JVC New Projectors Announced - CEDIA 2012 - Page 33

I think based on past history we should be nervously optimistic (at least I know the vets probably are now entering our third iteration), but here's hoping the old adage "third times a charm" comes true. Not quite ready to pull out the 3D-TS Woody quite yet but after reading the past couple reviews and talking to my buddy Mark I'm feeling more optimistic than nervous these days!

Plus let's not forget for those of us that actually did report the lamp issue JVC did step up and make good from a customer satisfaction standpoint. In my case I was way over the 90 day warranty yet they sent me out a brand new lamp no questions asked.

I fully believe JVC cares about customer satisfaction and after everything I went through with the RS50 they came through in spades to make me happy (along with Mark and Alan at AVS of course!).

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Some call him the anal retentive Gamut chef, but I just call him . . . The G-Man.

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Edited by krichter1 - 10/10/12 at 8:27pm

^^^ Try telling that to RS50/60 owners who took a huge blood bath on resale because of JVC's, over promised under delivered models.

JVC stood behind their product, but they really had no choice. When they blatantly put out a sub par product, they more or less backed themselves in a corner on lamp replacement. I'm sure there were a few that abused the return policy on them, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

JVC can give me a 1,000 hr lamp warranty, but that doesn't exactly give me peace of mind. If I am constantly having to recalibrate my projector and send lamps back after a few hundred hours because of premature dimming/failure, or suffering with extremely poor 3d performance, the warranty doesn't mean much.

JMTC.

I sold my RS50 for $4,000 *after* the new models were already released. It wasn't much of a hit at all for me since I bought it at the pre-order price. There's plenty of buyers out there. I have several people lined up for my 55 which was a much better projector IMO than the 50.

No one is forcing anyone to buy into the new models. There's going to be a ton of feedback from the early adopters. Sure you might miss out of the pre-order discount, but if it helps build confidence in the product a few months after it's been released, it's worth it.

I don't mind taking the first bullet because I'm primariy interested in the 2D performance upgrades. I was a fan of e-shift 1 on the 'big' 142" and can't wait to see what e-shift2 looks like.

I already have the W7000 which chews up ghosting and spits it out the other side with zero flicker. It's so easy on the eyes, 4+ hour 3D sprints are like watching 2D. This is the baseline for 3D performance. Certainly the ideal situation would be including JVC's contrast for the perfect 3D projector.

If JVC can match the HW30/5010's 3D performance, that would be a good day for them. It wasn't as flawless as the DLP, but pretty close and both were an enjoyable 3D experience compared to the current and previous model JVC's

If the DC lamps can perform anywhere near as well as they did with the Marantz, that would some serious extra pudding.

We'll hopefully find in ~8 weeks.

No matter how the ghosting turns out, flicker will still be an issue with the JVCs. I find flicker almost as bad as ghosting these days. There is no reason to think flicker will be any better this round. Hell, flicker will probably be worse this year than the last two since a brighter pic reveals it even more and it sounds like 3d brightness has gone up.

So you lucked out, but the majority of people didn't buy at deep discounted pre order pricing. And the 60 was considerably more than the 50 and isn't fetching any more on the used market; so I'd say they took a very big hit anyway you want to look at it.

My post was in response to the reply that all is good as JVC stepped up and warrantied the bulbs. Well, a new bulb didn't help the brightness issue on the RS50/60 did it? It also didn't help the resale value of the affected models. There is always an uneducated purchaser that is willing to pay more than market value. That doesn't mean everyone will be as lucky.

Look at how things have changed over the years with JVC. When the RS1 was released, it was regarded as the game changer for projectors. IMO, JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35 (for the most part). Sure they've had some good models, but as a whole, they have really fallen behind.

1) Poor 3d performance
2) Horrid bulb life
3) Broken CMS's.
4) Projectors not meeting specs

If you ask me, that's a lot of good reasons for people to jump off the JVC bandwagon. You have to be a pretty die hard fan to hang with them for this long after all their screw ups.

*That being said, I too am one of the hopeful optimists that is placing my eggs in the JVC bandwagon for this year. I'll be the first to say however; JVC botches this one and they're done for me.

Not to change the subject too much, but did JVC announce a more 'official' release date that I missed? 8 weeks from now is around December 6th time frame. Just curious. Up until now all I've heard is "some time in November". I'll be orderiing an X75 myself for those that are curious ...

Kal

According to Mike, end of Nov is the approximate time frame. It's obviously dependent on JVC though.

I was told late nov early dec for my rs46 preorder as well

I will be clear as day on this topic.



In regard to why people keep coming back - the core of this projector (RS55) is it's ability to produce a 2D image that, imo, cannot be matched for under 10K. I'm a huge dark sci-fi fan. There isn't a model in this price range that can produce the amazing image we see in the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution. A torture test for black level performance.

If they have approached this from the customer's perspective, then the engineers main focus would have been the following:

• improve 2D PQ even more with the upgraded e-shift2
• make sure the lamp issues are gone for good by going with a known lamp system that has a good track record for performance.
• Improve 3D ghosting

We've already heard positive comments from Cine4home on the e-shift2 and 3D improvements. That's a strong endorsement for me given his significant trust in the AV community. .

They used Sammy's Adventure for their test, a well known 3D torture test that I also used in the mini 3D shootout thread. To see an improvement here should be noticeable since there are scenes that are very tough on the 40/50/55/65.

I don't think JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35. I thought the RS55 was great.

I'm just hoping it goes smooth with my rs46 since it will be the first projector I ever owned

I thought the RS50 and 60 were the bump in the road for JVC. They just didn't have the brightness that the RS55 and 65's do. The CMS and lamp were also introduced with the 40/50/60 projectors. JVC has made steady progress with those lamps though and they did/have/are stepping up to the plate by exchanging defective lamps for customers even if they're well past the 90 day warranty. The Series 3 (flapper) lamp has quieted the lamp rhetoric so it appears they made a (late) but decent recovery on that issue. But lets face it the rap against JVC with these models is the lamp and (to a lesser extent) 3D performance. I think they made a brilliant move by going to a longer lasting slower dimming lamp. If executed properly (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) this is technically superior and it solves the perception problem JVC has with it's current lamps (the flapper lamps may have resolved the problem but even if it does it's going to take awhile for that to eradicate the lamp rap whereas a new lamp jumps starts the process). Asides from the longer lasting calibrations and less iris opening vs time because of the new lamp dimming qualities it may also solve the ghosting getting worse vs lamp time problem as well. This may well turn out to be the home run Mark talks about. JVC also dinged themselves last year by claiming improved 3D performance when many thought it was a step back. If the production models 3D performance is as improved as what we're reading then these new projectors are going to be very tough competition. Especially the 4810 I think.

I think we'd all like to see QA back to the level it was at with the RS25/35 projectors but I don't think JVC is alone in that regard (sadly).

The only problem I had with JVC on the past few model lamp issue is they never admitted to me about any issue. No matter what level tech I talked to they always said no issue exist.
That said, JVC did replace my lamp after blowing at 500 hours but I did have to press the matter.
The newer lamps have seem to fix the issue which makes me a happy camper again:)

I recently saw a Sony VPL-VW1000ES on a 120" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance, and it was amazing! Granted, I was not performing an A/B comparison, but my perception was that it looked better than my RS-35 on a 110" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance. I guess the big question is if JVC's E-Shift2 (on the RS4810) will provide as big of a "perceived" improvement in picture quality from my RS35 in my setup. It would appear that from initial reports, the answer would be "Yes!" With acquisition of the RS4810, I would be in a position to perform a direct A/B comparison between the RS35 and the RS4810.

I think this is the reason why I probably will not pull the trigger on the RS4810 pre-order when the time comes. I only watch one movie a week (if I am lucky), and I just purchased the RS35 recently. That is the way I am leaning now, but you can still try and sway me back in the other direction.

Mark

That's why I said, for the most part. That's one out of quite a few though.

If a car mfg had a lineup with every model but one coming back for constant recalls; I think it's safe to say the brand as a whole wouldn't last very long.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how this 4810 turns out), the JVC's are one of the few upper end pj's that will work in my room. I really wish Sony would increase their throw ratios as I would love to give them a try. DLP's won't work as my wife is sensitive to RBE. I wouldn't touch Panny and I have had good luck with Epson in the past but they aren't in the same league as JVC. I wanted to like the HC9000 but a poorly implemented DI and poor uniformity spoiled it.

I agree that the Sony1000 (have one) is a step up from the JVC's , but they are of course quite a step up in $.    I also agree with zombie's comment above, that for anything less than $10K one cannot (IMO) get a better pj than the JVC (had a RS20).

Agree'd unless we are talking about quality, lol.

I personally wish these mfg's would take the effort they are putting into 3d and use it for 2d r&d. You can only spend so much time and money on each individual model and this has to be divvied up between the tech. Think of how much better the 2d could really have been if the sole focus would have been in this area.

Most definitely agree with you on this!   I think most folks are cooling to the novelty of 3d (though I'm sure this opinion will elicit some disagreement!).

I'd be interested to hear what you think if you get chance to compare an RS35 with the RS4810: You might lose some on/off contrast (70,000:1 verses 50,000:1 IIRC) but gain the E-Shift, plus you wouldn't have the 'cherry picked' lens and other components of the higher tier RS35, but it would be an interesting comparison from a 2D POV anyway.


This is the third generation of JVCs with 3D and I'm upgrading to an X35/RS46 from a HD350/RS10 but without any emitter or glasses, so that probably tells you that I agree with this (though 3D does seem to give me a headache, so maybe I'm not the best candidate). However, I understood that some of the 3D improvements such as a brighter projector will still help 2D performance even if it's just to allow the iris to be further closed for a given light output, thus giving a higher on/off contrast.

In preparation for the new models coming out, would any happen to know if the form factor will fit, in terms of mounting, the existing Chief MFG mounts. Must get everything set up prior to the units shipping.

It's been confirmed they are using the same case as last year.

Bit of a daft question now I've ordered one, but I've made an assumption that the zoom range is the same as my old RS10: When I use my lens the image is slightly too big for my screen (I use my Lumagen to trim off a few pixels) so I don't want any bigger image at min zoom than I have now.

Mike (AVS 5), can you clarify the accuracy of this? I'm currently projectorless having sold my RS20. I don't mind waiting till early December as we originally talked about, but January would be a killer.

I dont think he can make a true confrimation on any date at all.. I know I already gave my credit card info for the full purchase and was told if I do I go to the top of the list for preorders.

I know a lot of it is up to JVC, I'm more curious about the pre order lineup. I'm sure AVS has some form of indication on how many they are going to receive. I guess I would hate to have to wait for the second round coming in.

From what I remember 2 years ago was not the norm as far as the slowness of consumer receiving projectors from JVC.
Last year was more in line as I and many here got there's early mid December.