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JVC New Projectors Announced - CEDIA 2012 - Page 8

post #211 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Interesting, Kris. Were you at Cedia this year, and if so, did you see the new JVC's?
Thanks.
Mark

Didn't make it, too much stuff going on at home this year.
post #212 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Kris, can you expand on your comment about the recent JVC projectors not performing as well as the RS35? Is it due to poorer ANSI performance of the later models?

We haven't seen the same attention to detail. For instance the CMS and Gamma controls didn't work as well and convergence hasn't been as solid. I've had two different RS-35s in my room and both were flawless for convergence and chromatic aberration. Uniformity has never been an issue and neither has the bulb. The only gripe I have about the RS35 is it tends to show banding a bit more than later models, but it doesn't dither like they do. ANSI contrast on my RS35 is quite good too, more in line with a DLP than what I've seen from LCOS. MTF is exceptional as well.
post #213 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

A brief overview and a few videos about the range as it will be released in the UK (just transpose the X35, etc models into your RS equivalents):
http://www.avforums.com/forums/projectors/1678363-hands-exclusive-jvc-launch-dla-x35-x55-x75-x95-d-ila-3d-projectors.html

In the AVforum article they mention that the JVC X75/RS56 will now have the auto calibration capability like the X90 had last year. How does that work? I'm assuming you need to get, for example, a Spyder4elite. What else would you need? Will JVC give the proper software to do the auto calibration? It would be great if I can auto calibrate the projector without having to call in a professional! In this case you wouldn't need the Lumagen mini or DVDO Duo, so thats saving money right there (although the X75/RS56 is not cheap).
post #214 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

We haven't seen the same attention to detail. For instance the CMS and Gamma controls didn't work as well and convergence hasn't been as solid.
Truer words were never spoken. The RS55 is better than the RS50 with CMS and Gamma controls but still not up to RS25/35 standards. Convergence on my RS50 was similar to my RS55 but I had to get 3 RS50's to get there and neither is anything to write home about. CA is worse on my 55 than the 50 so thats a crap shoot along with convergence. I have to say it really bites when one guy gets a projector with great convergence and the next gets one that's horrible but both paid the same $$. Oh, yeah, then there is that lamp thing......(which is hopefully mitigated to a large extent with the flapper lamp).
Edited by Geof - 9/13/12 at 5:12pm
post #215 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

In the AVforum article they mention that the JVC X75/RS56 will now have the auto calibration capability like the X90 had last year. How does that work? I'm assuming you need to get, for example, a Spyder4elite. What else would you need? Will JVC give the proper software to do the auto calibration? It would be great if I can auto calibrate the projector without having to call in a professional! In this case you wouldn't need the Lumagen mini or DVDO Duo, so thats saving money right there (although the X75/RS56 is not cheap).
Spyder accuracy has not been good. I don't know about version IV but TBH but with it's history I would personally not use it.

I'm not sure what all the projector can autocal. If it's just grayscale/gamma that would be a useful (if the Spyder is decent) but adjusting gamut in the 50/55 fixes some things but worsens others. The only real way to fix gamut in these machines will be the new 125 point calibration capability in the Lumagen. Not only that the Lumagen does a better job of converting 720p to 1080p than the projector.
post #216 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Spyder accuracy has not been good. I don't know about version IV but TBH but with it's history I would personally not use it.
I'm not sure what all the projector can autocal. If it's just grayscale/gamma that would be a useful (if the Spyder is decent) but adjusting gamut in the 50/55 fixes some things but worsens others. The only real way to fix gamut in these machines will be the new 125 point calibration capability in the Lumagen. Not only that the Lumagen does a better job of converting 720p to 1080p than the projector.

I see. What device then would you recommend? Auto calibration should mean the calibration of everything including color gamut, grayscale, and gamma. I'm still not sure how JVC's auto calibration option works. Maybe somebody else can enlighten me? I don't want to spend extra money on the lumagen. If JVC's auto cali works good, then there is no need to buy a lumagen.

Also, this is regarding the upcoming JVC RS56/X75, which may have improved CMS.
post #217 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

I see. What device then would you recommend? Auto calibration should mean the calibration of everything including color gamut, grayscale, and gamma. I'm still not sure how JVC's auto calibration option works. Maybe somebody else can enlighten me? I don't want to spend extra money on the lumagen. If JVC's auto cali works good, then there is no need to buy a lumagen.
Also, this is regarding the upcoming JVC RS56/X75, which may have improved CMS.
Not sure about the new machines capabilities and I think this won't be known until they ship. But I'm fairly certain the current RS65 autocal only works with the Spyder IV. I understand about the Lumagen but if you want a really good cal that appears to be the best way to go and one could make a case for getting a lesser projector/lumagen combo as compared to a higher level projector.
post #218 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

Spyder accuracy has not been good. I don't know about version IV but TBH but with it's history I would personally not use it.
I'm not sure what all the projector can autocal. If it's just grayscale/gamma that would be a useful (if the Spyder is decent) but adjusting gamut in the 50/55 fixes some things but worsens others. The only real way to fix gamut in these machines will be the new 125 point calibration capability in the Lumagen. Not only that the Lumagen does a better job of converting 720p to 1080p than the projector.
Sounds like a man that is happy that AV Science recommended and sold him a Lumagen.
post #219 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

I assume he is referring to the new JVC DLA-RS4810 which it is my understanding is only sold thru custom installers. Basically a RS48 projector, but with an extra year of warranty.

I fixed my post. We will be selling it and will offer installation where we can.
post #220 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by plissken99 View Post

Personally I'm waiting on user reports on the bulb life in the new models. If they really can hit 2000 hours I will be upgrading from my RS40(hopefully JVC will still keep me in new bulbs). I've thought about jumping to another brand(sony in particular), but lets face it, once you go black, you never go back. biggrin.gif

By the time someone amasses 2000 hours we will be talking about the models announced at the coming 2013 Cedia the end of September 2013 in Denver.
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 9/13/12 at 7:04pm
post #221 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Sounds like a man that is happy that AV Science recommended and sold him a Lumagen.
Why yes, yes I am....smile.gifsmile.gif

Thanks Mark......

EDIT: I'd have been even happier if AVS had paid for it too but I'm definitely happy I bought it. tongue.gif
Edited by Geof - 9/13/12 at 7:56pm
post #222 of 1073
Re the MPC controls. The big deal is not the controls I think but the better algs and much higher data sampling and number crunching.Bigger bandwidth of the video signal being processed.

Re a better lens in the higher end models, I do not think so but I really don't know. I will find out though.The UK product specialist on the intro video did mention that the actual e shift element is better this year being flatter, having a greater surface area with resultant improved optical performance absorbing less light. Remember every bit of light out of the projector must pass through the eshift element ragardless of whether it is one and shifter the frames that need to be shifted.

As I stated last year, the big reason for going above the RS 48 0r 4810 is the extra on/off contrast if you need it. Huh? If you need it?

Yea. If you want to watch movies at a 2.4 or 2.5 gamma without the dreaded black crush, you will need a real on/off of around 40,000 to one. While the thre lower end models, RS 46, 48 and 4810 have a .best set up case of a minimum of 50,000 to one, unless you are set up at long throw, low lamp, minimum iris you won't get close to that. For real world set ups, the higher end models of a minimum of 90,000 and 130,000 and 130,000 to one will get you the needed 40,000 to one at close or mid throw and an iris open enough to get you a nice bright picture without having to go to High Power screen gain. Nothing like a flat smooth screen with a gain of one to get you thw best picture quality if you have a black pit room to support the dispersion with a gain of one screen. Its amazing how much improvement in PQ I got switching from 1.3 gain Studeotech to 1.0 gain Snomatt. smile.gif
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 9/13/12 at 7:45pm
post #223 of 1073
What are the size and weight of the new JVC projectors.? Same as last year models?
post #224 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

What are the size and weight of the new JVC projectors.? Same as last year models?

Same size and design. Not sure about the weight but it should be the same or very similar.
post #225 of 1073
Cool. Thanks!

The more I read about the new type bulb the more I am a believer.
Please some sceptic out there talk me out of this.
I've already heard from TOE.smile.gif
post #226 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerfan33 View Post

Cool. Thanks!
The more I read about the new type bulb the more I am a believer.
Please some sceptic out there talk me out of this.
I've already heard from TOE.smile.gif

Ok, sorry, I am going to talk you into it. You know how earlier someone said Marantz had used these type lamps in their projectors.....I had a Marantz VP12S1 projector and the lamp was rated for 2000 hours, well I had 5800+ hours on the lamp when I sold projector to a friend and I know he said he had put another 1000+ hours on it and he said lamp was still working but it was getting a little dim so he changed lamp. I used it on a 2.8 high power screen and at 5800 hours it was dim but still watchable and not too terribly dim so if that is any indication of these type of lamps I am sold.

Mike
post #227 of 1073
Why isn't this bulb type used more? I suspect its the cost of the DC power supply over using a cheaper AC power supply. Just a guess. There must be some negatives associated with a DC bulbs but if so, whatever they are, its clearly outweighed by long life and higher output, much higher output, after some age. Remember, the Marantz projectors were quite expensive using a lot of good stuff inside including great lenses, and Marantz gave up knowing they didn't want to cut corners but knowing how much prices were falling. Kudos to JVC for using its tremendous quatities of scale to bring out such good projectors at let's call it affordable prices.

You are welcome Bill. smile.gif
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 9/13/12 at 9:05pm
post #228 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbw23air View Post

Ok, sorry, I am going to talk you into it. You know how earlier someone said Marantz had used these type lamps in their projectors.....I had a Marantz VP12S1 projector and the lamp was rated for 2000 hours, well I had 5800+ hours on the lamp when I sold projector to a friend and I know he said he had put another 1000+ hours on it and he said lamp was still working but it was getting a little dim so he changed lamp. I used it on a 2.8 high power screen and at 5800 hours it was dim but still watchable and not too terribly dim so if that is any indication of these type of lamps I am sold.
Mike

that's an insane # of hours. It's a shame Marantz isn't in the business any more. Imagine a DC4 3D DLP with the Konica lens and 1300 lumens. cool.gif

Mark's comments on the new e-shift have me ready to check out the RS56 when it's released. He and I saw the same thing last year with e-shift, and liked it. It's especially effective on my 142" @ close seating distance. If they've improved it this year, I want to see it.
post #229 of 1073
Its improved by using an optically better (flatter and more transmissive eshift element), and by better pixel sampling and using a much wider bandwidth, to sample and adjust the entire range light frequencies, and better algs with increased processing horse power to crunch the numbers.
Edited by AV Science Sales 4 - 9/13/12 at 9:39pm
post #230 of 1073
i've heard enough.. remember I want JVC RS56 SN # 0000001, personally signed by MH.
post #231 of 1073
I'll come for the turn on and testing and will bring my 1000ES and a big can of black paint to darken the walls surrrounding your torch mode screen. You arr going to see a big jump in contrast when we spend $20 on some flat black paint.
post #232 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i've heard enough.. remember I want JVC RS56 SN # 0000001, personally signed by MH.

Ooooo that's gonna be a collectors item in the future! The signature alone will increase the value by double! wink.gifbiggrin.gif
post #233 of 1073
My autograph is already worth quite a bit especially if the check I sign with it is big. Take the check this month for my Am Ex bill which has the cost of my Sony 1000ES on it. Scary. I am going to bed. We will continue this serious and important discussion tomorrow.
post #234 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I fixed my post. We will be selling it and will offer installation where we can.


Do you offer installation in North East Ohio?
post #235 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

I'll come for the turn on and testing and will bring my 1000ES and a big can of black paint to darken the walls surrrounding your torch mode screen. You arr going to see a big jump in contrast when we spend $20 on some flat black paint.

Don't say that too loudly Mark otherwise some existing owners might realise they could get improved contrast for the cost of some black paint and not bother upgrading. wink.gif

RE the Autocal option verses buying the lesser model, plus Mini3D, sensor and either Chromapure or Calman: You'd still be in pocket even if you bought, say, an i1Pro spectro and a D3 to use as a field meter (Chromapure option, not sure if Calman do this), plus you'd have the 125 point 5x5x5 CMS instead of just the 7 axis JVC one. Even if it works as well as the older RS35 models, it still only corrects the colours at a single point and won't be accurate at all stimulations. IIRC even the RS20/25/35 models' CMS weren't that linear. The 5x5x5 cube will correct for linearity errors in the colour gamut response, so you'll get the correct colours at 25%,50%,75% and 100% (plus the points in between) rather than just at 75% or 100% (depending which point you adjust at). Plus you get 21 point greyscale and gamma rather than 10 of the JVC.

I don't even need to add any more regarding the upscaling, deinterlacing, etc, except to say it's probably still better than JVC's built in.

However, if you can afford the X95/RS66 and a Lumagen, then you're a very lucky person. cool.gif
post #236 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 4 View Post

Yea. If you want to watch movies at a 2.4 or 2.5 gamma without the dreaded black crush, you will need a real on/off of around 40,000 to one. While the thre lower end models, RS 46, 48 and 4810 have a .best set up case of a minimum of 50,000 to one, unless you are set up at long throw, low lamp, minimum iris you won't get close to that. For real world set ups, the higher end models of a minimum of 90,000 and 130,000 and 130,000 to one will get you the needed 40,000 to one at close or mid throw and an iris open enough to get you a nice bright picture without having to go to High Power screen gain. Nothing like a flat smooth screen with a gain of one to get you thw best picture quality if you have a black pit room to support the dispersion with a gain of one screen. Its amazing how much improvement in PQ I got switching from 1.3 gain Studeotech to 1.0 gain Snomatt. smile.gif

Its my understanding that the X75/RS56 gets its improved contrast ratio from the use of a second iris in front of the lamp, without closing down this second iris CR is about the same as the lower models. The problem is closing down this second iris reduces the projectors light output in proportion the the gain in contrast ratio which in most cases makes this "feature" useless. Only the top models X96/RS66 has a truly improved native contrast ratio due to hand picked components and more attention paid to the optical path, most of its improvement over the base model still comes from the use of the second iris.

If anyone has a link to some tests that show the X70/RS55 has greater CR than the X30/RS45 for the same brightness I would be very interested.
post #237 of 1073
Owen, check out the review test data from cine4home.com.de. They measured contrast and lumens at different iris, throw and lamp levels in their reviews and I used this data to work out that my old RS20 has a similar contrast ratio to the RS55 when run in high bulb and iris at mid to fully open. The newer projectors improve contrast over the older ones when the iris gets really clamped down (ie. at low brightness levels) but for those of us with bigger screens this isn't a practical scenario.
post #238 of 1073
I cant wait to hear the preorder price on the new low end jvc model
post #239 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Owen, check out the review test data from cine4home.com.de. They measured contrast and lumens at different iris, throw and lamp levels in their reviews and I used this data to work out that my old RS20 has a similar contrast ratio to the RS55 when run in high bulb and iris at mid to fully open. The newer projectors improve contrast over the older ones when the iris gets really clamped down (ie. at low brightness levels) but for those of us with bigger screens this isn't a practical scenario.


I have an HD250 on a 135" 16:9 screen at 14.5'. Would this suggest that going to an even bigger screen would have diminishing returns with contrast when using the newer brighter JVCs? Would the Sony/Epson/Panasonic offerings come closer in contrast to the JVCs the bigger one goes in screen size?
post #240 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandob View Post

Owen, check out the review test data from cine4home.com.de. They measured contrast and lumens at different iris, throw and lamp levels in their reviews and I used this data to work out that my old RS20 has a similar contrast ratio to the RS55 when run in high bulb and iris at mid to fully open. The newer projectors improve contrast over the older ones when the iris gets really clamped down (ie. at low brightness levels) but for those of us with bigger screens this isn't a practical scenario.

That's the one major benefit of my 142" 2.8 HP screen. I can run my RS55 @ -11 (or lower) and still have a large, bright image with excellent contrast.
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