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My FTW21 Build thread - Page 10

post #271 of 356
Thread Starter 
I have already tried stacked and yes it is absolutely insane (this was with the 15's though)...I can't do it that way cause at low volume my house shakes like crazy and would be afraid to break everything if I stacked the 21's and cranked the volume.
eek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gifeek.gif

I found that one per corner really flattened the sound and I like that. The drawback of having one per corner is that the bass volume goes down. I have to increase the sub out volume to compensate...hence the reason why I upgraded the amp and decided to go with subs that can handle it and then some.
I think I made the right decision but with these subs I now notice what in phase and out of phase can do!
I need the solution between these 2 and I'm really hoping the MiniDSP will accomplish that.

I could only stack them in the back too as I do not have room in the front to stack them cause my Left and Right speaker is on top of the subs. Right now I only have 2" from the top of my speakers to the ceiling.

I'm really hoping that the MiniDSP fixes my low end issues.

Right now I have the rears connected out of phase cause I crave the deep stuff.
Connected this way I also have to increase the output from the 10000Q.
In phase I have to set it @ 12oclock
Out of Phase I have to set it @ 2oclock

BTW Scott,

There's no way I'm buying more subs!!! biggrin.gif
post #272 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

BTW Scott,
There's no way I'm buying more subs!!! biggrin.gif

Ok... We'll be sure to reference this post after you get your MiniDSP dialed in for the smoothest/flatest fq response ever and realize that you literally can't get enough output super clean eq'd (not fatiguing) output...

I'll sit back and smile while Scott drops the inevidible "I told you so."


Redacted upon submission of video evidence. The prosecution rests. No further questions.
Edited by popalock - 10/5/12 at 8:48am
post #273 of 356
Thread Starter 
Here's a small video I did...
This is above my cinema room. Remeber, my room is soundproofed with Double Drywall, Green Glue and Whisper clips)
This is with the rear speakers connected reversed!
Volume is at -15 on the HK.
Subs out are at -3 for both sub1 and sub2 output.
LFE trim is at -6DB (Range is from 0 to -10)
10000Q setting: all channels at 12oclock. ( the vpl light up when the low note hits - Clip lights NEVER come on)
Song is: Absolute Love by Entheogenic

It's INSANE the amount of bass...
In the room sitting in the LP_ chair...it vibrates like crazy! My hair feels like it straightens when the low note hits!
If my rear subs are not reversed I DO NOT get this shaking and the low bass is GONE!!!!

Enjoy...
The fun part starts at around 0:27s
th_MVI_9198.jpg
Edited by Fatshaft - 12/19/12 at 3:27am
post #274 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Here's a small video I did...
This is above my cinema room. Remeber, my room is soundproofed with Double Drywall, Green Glue and Whisper clips)
This is with the rear speakers connected reversed!
Volume is at -15 on the HK.
Subs out are at -3 for both sub1 and sub2 output.
LFE trim is at -6DB (Range is from 0 to -10)
10000Q setting: all channels at 12oclock. ( the vpl light up when the low note hits - Clip lights NEVER come on)
Song is: Absolute Love by Entheogenic
It's INSANE the amount of bass...
In the room sitting in the LP_ chair...it vibrates like crazy! My hair feels like it straightens when the low note hits!
If my rear subs are not reversed I DO NOT get this shaking and the low bass is GONE!!!!
Enjoy...
The fun part starts at around 0:27sth_MVI_9198.jpg

Trust me, it is better not to know what is happening upstairs! All those settings are nice and all but overall what does this mean? Are your subs calibrated flat, 5 dBs hot, etc...? Once we know that all you have to tell us is that 0 MV is reference and we will know what levels you are experiencing.
post #275 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Ok... We'll be sure to reference this post after you get your MiniDSP dialed in for the smoothest/flatest fq response ever and realize that you literally can't get enough output super clean eq'd (not fatiguing) output...
I'll sit back and smile while Scott drops the inevidible "I told you so."

I bet this does not happen becuse 4 21's in his small room should be enough and all he has to do is turn the gain up for more.
post #276 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Enjoy...
The fun part starts at around 0:27sth_MVI_9198.jpg

I would like to redact my previous statement...
post #277 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Trust me, it is better not to know what is happening upstairs! All those settings are nice and all but overall what does this mean? Are your subs calibrated flat, 5 dBs hot, etc...? Once we know that all you have to tell us is that 0 MV is reference and we will know what levels you are experiencing.

I'll make this simple regarding your questions above..

I don't know. redface.gif

the point of the video is:
1. to show how much bass the 21's output (In my house)
2. to understand WHY there's so much more bass/shaking with the subs reversed in the back.

I'm truly sorry for offending you with the video.

Re: what I am experiencing:
All I can do is explain what I hear and feel. I do not have equipment to show what is really happening...I'm sorry for that.

I will take eventually take some time to learn REW and take some measurements in my room.
I only have the mic that came with my HK reciever. Sorry for being a noob at this. redface.gif

Regarding you comment "it's better not to know what's happening upstairs" I don't understand that.
post #278 of 356
I was being funny, welcome to destroying your house above your theater club.
post #279 of 356
Aw man, I want to respond to your post because even I feel bad...

I can't speak for MK, but interacting with him through the forums I can say that I truly do not think he was scalding you or anything negative.

Their is a science to our hobby and I understood his post as just asking for objective measurements.

His comment about upstairs, I took it as one of those *wink wink* comments. Like, if your subs are doing that in your listening room I will be even crazier upstairs!
post #280 of 356
Dude! Your table is walking around your living room. tongue.gif I hope my 18"s can get output like that. smile.gif
post #281 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I was being funny, welcome to destroying your house above your theater club.

Lol...yeah, this.

Hey Fatshaft, didn't you say your listening room (HT-whatever) was directly on a concrete pad? So the video you took of the table walking was on the flooring directly on your foundation?
post #282 of 356
My room is 4 walls of concrete out of 6 and there is no stopping the bass. The lower and louder the worse upstairs it gets. You don't think 20hz and under matters, just play WOTW and go upstairs and then play Avengers and go upstairs. WOTW will create havoc upstairs and Avengers will be like nothing is on. Ask me how I know. At least fatshaft only has a few things to move and rattle. I have a kitchen and dining above mine and the pots and pans rattle like crazy and what can wake up the kids at midnight. I try not to go upstairs when I am demoing because I start to feel bad, ignorance is bliss!
post #283 of 356
I don't know.....

Could vouch for four more 18's in there I think. The table didn't jump at all, just sort of slid along the floor.

Needs more sub.
post #284 of 356
Get a nice HQ Ikea chair and have people over for a free chair massage.

I think you will need some filler subs around the room. So thats another 4 subs or so right........biggrin.gif
post #285 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

Dude! Your table is walking around your living room. tongue.gif I hope my 18"s can get output like that. smile.gif

I hope so too for you...it's pretty cool and did not expect that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I was being funny, welcome to destroying your house above your theater club.

Sorry...I should've know better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Lol...yeah, this.
Hey Fatshaft, didn't you say your listening room (HT-whatever) was directly on a concrete pad? So the video you took of the table walking was on the flooring directly on your foundation?

3 of 4 walls are the foundation of the house walls.
The floor in the HT Room is poured concrete
Left wall is built up with DD, GG and whisper clips
Ceiling is the same thing...no cement there...the floor upstairs as major flex.
Like MK said, there's no way bass won't get out...it really does nothing to stop it but that's all you hear outside the room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I don't know.....
Could vouch for four more 18's in there I think. The table didn't jump at all, just sort of slid along the floor.
Needs more sub.

No way man...I'll try to make it jump up and down in a few weeks when the subs have broken-in...stay tuned for that! biggrin.gif
post #286 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Here's a small video I did...
This is above my cinema room. Remeber, my room is soundproofed with Double Drywall, Green Glue and Whisper clips)
This is with the rear speakers connected reversed!
Volume is at -15 on the HK.
Subs out are at -3 for both sub1 and sub2 output.
LFE trim is at -6DB (Range is from 0 to -10)
10000Q setting: all channels at 12oclock. ( the vpl light up when the low note hits - Clip lights NEVER come on)
Song is: Absolute Love by Entheogenic
It's INSANE the amount of bass...
In the room sitting in the LP_ chair...it vibrates like crazy! My hair feels like it straightens when the low note hits!
If my rear subs are not reversed I DO NOT get this shaking and the low bass is GONE!!!!
Enjoy...
The fun part starts at around 0:27sth_MVI_9198.jpg

Bwahahaha awesome! The first time I really cranked up my system with all my subs, it opened all the kitchen cabinets and broke 7 hanging pics on the wall as they fell to their deaths...... fun isn't it!!!
post #287 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

Bwahahaha awesome! The first time I really cranked up my system with all my subs, it opened all the kitchen cabinets and broke 7 hanging pics on the wall as they fell to their deaths...... fun isn't it!!!

I can't even imagine what it must be like at your place eek.gif

I had a friend come over today for a demo...He said I'm nuts and that I need help! tongue.gif
I then told him the light fixture he bought for the entrance to his home ($5,500) and told him that he's insane and that he needs help too! He never spoke about it again!

Scott, I then told him that I was thinking of getting 4 more and stack one per corner! Scott? wink.gif
The problem is that there's no more so I'm stuck with these 4 biggrin.gif
post #288 of 356
They still have 18's though. wink.gif

tongue.gif
post #289 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

They still have 18's though. wink.gif
tongue.gif

LOL...
I cannot go lower now can I? With this disease wouldn't downgrading/going to a smaller sub be suicidal?
post #290 of 356
Four 18's to include with your 21's. *nods* Mhmmm!
post #291 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Here's a small video I did...
This is above my cinema room. Remeber, my room is soundproofed with Double Drywall, Green Glue and Whisper clips)
This is with the rear speakers connected reversed!
Volume is at -15 on the HK.
Subs out are at -3 for both sub1 and sub2 output.
LFE trim is at -6DB (Range is from 0 to -10)
10000Q setting: all channels at 12oclock. ( the vpl light up when the low note hits - Clip lights NEVER come on)
Song is: Absolute Love by Entheogenic
It's INSANE the amount of bass...
In the room sitting in the LP_ chair...it vibrates like crazy! My hair feels like it straightens when the low note hits!
If my rear subs are not reversed I DO NOT get this shaking and the low bass is GONE!!!!
Enjoy...
The fun part starts at around 0:27sth_MVI_9198.jpg

I hope you know that what you are accomplishing is the equivalent of what the car audio guys are always trying to get from their setups. The difference is your "environment" is 20 times larger....
post #292 of 356
I will be buying more 21's in the future from Incriminator Audio. DP21 Not as good as the FTW but dang close.
post #293 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

I will be buying more 21's in the future from Incriminator Audio. DP21 Not as good as the FTW but dang close.

My brother had asked me about these just the other day. But I couldn't find any T/S specs and the owners REFUSE to publish them. They just give you an "optimal" box size and tell you to experiment with box sizes. Dunno how that's supposed to work in real life unless you are building boxes made of cardboard, but...

How do you plan on figuring out box size, sealed v ported, etc?
post #294 of 356
They published the T/S for them. I also had Nick email me the specs. I cant seem to be able to upload the WinIsd file.
post #295 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by wth718 View Post


My brother had asked me about these just the other day. But I couldn't find any T/S specs and the owners REFUSE to publish them. They just give you an "optimal" box size and tell you to experiment with box sizes.

That's really odd. Alienates a lot of potential customers.
post #296 of 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

They published the T/S for them. I also had Nick email me the specs. I cant seem to be able to upload the WinIsd file.

How recent was that? Can you post them? In the last week, I looked on their site and saw pages of people arguing for this info and the owners resisting.

And yes, I found it really odd, as well.

PS - Don't want to hijack the thread, so if you want to PM the specs, that's cool, too.
post #297 of 356
Thread Starter 
Just trying to save some time and energy as I have relatives staying at my place all weekend...can someone point me to a site/place on how to use REW for DUMMIES?

Thanks
post #298 of 356
HTS has a write up there but there maybe one here.
post #299 of 356
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

HTS has a write up there but there maybe one here.

Thanks, found the thread and have a lot of reading to do...



I jst got this email from MIniDSP site...
- miniDSP platforms require a plug-in for control and configuration. If you haven't purchased a plug- in already, you'll need to purchase one separately from the online store. A download key will automatically be generated at the purchase of the plug-in and a zip file including both Windows and Mac installers can then be downloaded.

Did I need to purchase something else when I ordered the MiniDSP?


Thanks
post #300 of 356
Yes - this is the software you will use to program the MiniDSP. Without it, you can't accomplish anything. http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins - see what makes the most sense for your setup. Be sure to note the "Compatible Platforms" row, so you buy one that works with your device. For use with one sub, thinking to add another later, I picked the at-that-time new 2.1 way Advanced. Most folks around here with the 2x4 get the 2-way crossover Advanced. Memory is escaping me now why I picked the 2.1, but I figured it was a safe bet since it just adds another option to the 2-way. With the 2 way you have 2 in, separate out. With the 2.1, you have 2 in, 4 separate out, with the option of summing two (one from each pair) to mono.

Datasheets with flowcharts are here: 2-way advanced -- 2.1-way advanced.

10 bucks for a plugin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post


I jst got this email from MIniDSP site...
- miniDSP platforms require a plug-in for control and configuration. If you haven't purchased a plug- in already, you'll need to purchase one separately from the online store. A download key will automatically be generated at the purchase of the plug-in and a zip file including both Windows and Mac installers can then be downloaded.

Did I need to purchase something else when I ordered the MiniDSP?


Thanks

Edited by baniels - 10/10/12 at 7:27am
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