AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Radiance 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) Calibration with CalMAN 5
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Radiance 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) Calibration with CalMAN 5

post #1 of 535
9/5/12 at 1:07am
Thread Starter 
SpectraCal Shows Radiance Color Cube Technology at CEDIA 2012

(Indianapolis, IN) – September 5, 2012 – Lumagen, Inc., designers of the Radiance series of video processors, announced the first color cube processing for home theater at the CEDIA Expo today. The processor is being shown in the SpectraCal booth, booth 1237 at the Indiana Convention Center in Indianapolis.

The color cube will allow more precise calibration to ensure the most accurate video image.

Color cubes are also known as 3D Look-Up Tables (LUTs), although the technology is unrelated to stereoscopic (aka 3D) video. Cube technology is currently used for characterizing high-end reference monitors in professional video production and post-production. Color cube correction has never been available to the viewer at home.

“The new color cube processing in the Radiance is the first time the home user has been able to apply the same color correction technology as professionals who adjust color for a living,” said Derek Smith, founder and CTO of Seattle-based SpectraCal, Inc.

Simultaneous with the availability of color cube functionality in the Radiance series, SpectraCal is releasing software to make use of the added levels of control. SpectraCal’s CalMAN 5 automatically characterizes any video display and sets the Radiance appropriately to correct the display’s deviation from the standard.

The Radiance color cube technology allows settings at 5 points of luminance, saturation, and hue, for a 5 x 5 x 5 cube.

“The 125 points of control ensure that nonlinearities in display technologies which could not be corrected by previous video processors can now be completely addressed by the Radiance,” said Jim Peterson, Lumagen’s President.

“It’s amazing the difference in the quality of the video image before and after calibration with the Radiance 3D LUT,” said Joel Barsotti, SpectraCal’s Director of Software Development, who personally developed the Radiance implementation. “After calibration, every color is visually indisguishable from the reference standard,” Barsotti said.

“Even though the 125-point calibration is much more precise, the calibration itself is actually much faster and easier,” Smith said.

The color cube technology, still in pre-release testing, is freely available to current Radiance owners.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 535
9/5/12 at 10:15am
Is Radiance Mini-3D supported?
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 535
9/5/12 at 11:12am
With the latest pre release firmware from Lumagen, yes, the Radiance Mini 3D will support the 5x5x5 cube.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 535
9/5/12 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by N3W813 View Post

Is Radiance Mini-3D supported?

All Radiance units are supported
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 535
9/5/12 at 1:38pm
Wow! I love Lumagen!!
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 535
9/5/12 at 2:08pm
Just to be sure. Currently, I have Radiance XD-3D, and CALMAN4.
To get 3D LUT, I just need a :
1) pre-release FW (at no cost). Where do I get this, BTW? I don't see it on Lumagen website.
2) CALMAN5 Enthusiasts (since I have CALMAN4 and a bunch of add-ons, I should be upgraded with no cost).

The cube pattern generation is done by Radiance, so I do not need a seperate PG, correct?

Thx!
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 535
9/5/12 at 2:32pm
The Radiance is your pattern generator and should have all 3 for 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 unless something is changing

EDIT: 0, 25, 50, 75, 100
Edited by turbe - 9/6/12 at 9:46pm
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 535
9/5/12 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Just to be sure. Currently, I have Radiance XD-3D, and CALMAN4.
To get 3D LUT, I just need a :
1) pre-release FW (at no cost). Where do I get this, BTW? I don't see it on Lumagen website.
2) CALMAN5 Enthusiasts (since I have CALMAN4 and a bunch of add-ons, I should be upgraded with no cost).
The cube pattern generation is done by Radiance, so I do not need a seperate PG, correct?
Thx!

1. Lumagen will be posting this update on there web site once it is released.
2. Correct, because you own CalMAN v4 plus add-on's you will automatically get upgraded to CalMAN 5 Enthusiast for no cost.

You do not need a separate pattern generator. This will be done with the Radiance processor. The Radiance processor will act as both the source that generates patterns and the processor that calibrates the 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) using CalMAN 5 Enthusiast or the Pro/Ultimate business products.

I hope this helps.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 535
9/5/12 at 3:22pm
Yeah! thanks. Can't wait!
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 535
9/5/12 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbe View Post

The Radiance is your pattern generator and should have all 3 for 20, 40, 60, 80 and 100 unless something is changing

The patterns are equally spaced rgb values, so they don't line up with the previous saturation patterns.

But we do have full control over the output triplet even for btb and wtw.
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 535
9/5/12 at 6:00pm
Any chance something like this might be added to the DVDO Duo?
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 535
9/5/12 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slb View Post

Any chance something like this might be added to the DVDO Duo?

You'd have to ask DVDO, it's non-trivial to add a 3D LUT to the video pipeline.

On the CalMAN side, it's easy for us to add support for new 3D LUT devices.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 535
9/6/12 at 11:04am
So... after the 3D LUT calibration... where do you end up with grayscale, gamma, and color? Are all 3 calibrated at the same time? Do you still need to calibrate grayscale and/or gamma separately?

Presumably the LUT takes care of color (xv, uv or whatever) and color luminance?

What happens if/when the video display can't reach one of the targets even after using all the adjustment range in the Radiance? Do you get feedback/warnings? For example, if, say, Red is too low in luminance and cannot be raised for 100%, does the LUT make luminance correct for color values below 100% but warn you that the display can't achieve the correct 100% red luminance?
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 535
9/6/12 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Quain View Post

1. Lumagen will be posting this update on there web site once it is released.
2. Correct, because you own CalMAN v4 plus add-on's you will automatically get upgraded to CalMAN 5 Enthusiast for no cost.
You do not need a separate pattern generator. This will be done with the Radiance processor. The Radiance processor will act as both the source that generates patterns and the processor that calibrates the 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) using CalMAN 5 Enthusiast or the Pro/Ultimate business products.
I hope this helps.

To be safe ensure that your CalMAN license key (what was sent in email and you pasted into your CalMAN software) is within the 12 month period of maintenance support (look at the actual key for the month day info, should look something like @12xx for current year, or @11xx for last year).
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 535
9/6/12 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

So... after the 3D LUT calibration... where do you end up with grayscale, gamma, and color? Are all 3 calibrated at the same time? Do you still need to calibrate grayscale and/or gamma separately?
Presumably the LUT takes care of color (xv, uv or whatever) and color luminance?
What happens if/when the video display can't reach one of the targets even after using all the adjustment range in the Radiance? Do you get feedback/warnings? For example, if, say, Red is too low in luminance and cannot be raised for 100%, does the LUT make luminance correct for color values below 100% but warn you that the display can't achieve the correct 100% red luminance?

With CalMAN 5 the Radiance LUT calibration is done in two steps. First we run the grayscale/gamma AutoCal at 21 points to deal with gamma and RGB coupling. Second we run the Cube AutoCal at 125 points minus 16,16,16 black. The 21 point grayscale takes about 10-15 minutes and the 125 point Cube takes about 20-25 minutes. So your total time including setting up the display/projector should not be more than an hour to get the best calibration available with consumer gear.

This processes is the same for CalMAN 5 for all the 3D LUT devices we support only difference is the number of points the devices has in it's cube taking longer.
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 535
9/6/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

Presumably the LUT takes care of color (xv, uv or whatever) and color luminance?
What happens if/when the video display can't reach one of the targets even after using all the adjustment range in the Radiance? Do you get feedback/warnings? For example, if, say, Red is too low in luminance and cannot be raised for 100%, does the LUT make luminance correct for color values below 100% but warn you that the display can't achieve the correct 100% red luminance?

If at max luminance a primary or secondary is under luminance we reduce the maximum luminance of white independently from the gamut luminance to correct for this error.

When the cube is done, everything should be correct for luminance.

Our whole automated process takes about 30-40 minutes, once you got the basic calibration on the display (brightness, contrast, 2 point white balance).
A 21-point grayscale calibration with a C6 takes 10-15 minutes and the cube portion takes between 15-25 minutes.
The result is 125 points with an AVERAGE dE2000 <1.
Edited by sotti - 9/6/12 at 12:23pm
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 535
9/6/12 at 1:05pm
Does CalMAN 5 AutoCal support alternate or custom gamma formulas and targets?
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 535
9/6/12 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV349 View Post

Does CalMAN 5 AutoCal support alternate or custom gamma formulas and targets?

Yes you can use any exponent or any of our supported formulas.
We also include a custom gamma target editor, so you can create any kind of gamma target you'd like.
We can use measured black levels to compensate for high black levels.

Infact you can even target alternate gamuts, so if you wanted to calibrated for DCI/P3 gamut, or if you wanted to do AdobeRGB you could do that as well (assuming your display has a wide enough native gamut).

Our process is extremely flexible to let you calibrate it the way you want to. It's important to have this flexibility baked in, saturation changes significantly when you change gamma targets and once you've calibrated the cube, the levels may not line up well enough with the grayscale to be able to successfully modify gamma. Then even if you could, you may or may not have correct saturations.
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 535
9/6/12 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yes you can use any exponent or any of our supported formulas.
We also include a custom gamma target editor, so you can create any kind of gamma target you'd like.
We can use measured black levels to compensate for high black levels.
Infact you can even target alternate gamuts, so if you wanted to calibrated for DCI/P3 gamut, or if you wanted to do AdobeRGB you could do that as well (assuming your display has a wide enough native gamut).
Our process is extremely flexible to let you calibrate it the way you want to. It's important to have this flexibility baked in, saturation changes significantly when you change gamma targets and once you've calibrated the cube, the levels may not line up well enough with the grayscale to be able to successfully modify gamma. Then even if you could, you may or may not have correct saturations.

The other side of that coin is that by default CalMAN 5 uses gamma 2.2 power curve as its AutoCal target so for those that don't need or want to learn about the complexities of gamma it’s easy just press the button. But now that CalMAN 5 is being used in many industries including post and production we had to adapt all our AutoCal code to support any type of gamma, white balance, gamut including full user created custom. The benefit of that is some of these high end features trickle down to our consumer products.
Edited by derekjsmith - 9/6/12 at 2:13pm
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 535
9/6/12 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

The other side of that coin is that by default CalMAN 5 uses gamma 2.22 power curve as its AutoCal target so for those that don't need or want to learn about the complexities of gamma it’s easy just press button. But now that CalMAN 5 is being used in many industries including post and production we had to adapt all our AutoCal code to support any type of gamma, white balance, gamut including full user created custom. The benefit of that is some of these high end features trickle down to our consumer products.

Does autocal allow partial calibration? Usually in a 21 pt grayscale, with me using i1D3, it is not that accurate at 5 and 10% level. I would rather skip those and use my eyes. Can this be setup as well?
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 535
9/6/12 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Does autocal allow partial calibration? Usually in a 21 pt grayscale, with me using i1D3, it is not that accurate at 5 and 10% level. I would rather skip those and use my eyes. Can this be setup as well?

You can't skip them, but you can use the DDC control and touch them up.
We just added pop-out DDC windows in the 5.0.2 build that went up yesterday, so now it's easier than ever to have manual control if you want it.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 535
9/6/12 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You can't skip them, but you can use the DDC control and touch them up.
We just added pop-out DDC windows in the 5.0.2 build that went up yesterday, so now it's easier than ever to have manual control if you want it.

Joel,
In Calman4, I thought you can create custom %LEVEL, and auto-cal will then only work on those customized %LEVEL, is this still available?
It is a pain if this does not work, because I believe in most situation, 5-10% are really difficult to calibrate using consumer grade colorimeter, and it is just wasting a lot of time doing things that does not work. I know I can touch up those after it is done, but it is still frustrating watching it rolleyes.gif
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 535
9/6/12 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Joel,
In Calman4, I thought you can create custom %LEVEL, and auto-cal will then only work on those customized %LEVEL, is this still available?
It is a pain if this does not work, because I believe in most situation, 5-10% are really difficult to calibrate using consumer grade colorimeter, and it is just wasting a lot of time doing things that does not work. I know I can touch up those after it is done, but it is still frustrating watching it rolleyes.gif

You can always press stop, it works from white down.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 535
9/6/12 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You can always press stop, it works from white down.

oh, I thought if I hit cancel, it will cancel everything. Good i will just stop then.
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 535
9/6/12 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

oh, I thought if I hit cancel, it will cancel everything. Good i will just stop then.

I love it when I can solve problems without writing code smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 535
9/6/12 at 4:49pm
Hey Joel. another question.
For this 3D LUT, is it only "autocal", or would you be able to DDC on selected points? As you know, autocal is good for the 1st run, but 2nd/3rd touch-up run that does not require big changes will save time and also allow flexibility for user to make tradeoff.
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 535
9/6/12 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hey Joel. another question.
For this 3D LUT, is it only "autocal", or would you be able to DDC on selected points? As you know, autocal is good for the 1st run, but 2nd/3rd touch-up run that does not require big changes will save time and also allow flexibility for user to make tradeoff.

You can manually use DDC to touch it up.

But our cube autocal completes in less than 20 minutes on the radiance (in most situations). I can't imagine you'll be able to find and adjust a handful of points in less time. Managing 125 points manually is extremely cumbersome, and I wouldn't recommend it, but yeah we'll let you do it.
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 535
9/6/12 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

You can manually use DDC to touch it up.
But our cube autocal completes in less than 20 minutes on the radiance (in most situations). I can't imagine you'll be able to find and adjust a handful of points in less time. Managing 125 points manually is extremely cumbersome, and I wouldn't recommend it, but yeah we'll let you do it.

Thanks Joel. I am not going to manaully do all 125, but maybe I will just go in and tweak a few after auto-cal and during my 2nd-run if I only see a few points off. The only remaining question I have is, are all those points independent of each other? I guess most devices are not, so when you do autocal, did you make 1 change and check all 124 and see if they need redoing??
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 535
9/6/12 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Thanks Joel. I am not going to manaully do all 125, but maybe I will just go in and tweak a few after auto-cal and during my 2nd-run if I only see a few points off. The only remaining question I have is, are all those points independent of each other? I guess most devices are not, so when you do autocal, did you make 1 change and check all 124 and see if they need redoing??

The look up points are discrete, our DDC controls are not. We interpolate our DDC controls using the same algorithms we use during auto cal to allow you to adjust a few points without having to adjust every point. We probably need to add a toggle to allow users to lock down all the points so you can manually tweak just a value or two. After an AutoCal session, all the points will be locked down. But even just flipping through all the points and updating the patterns and DDC control to get to the correct points is likely going to be more work than just running AutoCal.

I'm not sure what you mean by 2nd run. Creating a good cube isn't a 1-way, multplass procedure. So most of the cube is fully calibrated by the time we get to the last few points.

Also you CAN NOT do grayscale with a cube in place, the levels no longer line up, you need to do grayscale with the cube in unity, then calibrate the cube. Since the cube may be using a white limiter it may turn 100% into 97%, so now your 100% window doesn't line up with either grayscale 95% or 100%, so how do you adjust that afterwards? You don't.

Like I said above, the manual controls are there, but you're going to spend more time and likely shoot yourself in the foot if you try it. Our results with AutoCal
are very good.
Edited by sotti - 9/6/12 at 6:36pm
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 535
9/6/12 at 6:19pm
Some examples of the DDC 3D LUT pop-out editor in CalMAN 5. The pop-out editor can be placed anywhere on the screen and used just like a remote control.






Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Radiance 3D LUT (5x5x5 Cube) Calibration with CalMAN 5