NEW EPSON HOME CINEMA 3020, 5020 and 6020 AVAILABLE IN OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER 2012 - Page 21

Are you in Europe? If so, I'd recommend the "Light Power Edition" version of the 5020. 1200 lumens in Eco mode and you'll be set.

If you're not in Europe, well it's a little tougher. The Epson will give you a bit over 16 fL on either screen, so that's just fine. After 500 hours on the bulb you'll be down to 12 fL or so. Still OK, but starting to get to the point where some people will want to replace the bulb. The Sony will give you 21.7 fL in Normal mode. Some people will find that too bright, but of course you can switch to ECO to drop output. After 500 hours you'll still be getting over 16 fL with the Sony.

The Sony is a good amount quieter than the Epson at full power. In ECO, they are both very quiet. If it were me, and I could not get the Light Power Edition Epson, I'd go with the Sony for 2D. If I could get the LPE, I'd get the Epson.

3D, well, that's more complicated. In the thread I link above there's a very good shoot out between the two projectors. I'd study that if I were you.

@Kirnak Thank you very much for your nice reply my friend, I am in Turkey i think we dont have here light power edition here. I will try to learn more and try to test them. Kind Regards

UPDATE (12/23/2012):
It appears the video screen blanking when 2D-3D conversion is "ON" is related to the Darbee I am using. When I take the Darbee out of the video stream, the blanking goes away.
Edited by ie50dennis - 12/23/12 at 6:30pm

I just wanted to point out that my 5020 sits about two feet above my head, and my iris on high speed makes zero audible noise, I have almost 400 hours on it now and have only heard the slightest noise once!

Is there a way to use the normal lamp mode without the loud fan noise?

I am on my 3rd Epson projector. Had the first ub 5 years ago and just replaced my 3 year old Epson 8500ub (took 3 tries to get one w/o a serious flaw) with the 5020ub. The first one just went belly up in my daughter's HT (not worth the repair costs) and she will inherit the 8500ub. It still gets a great picture except for a recent 1/2 inch pink band on the very bottom of the screen which is not noticeable when dropped into the black velvet border. It would likely cost more to fix than it is now worth. Hopefully it does not get worse. I had never gotten more than 1500 hours on the lamps of the first 2 until I set the 8500ub fan speed to high altitude on it's 3rd bulb. It is still throwing a good picture at nearly 2500 hrs. The point is I got use to a little extra noise and felt it was worth it to experiment with bulb life. I swear that my 5020ub at normal fan speed is about as loud as the 8500ub was at high altitude. Not awful but I know it is there...and fortunately, I am use to it. I consider it a keeper since the iris is very quiet and the convergence is within one pixel and nearly perfect after using the pixel alignment option and doing a ceiling mount. I am super pleased again with quality of picture from Epson. It seems to me Epson QC off the productions line is variable at best given the experiences reported in this thread. The good news as I learned on the 8500ub is that Epson customer service has always be great.

What about the fan noise when watching 3D with the projector that close? Is it as bad as some people are saying? Seems stupid that they won't let you use eco mode for 3D if you want to.

Just watched first 3D, in a dedicated theater with the projector about 2 feet away (just out of arms reach). Yes I could hear the projector. It was not too bad, but not silent. Probably on the edge of building a hush box around it.

My iris was DOA essentially. Very noisy and after 5 minutes the projector ramps up the fan and then overheats, shuts down and says to contact customer support. It is getting replaced after the holidays.

Convergence is good.
Edited by GRBoomer - 12/27/12 at 7:57pm

Well you also need to consider room setups, in my room I have a pc that has 3 gtx 580's with loud fans in them as well as all the home theatre gear, I'm usually watching tv or movies at a regular listening volume, nothing to loud and I never notice noise wise my pj is even on! honestly. Even with my really loud pc, after 30 seconds of watching a movie or gaming or whatever , I forget all about the noise coming from the pc or pj. Will this be the same in your setup? Idk, the only time I can hear the pj is when I get right up to it, although my iris even when the sound is off in the room like when a commercial blacks out is virtually silent, I must have got a good unit, my color uniformity is perfect, iris is silent and convergence is also very good, oh and living room mode looks amazing for games after my cousin calibrated it with his meter! same goes for when I watch 3d, hear nothing.

if you have you audio system set up properly,there should be no issue with the lamp noise whatsoever.it is directly placed above the home theater seating and none of the viewers for my "movie nights" have any issues with it as well.you have to keep in mind that when the manufacturer produced this superb projector that they have to obviously keep in mind the noise when in 3D mode.if your movies have little or no sound at all,then i can understand the noise issue.

My 5020 is on the ceiling about a foot behind and four feet to the right of my viewing position. If I watch a test pattern with no noise in the room the PJ is very quiet in ECO, the Iris is extremely quiet, but noticeable in a quiet room. In Normal mode the fan is easily heard in a quiet room. I've watched 2 IMAX movies in 3D, full power 3D Dynamic. Neither my wife or I could hear the projector over the movie. I was listening for it, but never heard it. I would guess you would hear it in Normal mode during a quiet movie with a quiet passage, but I really don't know. All I can say is that I have yet to hear the PJ during a 2D movie in ECO, during a 3D movie in Normal or watching sports during the day in Normal. Now, I think if you had the PJ on a shelf close to your head you would probably hear it in normal mode.

BTW, I watched the Imax Grand Canyon movie last night in 3D on my 138" white screen. Gain is probably around 1.1... I found the picture pleasantly bright, and I'm sensitive to dark pictures. I was using 3D Dynamic and the LPE filter. Colors seemed natural and skin tones all seemed natural as well. I thought the picture was gorgeous, even though I have not done a 3D calibration yet.
Edited by Kirnak - 12/26/12 at 12:44pm

Same thing happend to me. i got a new projector from epson and all is well now. they ship overnight for free too!

Hello,

I am about to get the 6020 ub with the Screen Innovations 115" Black Diamond 1.4 Zero Edge screen. Does anyone out there have experience with this combo? This will be my first projector and I'm just trying to make the best decision for these components.

If anyone has used this combo please also let me know if you also got their Edge Lighting LED kit that can go with it.

Thanks for any other info that you may share about the choices.

Larry

That should be a nice combo. Do you have the screnn already? If you don't, project the image on the wall first to see what size you are comfortable with before commiting to a size.

Hey guys,

I have read most of this thread but want to be sure. I just took delivery of my Epson 5020UB and wanted to be sure how to check the convergence. It looks like you are just bringing up a menu and looking to see if the pixcels are aligned? Also I was looking for a page from you guys on the best settings to try.

Thanks again. Really just want to check the convergence issue.

Thanks.

Hey guys, just checking to see how I can check the convergence on this Epson 5020 projector. Is it as simple as looking at a menu with white letters on a black background?

Please advise as to how I can check this out.

Thanks again.

go into the main menu on the pj and find the lcd alignment menu and see what the pattern looks like.

OK thanks. All the pictures I have been looking at are of the menu so I was not so sure.

Do any of you with Epson 3020s have the LCD Alignment setting??

It is located in: Extended/LCD Align.

And allows you to adjust the convergence using a grid pattern.

It is a feature in the 5020 but not the 3020, and both manuals show that, 3020 no 5020 yes.

So either I bought a 3020 with a 5020 mother board OR Epson is playing software games...

That is all models have the same features, they just do not turn them on in the lower priced models.

Canon cameras do that I have a low priced model that was hacked and the extra features are turned on...

I lean towards the software mistake as I do not have frame interpolation, a feature of the 5020.

Maybe someone can hack these projectors and turn on all the features??

Rich
Edited by racprops - 1/5/13 at 12:56pm

It sure seems Epson is all over the place with panel issues. I have both a 5010 from last year, and I just bought a second Epson - the new 3020.

Last year I had problems with BAD alignment issues, similar to the shots you show here. I got a replacement unit that was much better, and all is good.

The new 3020 had poor convergence out-of-the-box . . . but it also had the white "smearing", similar to the pics show. The projected image looked merely okay, but you could tell it wasn't quite right. Last night I just picked up a new unit (an exchange) from the dealer. It was slightly worse than my first 3020. I decided to spend a couple of hrs. going over the entire panel - row by row, column by column to "touch up" the really bad convergence. A lot of the pixel adjustments (mostly the vertical lines) were off by a factor of 8. But even doing this didn't reduce by much the white smearing you could really see on white text.

I found a quasi fix for the white smearing that worked for me . . . by using the alignment grid as my focus chart, I was able to see when BOTH the vertical and horizontal lines became the thinnest - or most in focus. Doing the focus this way (using the alignment grid) greatly reduced the smearing where it became quite minimal - with an image that rivals now my 5010. It seems that the smearing is a limitation of the optics in the Epson projectors - even the more expensive units with the higher end Fujinon lens assembly can exhibit such problems. My guess is that the smearing is some form of chromatic aberration. But I've found that this flaw really only kicks in when the unit is just SLIGHTLY off of perfect focus. Getting perfect focus on the lines in the grid reduced the smearing by about 80%. Doing this plus a full pixel alignment made all the difference in the world. After doing this careful set up, watching Raiders of the Lost Arc on Blu-ray was stunning where the image seemed perfect - instead of troubled.

The interesting thing is how these units ship from Epson . . . my original purchase came with the the panel alignment feature enabled. The replacement unit I got yesterday didn't have this option in menus - but it's easy to enable by using the instructions that are posted in the forum which turn this feature on by going to a service menu in the projector.

The 3020 (and the previous 3010) don't include the alignment feature (unless you're lucky to get one that Epson sees fit to ship with the "alignment" option enabled in the menu system) . The alignment feature is not shown in the manual . . . it's too bad that Epson doesn't sanction the use of this feature, since folks could likely resolve a problem they see on screen vs. calling Epson for a replacement.

Ian
Edited by teeger - 1/7/13 at 1:05pm

Could you please post a link or instructions? Thanks!

I'm on my 5th 6020/5020. Epson is going to check out my next one before they ship it. The smearing is really bad flare in the optics. My 8700UB had none of this... Hopefully I'll have a hand picked unit from Epson this week. I'll post up the results of that. They swear they aren't having unusual problems on these models, but the poll thread shows an awful lot of people are having problems.

Please don't forget to complete the poll. If you have a perfect PJ, or if you have problems, either way we need as many people to fill out the poll as possible. Thanks!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1445525/all-5020-6020-owners-please-help-please-answer-this-poll-in-an-attempt-to-get-a-response-from-epson

Actually, I was interested in the info on the service menu...

Thanks for your interest in the poll!!

Here's a link that gives instructions on how to get to the service menu. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1366241/my-epson-3010-projector-just-arrived/1260#post_21893195. If you proceed and get to where you can change the dip switch settings, you are getting into dangerous territory. I don't think anyone knows what changing the switch settings will do.

Even though you have a 5020 or 6020, the way to get to the service screen is the same as for the 3010 and 3020.

The poll is a great idea. I think Epson would be further ahead to figure out a "fix" for poor optics, chromatic aberration issues and / or pathetic convergence than to keep replacing units.

I've had a bunch of focus / smearing issues with the 5010 - but also with the 3010 and now the 3020. I know the poll your initiated is for the 5020 and 6020 - but Epson's problem here is with ALL of their Home Cinema 3D projectors. It's all the same.

Part of the problem might be quality control from the factory in China. I'm assuming that most of the projectors aren't defective . . . they just need to be assembled and adjusted with tighter tolerances.

Ian

Thanks!

Yeah, something is definitely wrong. I'm going to forward the poll to Epson; Hopefully they'll take note.

Well, this is my second 5020ub:



Using the "electronic alignment" to fix it looks terrible (to my taste). Lots of filter ringing where they've tried to use DSP to do sub-pixel shifting.

My first 5020ub had comparable convergence issues AND bad white field uniformity (magenta/green splotching). My vendor (VA) has been great so far helping me swap these out, but I think I may start yelling directly at Epson to stop wasting their time. As I have discovered in this thread it's clearly a factory tolerance problem.

Are my expectations for convergence really too high for a $2.5-3k product?

I got great alignment on my 5020 simply by avoiding subpixel adjustments. By limiting the 5020 to non-fractional pixel adjustments, you avoid the nasty color artifacts caused by "faking" subpixel adjustments. To do this, you perform the 4-corner pixel adjustment on the R and B colors, but for each corner you only adjust in increments of 10. And make sure all 4 corners are set exactly the same (ex: -10 horizontal, +10 vertical in each corner). There is a good chance that you can get convergence across most of the screen to be within 1/2 of a pixel, which is pretty good!

First, note that the default patterns the 5020 uses for pixel alignment are pretty poor; it is far easier to see the pixel structure when only primary colors are displayed. Therefore, start by burning the AVS HD 709 Bluray test disc which contains 2 useful patterns for convergence: a set of horizontal lines that alternate between R/G/B segments (to measure vertical alignment), and a set of vertical lines with the same pattern (to measure horizontal alignment). I believe you used these patterns above.

Then do this:

1. Let the 5020 warm up for 20 minutes.
2. Put it into Dynamic mode (makes it easier to see pixel structure) and turn off any detail enhancement, sharpening adjustments, and frame interpolation
3. Bring up the AVS HD 709 horizontal line test pattern (as shown in your photo above)
4. Using the center of the screen, assess whether R needs to move vertically by -1 or +1 pixel in order to line up with G
5. Go through the 5020 convergence procedure and set R to -10 or +10 accordingly on all 4 corners (ignore the pattern displayed).
6. Go back to the AVS pattern and confirm improvement.
7. Repeat for B vertical.
8. Switch to the AVS HD 709 vertical line test pattern and repeat the process for both R and B horizontal alignment.
9. Check the AVS patterns one last time across the whole screen, hopefully you have good results at this point!

I hope this helps.

-Brian
Edited by Brian Miller - 1/30/13 at 1:14pm

In your photo, are you trying to use this pattern to evaluate horizontal alignment? That pattern should be used for vertical alignment: all 3 color segments should "line up" and form a straight horizontal line. Use a corresponding pattern of vertical lines to evaluate horizontal alignment.

From the zoom box in your photo, the vertical alignment doesn't look too bad.

Where are you finding Best Buys that carry the 5020? AFAICT they only carry the 3020...

Brian - thanks for the tips. I haven't had a chance to attempt the "full pixel" electronic alignment yet, but that was going to be my next experiment (I'm trying to keep the hours low in case I need to return/exchange it).

As for the pattern choice - yes, I used both horizontal and vertical patterns to evaluate the appropriate convergence dimension, but this was the cleanest/best focus photo I took so it got posted over the others.

I'm waiting on the return of my first unit to process before I do much more with this one.