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My FTW21 Build thread - Page 6

post #151 of 356
Remind us again what amp you are using? Pay close attention to ensure your amp isn't clipping when running your tests. You don't want to go blaming subs and trying to send them back for exchange like this guy...

It took receiving my 3rd sub before realizing one channel on my amp was clipping. If you have a two channel amp then try the other channel, just to rule that out...

As far as the mounting hole issue...that's just ridiculous.
post #152 of 356
Thread Starter 
Wow!!! these things sound unreal. It's insane the bass I'm getting!
But have very bad news.

I have all 3 plugged in with 1 of my 15's still plugged cause I'm waiting for the 4th one.
Listened to music and am extremely scared to crank the volume.

So much so that while listening to music (at low volume) I heard a pretty loud knock and one of the subs stops working!
I took it out to check it and it looks great except when I put an ohm meter on the sub, it reads infinite.
If I move the sub with my hands you clearly hear something rubbing against something inside.
The other 2 don't do this.

My amp never clipped (can't cause I did not go very loud).
I'm running 1 sub per channel on a 10000Q.

Wrote to Mark and am waiting for his response.
I had a bad feeling with this one!
post #153 of 356
Sorry for your luck man... Interested to hear how Mark is going to address the issue.
post #154 of 356
Man! I'm waiting on a replacement driver right now too. I was going to buy what he had left since heard that wasnt going to make these anymore but he only had 2 or 3 when I emailed him. I was wanting 4 at minimum. I wonder if he will end up making more of these now that between me and you we have accounted for the rest of his drivers.
post #155 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Wow!!! these things sound unreal. It's insane the bass I'm getting!
But have very bad news.
I have all 3 plugged in with 1 of my 15's still plugged cause I'm waiting for the 4th one.
Listened to music and am extremely scared to crank the volume.
So much so that while listening to music (at low volume) I heard a pretty loud knock and one of the subs stops working!
I took it out to check it and it looks great except when I put an ohm meter on the sub, it reads infinite.
If I move the sub with my hands you clearly hear something rubbing against something inside.
The other 2 don't do this.
My amp never clipped (can't cause I did not go very loud).
I'm running 1 sub per channel on a 10000Q.
Wrote to Mark and am waiting for his response.
I had a bad feeling with this one!

frown.gif
post #156 of 356
Looks like I dodged a few bullets with my build. All four drivers, 10000Q clone, and MiniDSP are running flawlessly so far. Hope everything turns out well for you, FS.
post #157 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Sorry for your luck man... Interested to hear how Mark is going to address the issue.

Thanks man...Hope he takes care of this...it's a real bummer for me frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEXXD View Post

Looks like I dodged a few bullets with my build. All four drivers, 10000Q clone, and MiniDSP are running flawlessly so far. Hope everything turns out well for you, FS.

Thanks,
So how you enjoying yours?
The little time I heard the 3 it sound fantastic!!! There was soo much bass at very little volume..what I mean is the deep bass...it was there on such low volume!!!
Couldn't wait for the 4th one...hope I don't have to wait too long now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

frown.gif

frown.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Man! I'm waiting on a replacement driver right now too. I was going to buy what he had left since heard that wasnt going to make these anymore but he only had 2 or 3 when I emailed him. I was wanting 4 at minimum. I wonder if he will end up making more of these now that between me and you we have accounted for the rest of his drivers.

I sure hope soo! I want 4 of these and it scares me to know this happened to 1 of them. I hope the others stay good!
I definitely want my 4th driver!
post #158 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

So how you enjoying yours?

I'm really enjoying them so far. I got REW running over the weekend, but I haven't tinkered with the miniDSP EQ much other than adding an HPF. I need to spend more time dialing everything in, but I'd rather listen than play right now. Say what you will about Battleship, but that, and The Avengers, are fun f'n movies biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I sure hope soo! I want 4 of these and it scares me to know this happened to 1 of them. I hope the others stay good!
I definitely want my 4th driver!

This kind of has me wondering what happens if any of us have warranty issues going forward...
post #159 of 356
It sucks that 1 of the subs crapped out but if the others are ok, it's pretty unlikely that anything will go wrong with them in the future unless it's self inflicted. As for Warranty issues, Mark will take care of you. Other than Audiovideo, I can't say I've heard of any other problems with the 21'.

Fatshaft, If i was you, I'd be running your other 2 subs hard to make sure everything is good to go. Don't be scared, crank them up.
post #160 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEXXD View Post

Looks like I dodged a few bullets with my build. All four drivers, 10000Q clone, and MiniDSP are running flawlessly so far.
Same here. My clones & LMS's are all going strong. Knock on wood! eek.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I sure hope soo! I want 4 of these and it scares me to know this happened to 1 of them. I hope the others stay good!
I definitely want my 4th driver!
Sorry to hear about your bad driver. Im sure Mark will take care of it. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by VEXXD View Post

Say what you will about Battleship, but that, and The Avengers, are fun f'n movies biggrin.gif
HECK YEAH!! biggrin.gif
post #161 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

It sucks that 1 of the subs crapped out but if the others are ok, it's pretty unlikely that anything will go wrong with them in the future unless it's self inflicted. As for Warranty issues, Mark will take care of you. Other than Audiovideo, I can't say I've heard of any other problems with the 21'.
Fatshaft, If i was you, I'd be running your other 2 subs hard to make sure everything is good to go. Don't be scared, crank them up.

N8DOGG,

That's encouraging re: Mark taking care of me...I took your advice and blasted the 2 working subs!
I now have the 2x 21's in the back and 2x 15's in the front each driven on a separate channel of the 10000Q.

I put HIGH quality music (DVD-A).
the dials on the 15's are at 9 oclock and the dials on the 21's are at 2 oclock on the 10000Q.
I cranked the volume to -15DB on my HK 7550HD aside from freakin out how much bass is kickin me in the face.
the 15's are moving much more than the 21's despite having way less output.
I'd guess the 21's are moving approx. 1/2 to 3/4 inch total (back and forth). It seems like it's wanting more!

One of the 21's was making a screeching noise so I immediately stopped the music! I don't think this is normal.
I shut down that sub and played the other one and it sounds great.
I cranked the volume to -10db and it sounded great. No noise anything.

I have a feeling this other one is bad too!

My guess is I now have 2 bad subs with one completely giving out. frown.gif

BTW I watched the amp to make sure it never clipped...I was 2 lights away even at -10DB.
post #162 of 356
switch the amp channels to make sure it's not the amp. Also, After talking to Mark, make sure it's ok to blast the one that made the noise (depending on if he's going to want it back if it's bad) and put it through it's paces and just see what it does. If it's bad, it's bad.
also make sure you don't have any air leaks, it can make a crazy squealing sound depending on how much air is leaking. put you box on it's back and push on the driver straight down. If there is a leak, you should be able to hear it and if it's small enough, the driver won't spring back because it will have lost a bit of air from the box.
post #163 of 356
Wow! So you now only have one good driver?

You should be able to crank the volume with the FP10k turned to max on all settings without any issues from the subs. I keep my amps at around 2 oclock for movies but with music I turn them up to about 85%. The "good" subs will take all the power that the fp can give them with an enclosure like ours.

My bad driver doesnt have the issues yours has by any means I wouldnt think since I can play it rather loud before it starts clanking. When I first hooked it up Mark told me it sounded like a problem that gravity would fix and to rotate the sub in the box then see if it went away. I probably dont have more than 2 hours of music played on my subs and 20 or so movies, so they are still very new and probably not even really broken in yet. But I dont think the clanking sound is going to go away since it hasnt yet.

I wonder if something happened while he built this batch since obviously they are going bad fast.

I also wonder about the warranty claims if he abandons the FTW. That would be a major ordeal for people that have spent a lot of time and money on enclosures for drivers that may or may not be able to be replaced. Surely he can get parts in smaller numbers just to cover warranty claims though. There shouldnt be that many unless a whole batch was affect by something.
post #164 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

switch the amp channels to make sure it's not the amp. Also, After talking to Mark, make sure it's ok to blast the one that made the noise (depending on if he's going to want it back if it's bad) and put it through it's paces and just see what it does. If it's bad, it's bad.
also make sure you don't have any air leaks, it can make a crazy squealing sound depending on how much air is leaking. put you box on it's back and push on the driver straight down. If there is a leak, you should be able to hear it and if it's small enough, the driver won't spring back because it will have lost a bit of air from the box.

Thanks for all your helpN8DOGG...I really appreciate it all your help.

Ok what I did is put the GOOD driver on the channel that made the noise and it's the same. that good driver sounds great! No difference between channels. I also tried the other 2 channels to see if any difference at all. nothing they all sound the same.

Re: air leaks...I'm sure I have none. They are very hard to push in the subs! Even the bad sounding one.
The screeching sound sounded metallic..it was a knocking noise.
I will not try the bad driver anymore till I hear from Mark. I'm really afraid it's going to die on me too.


You write:
"(depending on if he's going to want it back if it's bad)"

Not sure what you mean by this...isn't he going to fix them?
post #165 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Thanks for all your helpN8DOGG...I really appreciate it all your help.
Ok what I did is put the GOOD driver on the channel that made the noise and it's the same. that good driver sounds great! No difference between channels. I also tried the other 2 channels to see if any difference at all. nothing they all sound the same.
Re: air leaks...I'm sure I have none. They are very hard to push in the subs! Even the bad sounding one.
The screeching sound sounded metallic..it was a knocking noise.
I will not try the bad driver anymore till I hear from Mark. I'm really afraid it's going to die on me too.
You write:
"(depending on if he's going to want it back if it's bad)"
Not sure what you mean by this...isn't he going to fix them?

If they driver is not able to be fixed then shipping it back to him would just be a waste of money. They would just find their home in a trash pile if that is the case. I dont think he wants me to send him mine back as he just said he would be shipping me one in the next couple of weeks.
post #166 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post

Wow! So you now only have one good driver?
You should be able to crank the volume with the FP10k turned to max on all settings without any issues from the subs. I keep my amps at around 2 oclock for movies but with music I turn them up to about 85%. The "good" subs will take all the power that the fp can give them with an enclosure like ours.
My bad driver doesnt have the issues yours has by any means I wouldnt think since I can play it rather loud before it starts clanking. When I first hooked it up Mark told me it sounded like a problem that gravity would fix and to rotate the sub in the box then see if it went away. I probably dont have more than 2 hours of music played on my subs and 20 or so movies, so they are still very new and probably not even really broken in yet. But I dont think the clanking sound is going to go away since it hasnt yet.
I wonder if something happened while he built this batch since obviously they are going bad fast.
I also wonder about the warranty claims if he abandons the FTW. That would be a major ordeal for people that have spent a lot of time and money on enclosures for drivers that may or may not be able to be replaced. Surely he can get parts in smaller numbers just to cover warranty claims though. There shouldnt be that many unless a whole batch was affect by something.

WOW to you too!
I'm way to scared to put the FP to max on the 21's especially with what happened today.
The one good sub really sounds great...I'm amazed how quiet it is too!
That sub really feels like it can take alot.
I'm sorry to hear about your sub and hope Mark fixes them all.

Right now I'm so discouraged. I took a week off this week to enjoy these beasts and it's turning into a nightmare.
I can't believe the headache I have right now and have a sick feeling to my stomach right now.

Call it quits for today...too tired to go on...got to keep some energy for the 4th sub that's coming tomorrow says Fedex tracking.

Thanks all for the help...
post #167 of 356
I don't get it,doesn't Mark test these drivers before he ships them? It'a PIA to ship a such a heavy driver back for repairs and the time and effort it takes to do it. mad.gif

I feel bad for you..
post #168 of 356
The driver will most likely be trash but I don't know, he may want it back or a vid at least to prove there is something wrong with it.
Yes Mark tests them before shipping but we don't even know what the problem is. He's not had many problems with his drivers other than the crappy shipping boxes at first for either the 21's or the UXL's.
You could say the same for every sub maker when you get a dud or 2. Heck, I had 2 mal-x's in a row be turds before I got my 2 working ones. Same as the 21" mal-x, one came damaged and the other has voice coil rub. It is what it is. I know it sucks.....
post #169 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Yes Mark tests them before shipping but we don't even know what the problem is.
UPS? wink.gif
post #170 of 356
Thread Starter 
Well, today is another day...can't believe how bad I felt yesterday night.

Anyways...FedEx just showed up with my 4th driver and I can't believe how scared to death I am to try it.
Going to try it and will report back.

Regards,
post #171 of 356
I know Popalock has mentioned this before but if you happen to have another amp I would try that on the subs making noise even if it doesn't show clipping. It happens a lot more than people realize and it's not just because of the clone amps, it happens with other amps as well but the clone amps do have to survive shipping all the way from China.

I hope everything starts going a lot smoother for you from here on out.
post #172 of 356
Sorry to hear about your bad luck Fatshaft. frown.gif Good luck.
post #173 of 356
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for the well wishes...really.

I'm smiling right now...this 4th sub to me sounds the smoothest..it's really quiet.
So I have 3 running right now with a 15" as a 4th. I'm completely blown away with the sound.
I'm sorry I can't describe it but it's just plane stupid the amount of bass I'm getting.
Play this song and you'll understand. It's called "Absolute Love by Entheogenic

This video does not do justice to how the HQ flac version I have sounds!
At 1:53 is where the "Watch out" starts.

During that song...my son opened the door, in my room, in a frantic state and I immediately stopped the music.
He said "Dad, you have to stop, 2 small vases upstairs fell down from the TV stand a broke!

So I picked up that mess before the wife gets home. wink.gif

Anyways...here's what I did:
Placed the sub on the carpet floor and played test tones, not loud to make sure it works.
Placed the sub in it's cab and fired it up.
Put a hard hitting song and watched the subs movement. All 3 moved approx. 3/4" in all.
I'm sure they can take more but am still afraid.
My volume on my receiver was at -10DB (To me that's stupid loud).

The dials on the 10000Q were all at 2 o'clock except the 15" sub was at 10 o'clock.
Blasted at that level for approx. 30 minutes. The sub seems fine and very smooth.

What I will do this weekend is do what "mjaudio" suggested. (thanks)
I will plug the defective sub on an EP4000 that I have and see how it behaves.
I will ONLY do this once I speak with Mark and says it's OK.

I don't have a good feeling about that sub...it's the sub that I had to put washers because the holes are so much bigger.

Still waiting to hear from Mark.

Again thank you all for everything, help/suggestions/well wishes and all.

Sincerest regards,

PS. As I'm typing all this my volume is at -40DB and cannot believe how good the bass sounds...I'm completely blown away right now. It so deep! I'm so used to my 15's...this is really insane and I mean this is an absolute great way!
post #174 of 356
That's a pretty cool track, buuut.... If you want to give your subs a real workout, give some of imagic's music a listen. I've seen you on his thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424334/the-truth-hz-your-diy-setup-cant-handle-this-a-compilation-of-infrasonic-music-by-dub-king/0_100#post_22383394

The Joy of Miinimal on my 2 LMS-U's started to unhinge my bathroom door...loved it...

That DeepDropper song will put you in check quick, so ease into it...
post #175 of 356
Thread Starter 
Ya I have all his demo's, and I love them too! I just wish he made more!
I've played them all...I can't get enough of this type of bass...I'm overwhelmed right now.

UPDATE:
Mark responded and will make 2 more subs and send them to me.
I'm very happy to hear this!

He said in his email he knows why the subs are clanking and will address the issue.
I asked about the 2 that seem fine and he said if they play fine they will be fine and not to worry about those 2.

So today is a good day indeed for me! smile.gif

So tonight I'm watching a movie with my son and can't wait!
post #176 of 356
So, it does seem like your clanking drivers and my bad one both have the same issue. Atleast he knows what it is!

I just cant wait till you actually turn up the volume. Just take your time with a track that you know has 30hz+ content and slowly crank them until you almost clip the amp. The amp should give out well before the drivers on music in your enclosures. You will be amazed how much more they have. Once you start getting loud every increase in db feels like a lot more.
post #177 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quick update....
Daughter called from work so paused the movie so that my son can go pick her up. Watching an old movie because I wanna wait to watch the good stuff when I have all 4 working.

Before I started the movie...
Knowing that Mark will be sending the 2 replacement subs..I decided to crank the volume a little more this time with my son in the room.
audiovideoholic is right...these things are absolutely insane.
I put my amps bass output from -2 to 0 and cranked the volume to -8 on "bass I love you" and holy sh!t. I had problems seeing the screen. It felt like my hair was going straight like as if I had major static. It's crazy!!!
BUT
That only lasted for a few seconds cause the defective sub was clanking like crazy. It really scared me. I can't believe how loud the clanking was and to my surprise it still works!

Guys these 21's are absolutely crazy...Never expected that this much output was possible...I'm almost afraid of doing this with 4 good ones.
But I can't wait!

The only time I felt so much output was at the last RUSH show I was at in Montreal almost 2 years ago. That show was pounding like crazy and can't wait to see them again Oct. 18th biggrin.gif

Anyways to those who bought these and raved about them...I just want to say I understand now...there's no words to describe it.
Sorry for the rant... wink.gif
post #178 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Quick update....
Daughter called from work so paused the movie so that my son can go pick her up. Watching an old movie because I wanna wait to watch the good stuff when I have all 4 working.
Before I started the movie...
Knowing that Mark will be sending the 2 replacement subs..I decided to crank the volume a little more this time with my son in the room.
audiovideoholic is right...these things are absolutely insane.
I put my amps bass output from -2 to 0 and cranked the volume to -8 on "bass I love you" and holy sh!t. I had problems seeing the screen. It felt like my hair was going straight like as if I had major static. It's crazy!!!
BUT
That only lasted for a few seconds cause the defective sub was clanking like crazy. It really scared me. I can't believe how loud the clanking was and to my surprise it still works!
Guys these 21's are absolutely crazy...Never expected that this much output was possible...I'm almost afraid of doing this with 4 good ones.
But I can't wait!
The only time I felt so much output was at the last RUSH show I was at in Montreal almost 2 years ago. That show was pounding like crazy and can't wait to see them again Oct. 18th biggrin.gif
Anyways to those who bought these and raved about them...I just want to say I understand now...there's no words to describe it.
Sorry for the rant... wink.gif
No rant there bro! I love reading these kinds of posts, especially after going through pretty much the same thing not to long ago. smile.gif
post #179 of 356
Make sure you have the amp set to maximum wink.gif but just make sure you don't cook your subs in the process.
(83V would be the safe value FYI)
post #180 of 356
Yeah, you wont have to be scared with good working drivers. They will play very loud and you will only have to worry about watching the clip light lol. You'll know they are safe when its pure loudness without distortion (or atleast no distrotion that you will hear). The clanking is a faulty driver so no worries. My clanking driver will clank right at about 60% of what I run the others at so there is a whole lot of head room between them. I just turn that channel down on the fp to about 45% and it never clanks but will be glad when can just toss it.

Glad its turning around!
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