJason View Post

....AND, you want those boxes/tv's to be able to change channels on OTA broadcasts, independently. Like you can do with Satellite Receivers....

I was presuming you would use the TV for live shows. The Plex and XBMC discussion in regards to WTV files was only about accessing DVR recordings.
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post #22 of 27
8/27/12 at 11:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekeiiy View Post

I was presuming you would use the TV for live shows. The Plex and XBMC discussion in regards to WTV files was only about accessing DVR recordings.

That is correct - would would not expect to change the channels of live television through my pc located in my office.

I think that I am going to go the route of placing a dedicated htpc in my living room close to my television that would be connected to the network via ethernet and use a jailbroke APTV2 connected to the network to access media on the 3TB external hard drive.
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post #23 of 27
8/28/12 at 8:25am
Just have either the HTPC or office PC with media center do the DVR recordings. Then just point, say Plex or XBMC, to your recorded TV directory. You'll probably have to delete the shows from the direct through a file explorer or media center. May be able to through your media client, but I have no idea for sure.

If you do have the PC connected to your TV, technically speaking, you can watch live TV through media center. My old HDTV was so old, it did not have QAM tuners, only NTSF and ATSC. So I literally had watch HDTV through the HTPC once I got rid of the cable box.
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post #24 of 27
8/28/12 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovekeiiy View Post

Just have either the HTPC or office PC with media center do the DVR recordings. Then just point, say Plex or XBMC, to your recorded TV directory. You'll probably have to delete the shows from the direct through a file explorer or media center. May be able to through your media client, but I have no idea for sure

On the HTPC/Server, you can set you file permissions based upon drive, or folder. This way you can delete shows in that directory from any device on your network.

I will say W7 gets a little funny when it comes to file sharing (in general) with another OS. "Homegroup" can really be a pain. If you can, try to run W7 on all your boxes.
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post #25 of 27
8/28/12 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCalJason View Post

...I will say W7 gets a little funny when it comes to file sharing (in general) with another OS. "Homegroup" can really be a pain. If you can, try to run W7 on all your boxes.

It can act a little funny when all the boxes are Win7. Setting up MC to share files nicely can be weird. You have set the home group. Then you have to go into MC settings and setup the sharing. Setting it up where you just tell it where the files are ends up where it won't let you delete. It's so lame. And I forget every time I need to set it up.
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post #26 of 27
8/28/12 at 1:50pm
Thread Starter 
so how about this setup:



I figure I might as well bite the bullet and build my own HTPC - high on my wife's list is for it to look like it fits into the media cabinet and blends in with the other components. I was pretty happy about the lenovo I found refurbished at tigerdirect, but I am a scared to order from them given their large amount of bad feedback on resellerratings.com - I have also never ordered from them, instead all from newegg and bhphotovideo all with great experiences.

I would also plan to purchase the following:

Seagate Expansion 3TB USB 3.0 Black Desktop Hard Drive STBV3000100 $140

Windows 7 Vista XP Media Center MCE PC Remote Control and Infrared Receiver for Home, Premium and Ultimate Edition $16

SiliconDust HDHomeRun Dual High Definition Digital Television HDHR3-US (Black) $70
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post #27 of 27
8/28/12 at 3:11pm
Thread Starter 
I just chatted with Lenovo and they said that tigerdirect (as well as circuitcity) is an authorized reseller of factory refurbished lenovo desktops.

So it might seem that this:

Lenovo Essential H415 3099-XF1 Refurbished Desktop PC - AMD A6-3600 2.1GHz, 6GB DDR3, 500GB HDD, DVDRW, AMD Radeon HD 6530D Graphics, Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit

For $300 would be the better deal and easier for me, but I would have to hide it behind the TV (it is on a corner style media cabinet so no problem) instead of placing it inside the media cabinet

I would still add the external hdd, remote, bluetooth adapter, HDhomerun tuner, etc.

Will the AMD HD 6530D on-board graphics be enough for the media streaming and light gaming?

Here is a review for its cousin AMD A6-3650 Llano 2.6GHz Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU (CPU + GPU) with DirectX 11 Graphic AMD Radeon HD 6530D

which doesn't look bad - guess I could upgrade to a dedicated graphics card in the future if need be
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