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Soundproofing a SPEC home?

post #1 of 34
8/27/12 at 9:03am
Thread Starter 
I have searched all over the place and learned a great deal about insulation on these forums. However, I cannot seem to find the specific answer to my issue. We are getting ready to sign a contract to build a "semi-custom" home and need to know the best things I can do or have them do while building my theater room (bonus room over living area. They install what they call "sound insulation in the walls for $5 per sqft. I am still waiting on the price to install in the floor for that room. My question is since they will not leave that room unfinished what should I do as far as sound proofing as much as possible for that room? Also how many dedicated circuit should I run to that room before hand? I was thinking 2 to 3 20amp dedicated circuits. One by the screen for sub and possible plasma behind projector screen and 2 in the equipment closet. I would also like to have a table in front of my seating housing 2 hidden lcd's for multi-player gaming but they want $440 for a brass floor outlet and I am not sure yet where I need it. Please help as we are signing this week and I only have 14 days to make changes without charges. Thanks !!!!

I cant post pictures yet but here is the link to the floorplan. The theater will be in the 22x18 bonus room. Thanks again! http://www.crescenthomes.net/plans/crescent%20indigo%20habersham.pdf
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post #2 of 34
8/27/12 at 9:20am
If you are getting ready to sign I don't totally Understand the issue of leaving a room unfinished, you are in the driver seat, they want your business. just refuse to sign unless they build the room the way you want.

since this is a room over other areas the floor comes into play. You need to put down a rubber mat and then float a second floor over it with no mechanical fasteners. Walls and ceiling should be double layers of 5/8 drywall with green glue hung on clips and channel. Ted White at soundproofing company can send you all the info you need to show your builder.

Walls, ceiling and floor should all be insulated, but you can use the cheapest available.
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post #3 of 34
8/27/12 at 9:26am
Thread Starter 
Iva already asked, being a SPEC home they can't leave a room unfinished. I was hoping they would as well. So if they can't do all of that what is the minumum you would suggest to do after the fact? I dont want minumum but need to know if my efforts are worthy to a point if you know what I mean. I do not want to do alot of things after the room is built if there is little to no value. Thanks for the quick response!
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post #4 of 34
8/27/12 at 9:47am
Once they have a contract it is no longer Spec. you need a better negotiator. I'm sure it has to do with the lender providing the construction loan, you might ask who that is and meet with them yourself, be aggressive, you hold all the cards right now.

Otherwise ask for 1/2 inch drywall, insulation in the floor. Once you get in roll up the carpet, tear out the walls and build the room right.
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post #5 of 34
8/27/12 at 10:31am
Thread Starter 
Yeah I figured I could tear out the drywall they put in but needed something on the floor. So Should I pay for their "sound insulation" in the floor and then pull up the carpet and add the rubber mat and pad then carpet?
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post #6 of 34
8/27/12 at 10:39am
Thread Starter 
Also I cant push this too much because my wife loves the house and this is the last lot available for this house. Also we have been looking for over 6 months and finally agree on something in our price range. In other words we need to get this house, lol.
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post #7 of 34
8/27/12 at 10:41am
If they insist on finishing the room you should ask for cheap sheet vinyl instead of carpet. You can build right over it when you do the floating floor.
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post #8 of 34
8/27/12 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

If they insist on finishing the room you should ask for cheap sheet vinyl instead of carpet. You can build right over it when you do the floating floor.

This. Have them finish the room (if they must) as cheap as possible. Cheapest vinyl flooring, 1/2 drywall.. I would not trust their soundproofing solution unless they can give you details on what they will be using. You might be able to talk them into doing staggered stud walls and using clips and channel....
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post #9 of 34
8/27/12 at 12:43pm
Thread Starter 
They just sent me an email stating $2420 to install "sound insulation" between the bottom floor and bonus room!!!!!!! That sounds ridiculous to me. Am I wrong?
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post #10 of 34
8/27/12 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 
Just received another email from them. They use Mineral Wool for the sound insulation. Would it be worth $2420? I can't imagine so.
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post #11 of 34
8/27/12 at 1:16pm
Thread Starter 
That is just the floor. The walls are another charge which she quoted $5 per sqft
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post #12 of 34
8/27/12 at 4:59pm
Have them install regular fiberglass insulation in the floor joists as it is doubtful you will ever have access to that space again. When you get in roll up the carpet, put down a rubber pad, then float some T&G 3/4 OSB or Plywood. Two layers would be better if you put Green Glue between layers.

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/soundproofing-products/soundproofing-floor-underlay/serenity-mat-flooring-underlay/
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post #13 of 34
8/27/12 at 8:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

This. Have them finish the room (if they must) as cheap as possible. Cheapest vinyl flooring, 1/2 drywall.. I would not trust their soundproofing solution unless they can give you details on what they will be using. You might be able to talk them into doing staggered stud walls and using clips and channel....

I agree with this statement. If they can do ANYTHING for you, opt for the stagger stud walls. Then go cheap on the drywall to the inside of the room and the flooring.

I am currently retrofitting an existing wall and "WHAT A PAIN" if you have the option to get some of the load-bearing items done "right" (staggered stud wall, etc)

Flooring. I am in agreement with DC, roll the carpet up and do the pad and OSB/Plywood with Green Glue/ Quiet Glue. The price they are quoting you for "soundproofing" and only using mineral wool is a ripoff.
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post #14 of 34
8/28/12 at 5:03am
Up here in Canada, the price of mineral wool sound insulation is about $35 per bag which covers 60 square feet if i remember correctly. Your theatre is just under 400 square feet = 7 bags = $250. Seems excessive that they're charging so much. I'd go with bigs idea and just ask for standard insulation and do all the good stuff yourself later on. If you ask them to do things that are too complicated (not normal to them) then you'll pay a lot for it.
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post #15 of 34
8/28/12 at 5:48am
A "spec" house is built by the builder as "speculation." Meaning it's not sold. THey would not build a spec home for someone, as Big said. Something's odd.

Clearly they are ripping you off with the insulation. I would NOT pay them to do anything more than you had to, because the more they do, the more you'll have to un-do.
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post #16 of 34
8/28/12 at 6:19am
Have them put Roxul Safe n Sound in the floor...it has great sound dampening ability and is fire resistant. Beats the pink fluffy stuff and you'd be on your way to doing it right.
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post #17 of 34
8/28/12 at 6:43am
Fluffy fiberglass is better than mineral wool. Per independent lab data from the NRC in Montreal. Finest acoustics lab in North America.
Edited by Ted White - 8/28/12 at 12:11pm
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post #18 of 34
8/28/12 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
I just priced it out locally and I would need around 305 bucks worth if I did not need to double it up in the floor. But even still doubling it up would be $610. Of course the builder get a price from the sub and the sub marks it up and then the builder does so I dont know, I do not want to tear everything apart after moving into a new home. This sucks.
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post #19 of 34
8/28/12 at 6:56am
Thread Starter 
Of course those prices were just for the floor and not installed, just material.
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post #20 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 
They will not let me purchase the safe and sound, they have to do it. How difficult is it to tear up the subfloor of a bonus room and do it after the fact. I am getting frustrated with the builder on this.
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post #21 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:04am
only 1 layer needed. ted will likely confirm this.

apparently pink and roxul have similar results. i buy roxul because it's locally made and because it's easy to install (diy'er). no itching.
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post #22 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:19am
Thread Starter 
So regular r15 insulation will be as good as Roxul?
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post #23 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by advertguy2 View Post

only 1 layer needed. ted will likely confirm this.
apparently pink and roxul have similar results. i buy roxul because it's locally made and because it's easy to install (diy'er). no itching.

1 layer needed, yes. Having access to cheap mineral fiber or cellulose, cotton, polyester, etc is fine.

In a ceiling, typically R19
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post #24 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:41am
Thread Starter 
Ted,

Just so I understand, I should just have them do the floor and interior walls with r-15 fiberglass batting and that should help? There would be no significant difference between mineral wool, safe and sound or regular r-15 fiberglass batting? I can then pull the carpet up after I move in and do the rubber mat and double OSB. And maybe add another layer of the quiet 5/8 drywall with green glue over the existing drywall? Would this be the easiest solution in my case? I hate to lose this house but I want to be sure I do not have to go back and do alot of demolition to a brand new house after I move in. Thanks for the help guys. I am supposed to be signing today and not feeling real comfortable right now.
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post #25 of 34
8/28/12 at 7:48am
The framing will be inadequate, as it will be coupled. We need decoupled. So IF you want it done right, you'd pull down the drywall and insulation, decouple the framing, re-install the insulation, then two sheets of standard (cheap) drywall and a damping compound.

I would have them do as little as possible, as it should all be removed when they're done.

The R13 will work as well as any of the listed insulations.
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post #26 of 34
8/28/12 at 8:20am
Thread Starter 
Ok they use r15 exterior insulation so I am assuming it will be cheaper than r13 so they do not have to purchase 2 kinds. I guess I will have them put it in the floor so I do not have to tear up the floor and I can do the walls after the fact. Thanks so much for assisting me with this. Im driving myself nuts trying to get all these answers by today. I am going to wait until later in the week to sign. Prices go up 1800 in September so i need to decide by Friday.
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post #27 of 34
8/28/12 at 8:20am
Thread Starter 
How much are we looking at in doing it right after the fact if I do all the work myself? Any ideas? I have never decoupled anything lol.
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post #28 of 34
8/28/12 at 11:32am
Thread Starter 
quite a difference in quote now. Regular r15 insulation is 500 for the floor and 225 for the 2 interior half walls. I am happy to pay this if it will assist in sound deadening. Any of you guys put the pink stuff in all your interior walls? At that price and if it helps with some noise I may do the bedrooms especially the master!
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post #29 of 34
8/28/12 at 11:53am
If you are going just for sound I'd still lean Roxul...if you are going for Thermal insulation...go pink fluffy. The ceiling in my theater isn't decoupled has Roxul with no drywall and is covered by fabric frames with the walls being a single layer of 5/8" drywall...is there some sound transmission yeah but it doesn't seem to bother anyone upstairs and we don't watch silent movies. I wont argue or debate Ted he's been around long enough to offer informed suggestions. I wouldn't let a home purchase hinge on one room...just go into it knowing your are going to pay some money now to rip it out later. The only right way is the way that works best for you.
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post #30 of 34
8/29/12 at 7:11am
Thread Starter 
They will not do Roxul. They flat out turned it down because they have never worked with it before lol. Anyway I guess r-15 is better than nothing in the floor. I may have them not do anything to the walls and do it myself later.
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