NEW EPSON HOME CINEMA 3020, 5020 and 6020 AVAILABLE IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER 2012 - Page 12

I went through all posts regarding 5020. There seems to be some who does not like 5020 compared to 5010. If money is not an issue would you buy 5010 or 5020? I really need to buy new pj within a week or two. Any advice would be appreciated.

5020 without a doubt, if only for the RF 3D glasses which are easily the best on the market.

Last night I setup my Epson 5020 - thank you AVS - and right out of the box it looks pretty good. I upgraded from an Epson 8500. I was surprised that there was no hardcopy of the manual included in the box. Reading the PDF version of the manual is a pain since my PC is on the other side of the house. I watched Prometheus and Imax's Under the Sea in 3D using the THX setting and they both looked great! I also watched a couple of episodes of Strike Back Season 2 in 2D and they looked awesome. I set SuperResolution to 2 and the picture looked fantastic! I know that everyone has been raving about Epson's new 3D RF glasses and they are very comfortable if you aren't wearing a pair of regular glasses underneath. I found them a little uncomfortable over my regular eye glasses. Well, going back to play around some more! Great job Epson!!!!

The 5020 is an improved/tweaked 5010 so I would suggest the 5020 if that minimal price difference is of no concern.



On my cousins 5020 we thought Super Resolution at 2 was about as far as one would want to go, 3 introduces even more obvious artifacts (EE/Ringing).

My wife used the new epson glasses over her glasses and said they worked great but then her eye glasses are very small.

THX in 3D does look good and still felt bright enough on my 133" matte white, only felt like it was dim when directly compared with Dynamic (which is over the top for my eyes).

Jason

For those complaining of ghosting, try lowering the sharpness as it will impact the amount you see at times.

there's no ghosting whatsoever when you completely align the images from the depth control setting.just pause the image when this is done and will eliminate any and all crosstalk(ghosting) that isn't present from the original source.i didn't realize this until i started playing with the 3D settings.the resulting picture is completely smooth with no ghosting! the picture is amazing! coming from the 8700ub with FI turned on to low,i was worried about this not being an option in 3D but was pleasantly surprised to see how totally smooth and clear the images are with no problems of blurring when panning from one angle to the next.incredible!
P.S.
video processing from both OPPO BDP-103 and DARBEE are great added bonuses as well.
Edited by urbeenjammin - 11/13/12 at 11:11am

only the 3D brightness control should be used for adjusting the ghosting. 5020 owners should not touch the depth controls. It's deceiving and all it's doing is moving the crosstalk from 1 part of the field to the other.

have to disagree completely.you are robbing yourself of a completely smooth image if you're not going to tweak the deoth of the image.the depth controls is what eliminates the ghosting completely in my projector.owners can find out for themselves easily since if you overly adjust the control,the worse the ghosting is.for you to say that the depth control doesnt improve ghosting is completely false.you admitted in your own statement that it does move it.

you should research what this is doing, I've been reviewing 3D projectors for years and this control is well understood by now. All you are doing is changing the parallax to compensate for the visible cross. The crosstalk then moves to a different part of the 3D field. Look at 3D ghosting patterns and you'll see exactly what I am talking about.

also, ghosting is not present in the source, it's always the projector that is showing the crosstalk. Some projectors are better than others while DLP's are flawless in this regard, they cannot ghost regardless of how difficult the 3D content is.

look at Happy Feet 2 for a good example, this is difficult movie on non-DLP's.

i respect your knowledge with projectors and mean no disrespect but i know that you are mistaken when you say there is no ghosting from the sources at all.that is a false statement.you should read more reviews of 3d blu rays.crosstalks are present from some blu ray movies indeed.if what you say is true,then all 3d blu rays should be rated 5 stars.you are misleading in this regard.i think that when you say that tweaking the depth control does nothing to help with crosstalks and i say it eliminates it completely when i view the images...who should i trust in this issue? i think the answer is obvious.

Zombie is RIGHT! It is the monitor and not the source. Those review sites are out to lunch and we've had some of these guys on this forum and proven them wrong! It is not in the source! The glasses might also exacerbate the problem or not, but DLP for example does not "ghost"! I have a 3D DLP and the Epson 6010 and the DLP does not ghost on any, and I mean any of the sources that the reviewers complain about. The Epson handles "ghosting" extremely well, but it does show "ghosting" occasionally on the same source material. This has been discussed on this forum for the past three years. Zombie has posted many pictures showing the exact same scene taken with different projectors and the differences with respect to "ghosting"" are very apparent.

One reviewer who was complaining bitterly about a 3D Blu-Ray actually tried it on a 3D DLP and low and behold no "ghosting" at all. He was man enough to admit he was wrong about ghosting being a source problem. Now the other reviewers need to educate themselves about "ghosting" before they make total fools of themselves. Oops -- too late! What these reviews actually tell the reader is that if you aren't using a DLP for 3D then you might want to rent a particular disc before buying and check it out for problems on your projector or T.V.

When a calibration test disc shows that your projector has problems in certain areas is it the fault of the "test" disc or the projector? These tough 3D discs are showing the limitations in the ability of the technology and how it is being employed in a particular projector -- that's all.

Check out this thread if you want to find out more about "ghosting" and how the different projector technologies handle it. Go down quite a bit on the first page for pictures of "ghosting" on the various projectors being tested.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1382091/jvc-rs-45-sony-hw30-benq-w7000-epson-5010-mini-shootout
Edited by Deja Vu - 11/13/12 at 12:57pm

i thought we were long past this, but there is another generation of folks this year upgrading to 3D projectors that don't fully understand crosstalk, depth controls, etc.

Most of the 3D reviewers were used to plasmas and LCD TV's with obvious crosstalk to use as a references. I think WSR is still rating them on ghosting.

it's only until certain folks see a 3D DLP that they'll understand the source has nothing to do with it.

for those in the know, don't touch the depth controls. The 5020 already has very good control over crosstalk with the glasses set 1 notch below the brightest setting.

Any reviewer who is blaming the source for ghosting is flat out wrong and is misleading their readers which you unfortunately are a perfect example of. I mean no disrespect by that, but this is why I am so adamant on reviewers who are still spreading this crap since they are spreading false information and misleading their readers. Zombie is 100% correct on all his points. Which reviewers in particular are you referencing? Nate Boss by chance over at HDD? Who else?

I have a similar control in my RS45 by the way and yes you can adjust the crosstalk out of "one individual scene" only to have it pop up in other scenes where it would not be before the adjustment........this is a useless tool for eliminating crosstalk.

EDIT: Great post DejaVu and 100% agreed.
Edited by Toe - 11/13/12 at 1:02pm

I posted this on the >$3000 forum but maybe this is one is more appropriate:

Of all the projectors out there I'm settling on Epson 5010(20). Warranty, support and lamp life are too good to pass it up. My room is not light controlled (family room) and the walls are light colored - but we do not watch the pj during the day anyway. My screen is a Firehawk 92" and the pj is at about 15' from the screen.

Now that the 5020 is out, I wonder if one could get the 5010 in a closeout deal (maybe in the <$2000 price range). I'm not a videophile and do not change projectors every other year, so a good reliable pj is important to me.

If someone is thinking of unloading a 5010(e) please let me know - anyone knows if Epson's warranty is transferable? A AE7000 just sold here for $1000, so maybe I'll get lucky.

Hope to join you soon!

Thanks, MJC

One more point on ghosting --

If the "ghosting" was in the source material then all projectors should show ghosting at the exact same places in the source material and to the same degree. This is simply not the case. It is now common knowledge on this forum that some projectors show less ghosting and others reveal more, so how can this be attributed to the source? Can some projectors magically overcome the source and "fix" the problem? In fact, some projectors don't "ghost" at all (DLP). How is this possible if it's in the source? That doesn't mean that the source can't be challenging, it can, and this is where many get fooled -- some of it is very challenging, but this tough material is exposing the problems with the projector's technology and how that technology is being employed. These discs are now being used as test discs to expose the flaws of a particular monitor and that is why we use them as test discs.

O.K. time to move on.

mjcow,
Epson's warranty is not transferable. I would check with BB for there clearance price on 5010.

zombie10k,
I've decided on the 5020 and will be getting it on Thursday. What other settings should I look at to help with crosstalk.

Its amusing how much time is spent talking about ghosting.

View the projector yourself, if you see ghosting then don't buy it.

I just bought the Epson 3020, have critically viewed 6 blu-rays so far in 3d, and have not noticed any ghosting at all. This seems to track the positive reviews so far, that ghosting has practically been eliminated.

Now people say, practically? Virtually? That's not good enough, there should be ZERO ghosting etc.

Well, I haven't been able to detect ANY ghosting on my 3020, none.

Nor has my wife or my guests....

If you think its fun to look for ghosting in every movie you watch, or to run test discs like the Disney blu-ray or Spears and Munsil, have a ball.

But at the end of the day, the only thing that matters is picture quality, and whether ghosting is noticeable. For my 3020, it is my opinion and experience that the image is at least 95% ghost free, if not higher.

I can't complain for spending $1399 on a projector.....and avoiding RBE which DOES affect and bother me quite a bit.

you don't have to change any settings except lowering the 3D brightness 1 notch below the maximum setting. The 5020 is a very good performer in 3D and looks great with the majority of content you'll see.

i totally agree with you.i have to laugh at the pessimists here...if i see no ghosting whatsoever in how i tune the picture settings,then there's no ghosting for me.plain and simple.here we are talking and praising our projectors and someone has to come in and say that i'm seeing something that i'm not and i should believe and go by what someone says who isn't here and disregard what i'm seeing in front of my projector.thats like me telling someone how ugly their wife is knowing how a few moments ago,you describing how beautiful she is to you.that makes a lot of sense lol
if someone says they benefited from fine tuning the depth control,then they benefited from it.don't tell me i didnt when the fact that i did.its my eyes that matter here and not someone else's.being involved in sales a lot,there's a saying that goes "the customer's always right" if he or she claims to benefit from fine tuning in their own way then so be it.you have to trust that consumer.you don't have to argue with that individual and tell them that they're just hallucinating.
Edited by urbeenjammin - 11/13/12 at 1:58pm

I don't know much about much, so I'm gonna go with what Zombie says!!

we're not being a pessimist.. these are facts of how this control works. If you change the depth controls, you are simply moving the ghosting to another part of the screen. It's not difficult to understand. This control has been discussed for over 2 years now, it hasn't changed with the new projectors.

All the control is doing is drawing in the 2 separated stereo images to mask the crosstalk, then makes it worse in a different part of the screen. You are also changing the default depth by messing with this setting.

Overall the 5020 is a very good performer at 3D and ghosting is rarely seen. If you see it, ignore it. Changing the depth controls is not recommended by anyone who understands what this control does.

Could someone with experience of the 5010 and 5020 please comment on this...I had a 5010 for a while but the ghosting on 3D SBS 60Hz 1080i content was very bad - everyone in the family complained about it. 24p 3D content was fine but unfortunately all the 3D content we wanted to watch was SBS (games, htpc, stb etc). Other than the 5020 3D being brighter, has ghosting improved for SBS content on the 5020 at all compared to the 5010? Thanks for your comments.

It is not pessimistic, it is just the reality of using this control as a means to try and eliminate ghosting. Next ghosting scene you come across with your new settings, adjust out the ghosting and then go back to some scenes that did not have ghosting and you will now have ghosting in some if not all of them again and this is the point. The depth control when used to "try" and eliminate ghosting does NOT work as a universal adjustment that will work for every scene which is why using this control in this way is useless and can actually make things worse overall. I have been through this same exercise as you are now going through with my RS45 and it is a waste of time I am sorry to inform you.

I have a few questions about the 5020 vs the 6020.

My understanding is the 6020 is the same as the 5020 but comes with an extra lamp, an extra year of warranty, a ceiling mount and is black in color. Are these the only differences? Are they for sale yet and if so, how much and where?

This is the projector I'm getting, but I'm curious if the 6020 is a good deal or not. I really like the black color vs the white.

even zombie10k, a very experienced projectorphile, admits that the lousy, inferior technology (I'm being sarcastic here) LCD based 5020 has almost no ghosting.

That has been my experience with my 3020, again, so far I haven't been able to detect ANY ghosting at all on mine, viewing various types of 3d blu-rays, through the Epson glasses and the Samsung 4100s.

For $1399, to get a projector that I think everyone would agree exhibits almost no ghosting, and universally acclaimed 3d performance, is amazing.

My local dealer, Paulson's AV in Farmington Hills, MI, has the 3010 (closeout) and 3020 set up next to each other, and boy you'd better believe the ghosting/crosstalk issue is night and day between the two.

I was able to detect ghosting on the 3010 while viewing Avatar, but was not able to detect any on the 3020. Perhaps its there, and I suppose if you watch Avatar 50 times in a row and conciously look for it, you might find some in a scene or two...

but so far I haven't been able to detect any.

I'm very happy wiht the 3d performance.

Now the black levels, naw, they are kind of disappointing...just very average...but, hey, what can you expect for this price point, I didn't want to pay another $1,000 for the 5020.

I just got off the phone with Epson and I was told the 6020UB will be released the first week of December. The person I talked with didn't sound very competent though. I asked for the MSRP of the 5020 (so I could compare MSRP to actual selling prices) and he said he wasn't showing any information on that either and said the 5020 would be released at the same time as the 6020. I told him the 5020 was already for sale online.

So I guess I'm not any closer to an answer.

Dealers get their Epsons Epson distributors. My distributor told me the 6020s I had on order for various customers and for stock should be here in MD by early next week. Whether they will actually come I won't know until he get's them.

Does anyone know if any RF glasses will work on the 5020? My girlfriends kid is only 3 and epsons glasses are way to big for him. Also a little pricey for a 3 yr old in my opinion to be playing with so I need to get him some cheaper and hopefully more durable kids 3d glasses. I've found some off eBay that use Bluetooth for 37$ or so with shipping but don't want to buy them if they won't work. Any help is greatly appreciated as I've held the glasses for him and he is hooked on wanting to watch tangled 3d now lol