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JVC New Projectors Announced - CEDIA 2012 - Page 33

post #961 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I understand why everyone is skeptical. I don't recall Cine4home making a statement like that last year, using the term 'significant improvement in 3D from last year' is no doubt raising the anticipation level. Of course it doesn't take into account the potential for flicker as we've seen in the previous models. I don't think anything is going to trump the DLP's in this regard. The DLP's are so fast, it's like watching 2D, no eye strain at all. I recently pained my way through 'Prometheus 3D' further proving that good 3D does not make a movie... good. (huge Aliens fan, WTF was this?)
The unanimously positive comments on the e-shift improvement is what has me excited for the RS56 to arrive. I was already a fan of e-shift 1 and can't wait to see what they changed.
Being able to control the sharpening based on the content (keeping blurred areas blurred) is excellent if it's well executed. This should easily surpass the RC sharpening technique on my relatively large screen. The increased pixel density alone is what makes a big difference for the RS55 vs. all other projectors I demo'd this year.


I think based on past history we should be nervously optimistic (at least I know the vets probably are now entering our third iteration), but here's hoping the old adage "third times a charm" comes true. Not quite ready to pull out the 3D-TS Woody quite yet but after reading the past couple reviews and talking to my buddy Mark I'm feeling more optimistic than nervous these days! biggrin.gif
post #962 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

That may be true. But it doesn't make what consumers think the truth.

Plus let's not forget for those of us that actually did report the lamp issue JVC did step up and make good from a customer satisfaction standpoint. In my case I was way over the 90 day warranty yet they sent me out a brand new lamp no questions asked.

I fully believe JVC cares about customer satisfaction and after everything I went through with the RS50 they came through in spades to make me happy (along with Mark and Alan at AVS of course!).

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post


So who is Geoff??

Some call him the anal retentive Gamut chef, but I just call him . . . The G-Man. biggrin.gif

.
Edited by krichter1 - 10/10/12 at 8:27pm
post #963 of 1073
^^^ Try telling that to RS50/60 owners who took a huge blood bath on resale because of JVC's, over promised under delivered models.

JVC stood behind their product, but they really had no choice. When they blatantly put out a sub par product, they more or less backed themselves in a corner on lamp replacement. I'm sure there were a few that abused the return policy on them, but that's the way the cookie crumbles.

JVC can give me a 1,000 hr lamp warranty, but that doesn't exactly give me peace of mind. If I am constantly having to recalibrate my projector and send lamps back after a few hundred hours because of premature dimming/failure, or suffering with extremely poor 3d performance, the warranty doesn't mean much.

JMTC.
post #964 of 1073
I sold my RS50 for $4,000 *after* the new models were already released. It wasn't much of a hit at all for me since I bought it at the pre-order price. There's plenty of buyers out there. I have several people lined up for my 55 which was a much better projector IMO than the 50.

No one is forcing anyone to buy into the new models. There's going to be a ton of feedback from the early adopters. Sure you might miss out of the pre-order discount, but if it helps build confidence in the product a few months after it's been released, it's worth it.
post #965 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by krichter1 View Post

I think based on past history we should be nervously optimistic (at least I know the vets probably are now entering our third iteration), but here's hoping the old adage "third times a charm" comes true. Not quite ready to pull out the 3D-TS Woody quite yet but after reading the past couple reviews and talking to my buddy Mark I'm feeling more optimistic than nervous these days! biggrin.gif

I don't mind taking the first bullet because I'm primariy interested in the 2D performance upgrades. I was a fan of e-shift 1 on the 'big' 142" and can't wait to see what e-shift2 looks like.

I already have the W7000 which chews up ghosting and spits it out the other side with zero flicker. It's so easy on the eyes, 4+ hour 3D sprints are like watching 2D. This is the baseline for 3D performance. Certainly the ideal situation would be including JVC's contrast for the perfect 3D projector.

If JVC can match the HW30/5010's 3D performance, that would be a good day for them. It wasn't as flawless as the DLP, but pretty close and both were an enjoyable 3D experience compared to the current and previous model JVC's

If the DC lamps can perform anywhere near as well as they did with the Marantz, that would some serious extra pudding.

We'll hopefully find in ~8 weeks.
post #966 of 1073
No matter how the ghosting turns out, flicker will still be an issue with the JVCs. I find flicker almost as bad as ghosting these days. There is no reason to think flicker will be any better this round. Hell, flicker will probably be worse this year than the last two since a brighter pic reveals it even more and it sounds like 3d brightness has gone up.
post #967 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I sold my RS50 for $4,000 *after* the new models were already released. It wasn't much of a hit at all for me since I bought it at the pre-order price.

So you lucked out, but the majority of people didn't buy at deep discounted pre order pricing. And the 60 was considerably more than the 50 and isn't fetching any more on the used market; so I'd say they took a very big hit anyway you want to look at it.
Quote:
There's plenty of buyers out there. I have several people lined up for my 55 which was a much better projector IMO than the 50.
No one is forcing anyone to buy into the new models. There's going to be a ton of feedback from the early adopters. Sure you might miss out of the pre-order discount, but if it helps build confidence in the product a few months after it's been released, it's worth it.

My post was in response to the reply that all is good as JVC stepped up and warrantied the bulbs. Well, a new bulb didn't help the brightness issue on the RS50/60 did it? It also didn't help the resale value of the affected models. There is always an uneducated purchaser that is willing to pay more than market value. That doesn't mean everyone will be as lucky.

Look at how things have changed over the years with JVC. When the RS1 was released, it was regarded as the game changer for projectors. IMO, JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35 (for the most part). Sure they've had some good models, but as a whole, they have really fallen behind.

1) Poor 3d performance
2) Horrid bulb life
3) Broken CMS's.
4) Projectors not meeting specs

If you ask me, that's a lot of good reasons for people to jump off the JVC bandwagon. You have to be a pretty die hard fan to hang with them for this long after all their screw ups.

*That being said, I too am one of the hopeful optimists that is placing my eggs in the JVC bandwagon for this year. I'll be the first to say however; JVC botches this one and they're done for me. smile.gif
post #968 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

We'll hopefully find in ~8 weeks.

Not to change the subject too much, but did JVC announce a more 'official' release date that I missed? 8 weeks from now is around December 6th time frame. Just curious. Up until now all I've heard is "some time in November". I'll be orderiing an X75 myself for those that are curious ...

Kal
post #969 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by kal View Post

Not to change the subject too much, but did JVC announce a more 'official' release date that I missed? 8 weeks from now is around December 6th time frame. Just curious. Up until now all I've heard is "some time in November". I'll be orderiing an X75 myself for those that are curious ...
Kal

According to Mike, end of Nov is the approximate time frame. It's obviously dependent on JVC though.
post #970 of 1073
I was told late nov early dec for my rs46 preorder as well
post #971 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

No matter how the ghosting turns out, flicker will still be an issue with the JVCs. I find flicker almost as bad as ghosting these days. There is no reason to think flicker will be any better this round. Hell, flicker will probably be worse this year than the last two since a brighter pic reveals it even more and it sounds like 3d brightness has gone up.

I will be clear as day on this topic. cool.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post


If you ask me, that's a lot of good reasons for people to jump off the JVC bandwagon. You have to be a pretty die hard fan to hang with them for this long after all their screw ups.

*That being said, I too am one of the hopeful optimists that is placing my eggs in the JVC bandwagon for this year. I'll be the first to say however; JVC botches this one and they're done for me. smile.gif


In regard to why people keep coming back - the core of this projector (RS55) is it's ability to produce a 2D image that, imo, cannot be matched for under 10K. I'm a huge dark sci-fi fan. There isn't a model in this price range that can produce the amazing image we see in the first 10 minutes of Underworld Evolution. A torture test for black level performance.

If they have approached this from the customer's perspective, then the engineers main focus would have been the following:

  • improve 2D PQ even more with the upgraded e-shift2
  • make sure the lamp issues are gone for good by going with a known lamp system that has a good track record for performance.
  • Improve 3D ghosting

We've already heard positive comments from Cine4home on the e-shift2 and 3D improvements. That's a strong endorsement for me given his significant trust in the AV community. .

They used Sammy's Adventure for their test, a well known 3D torture test that I also used in the mini 3D shootout thread. To see an improvement here should be noticeable since there are scenes that are very tough on the 40/50/55/65.
post #972 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

So you lucked out, but the majority of people didn't buy at deep discounted pre order pricing. And the 60 was considerably more than the 50 and isn't fetching any more on the used market; so I'd say they took a very big hit anyway you want to look at it.
My post was in response to the reply that all is good as JVC stepped up and warrantied the bulbs. Well, a new bulb didn't help the brightness issue on the RS50/60 did it? It also didn't help the resale value of the affected models. There is always an uneducated purchaser that is willing to pay more than market value. That doesn't mean everyone will be as lucky.
Look at how things have changed over the years with JVC. When the RS1 was released, it was regarded as the game changer for projectors. IMO, JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35 (for the most part). Sure they've had some good models, but as a whole, they have really fallen behind.
1) Poor 3d performance
2) Horrid bulb life
3) Broken CMS's.
4) Projectors not meeting specs
If you ask me, that's a lot of good reasons for people to jump off the JVC bandwagon. You have to be a pretty die hard fan to hang with them for this long after all their screw ups.
*That being said, I too am one of the hopeful optimists that is placing my eggs in the JVC bandwagon for this year. I'll be the first to say however; JVC botches this one and they're done for me. smile.gif

I don't think JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35. I thought the RS55 was great.
post #973 of 1073
I'm just hoping it goes smooth with my rs46 since it will be the first projector I ever owned
post #974 of 1073
I thought the RS50 and 60 were the bump in the road for JVC. They just didn't have the brightness that the RS55 and 65's do. The CMS and lamp were also introduced with the 40/50/60 projectors. JVC has made steady progress with those lamps though and they did/have/are stepping up to the plate by exchanging defective lamps for customers even if they're well past the 90 day warranty. The Series 3 (flapper) lamp has quieted the lamp rhetoric so it appears they made a (late) but decent recovery on that issue. But lets face it the rap against JVC with these models is the lamp and (to a lesser extent) 3D performance. I think they made a brilliant move by going to a longer lasting slower dimming lamp. If executed properly (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) this is technically superior and it solves the perception problem JVC has with it's current lamps (the flapper lamps may have resolved the problem but even if it does it's going to take awhile for that to eradicate the lamp rap whereas a new lamp jumps starts the process). Asides from the longer lasting calibrations and less iris opening vs time because of the new lamp dimming qualities it may also solve the ghosting getting worse vs lamp time problem as well. This may well turn out to be the home run Mark talks about. JVC also dinged themselves last year by claiming improved 3D performance when many thought it was a step back. If the production models 3D performance is as improved as what we're reading then these new projectors are going to be very tough competition. Especially the 4810 I think.

I think we'd all like to see QA back to the level it was at with the RS25/35 projectors but I don't think JVC is alone in that regard (sadly).
post #975 of 1073
The only problem I had with JVC on the past few model lamp issue is they never admitted to me about any issue. No matter what level tech I talked to they always said no issue exist.
That said, JVC did replace my lamp after blowing at 500 hours but I did have to press the matter.
The newer lamps have seem to fix the issue which makes me a happy camper again:)
post #976 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Yea. It would matter. This bit about sittting 1.8 or 1.4 is not at all determinative. The picture has a much great degree of realism and it is not at all dependent on sitting so close as to be able to see minute detail. I sit at about 1.5 and 4HD or 4K looks so much like I am there instead of watching video etc. Of cpourse some of this may be due to having a machine of the optical quality of the 1000ES rather than just going from 1080p to 4HD or 4K. I would try it first before you reach any determination. i suspect you would be keeping it.

I recently saw a Sony VPL-VW1000ES on a 120" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance, and it was amazing! Granted, I was not performing an A/B comparison, but my perception was that it looked better than my RS-35 on a 110" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance. I guess the big question is if JVC's E-Shift2 (on the RS4810) will provide as big of a "perceived" improvement in picture quality from my RS35 in my setup. It would appear that from initial reports, the answer would be "Yes!" With acquisition of the RS4810, I would be in a position to perform a direct A/B comparison between the RS35 and the RS4810.

I think this is the reason why I probably will not pull the trigger on the RS4810 pre-order when the time comes. I only watch one movie a week (if I am lucky), and I just purchased the RS35 recently. That is the way I am leaning now, but you can still try and sway me back in the other direction.eek.gif

Mark
post #977 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by blee0120 View Post

I don't think JVC has dropped the ball since the RS35. I thought the RS55 was great.

That's why I said, for the most part. wink.gif That's one out of quite a few though.

If a car mfg had a lineup with every model but one coming back for constant recalls; I think it's safe to say the brand as a whole wouldn't last very long.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on how this 4810 turns out), the JVC's are one of the few upper end pj's that will work in my room. I really wish Sony would increase their throw ratios as I would love to give them a try. DLP's won't work as my wife is sensitive to RBE. I wouldn't touch Panny and I have had good luck with Epson in the past but they aren't in the same league as JVC. I wanted to like the HC9000 but a poorly implemented DI and poor uniformity spoiled it.
post #978 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post


I recently saw a Sony VPL-VW1000ES on a 120" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance, and it was amazing! Granted, I was not performing an A/B comparison, but my perception was that it looked better than my RS-35 on a 110" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance. I guess the big question is if JVC's E-Shift2 (on the RS4810) will provide as big of a "perceived" improvement in picture quality from my RS35 in my setup. It would appear that from initial reports, the answer would be "Yes!" With acquisition of the RS4810, I would be in a position to perform a direct A/B comparison between the RS35 and the RS4810.
I think this is the reason why I probably will not pull the trigger on the RS4810 pre-order when the time comes. I only watch one movie a week (if I am lucky), and I just purchased the RS35 recently. That is the way I am leaning now, but you can still try and sway me back in the other direction.eek.gif
Mark


I agree that the Sony1000 (have one) is a step up from the JVC's , but they are of course quite a step up in $.    I also agree with zombie's comment above, that for anything less than $10K one cannot (IMO) get a better pj than the JVC (had a RS20).

post #979 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


I agree that the Sony1000 (have one) is a step up from the JVC's , but they are of course quite a step up in $.    I also agree with zombie's comment above, that for anything less than $10K one cannot (IMO) get a better pj than the JVC (had a RS20).

Agree'd unless we are talking about quality, lol.

I personally wish these mfg's would take the effort they are putting into 3d and use it for 2d r&d. You can only spend so much time and money on each individual model and this has to be divvied up between the tech. Think of how much better the 2d could really have been if the sole focus would have been in this area.
post #980 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post


Agree'd unless we are talking about quality, lol.
I personally wish these mfg's would take the effort they are putting into 3d and use it for 2d r&d. You can only spend so much time and money on each individual model and this has to be divvied up between the tech. Think of how much better the 2d could really have been if the sole focus would have been in this area.


Most definitely agree with you on this!   I think most folks are cooling to the novelty of 3d (though I'm sure this opinion will elicit some disagreement!).

post #981 of 1073
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

According to Mike, end of Nov is the approximate time frame. It's obviously dependent on JVC though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I was told late nov early dec for my rs46 preorder as well

If this year's JVC deliveries goes like the last two years, the first few customers with JVC pre-orders will receive their new projector around mid-December and then many more with pre-orders (perhaps all remaining with pre-orders) will receive their new JVC projectors in Jan. 2013. When JVC says end of November to begin shipping that seems to mean they will begin shipping from Asia to JVC USA by the end of November then JVC USA must ship out to dealer's/distributors from their California warehouse (takes about a week to get to AVS in NY)
post #982 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

I recently saw a Sony VPL-VW1000ES on a 120" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance, and it was amazing! Granted, I was not performing an A/B comparison, but my perception was that it looked better than my RS-35 on a 110" diagaonal 1.78 screen at 1.5 SW seating distance. I guess the big question is if JVC's E-Shift2 (on the RS4810) will provide as big of a "perceived" improvement in picture quality from my RS35 in my setup. It would appear that from initial reports, the answer would be "Yes!" With acquisition of the RS4810, I would be in a position to perform a direct A/B comparison between the RS35 and the RS4810.
I think this is the reason why I probably will not pull the trigger on the RS4810 pre-order when the time comes. I only watch one movie a week (if I am lucky), and I just purchased the RS35 recently. That is the way I am leaning now, but you can still try and sway me back in the other direction.eek.gif
Mark

I'd be interested to hear what you think if you get chance to compare an RS35 with the RS4810: You might lose some on/off contrast (70,000:1 verses 50,000:1 IIRC) but gain the E-Shift, plus you wouldn't have the 'cherry picked' lens and other components of the higher tier RS35, but it would be an interesting comparison from a 2D POV anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post


Most definitely agree with you on this!   I think most folks are cooling to the novelty of 3d (though I'm sure this opinion will elicit some disagreement!).

This is the third generation of JVCs with 3D and I'm upgrading to an X35/RS46 from a HD350/RS10 but without any emitter or glasses, so that probably tells you that I agree with this (though 3D does seem to give me a headache, so maybe I'm not the best candidate). However, I understood that some of the 3D improvements such as a brighter projector will still help 2D performance even if it's just to allow the iris to be further closed for a given light output, thus giving a higher on/off contrast.
post #983 of 1073
In preparation for the new models coming out, would any happen to know if the form factor will fit, in terms of mounting, the existing Chief MFG mounts. Must get everything set up prior to the units shipping.
post #984 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

In preparation for the new models coming out, would any happen to know if the form factor will fit, in terms of mounting, the existing Chief MFG mounts. Must get everything set up prior to the units shipping.

It's been confirmed they are using the same case as last year.
post #985 of 1073
Bit of a daft question now I've ordered one, but I've made an assumption that the zoom range is the same as my old RS10: When I use my lens the image is slightly too big for my screen (I use my Lumagen to trim off a few pixels) so I don't want any bigger image at min zoom than I have now. eek.gif
post #986 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsform1 View Post

In preparation for the new models coming out, would any happen to know if the form factor will fit, in terms of mounting, the existing Chief MFG mounts. Must get everything set up prior to the units shipping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

It's been confirmed they are using the same case as last year.

And the year before. So the RS40/50/60/45/55/65/46/48/4810/56 and 66 all share the same case.
Reply
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post #987 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones View Post

If this year's JVC deliveries goes like the last two years, the first few customers with JVC pre-orders will receive their new projector around mid-December and then many more with pre-orders (perhaps all remaining with pre-orders) will receive their new JVC projectors in Jan. 2013. When JVC says end of November to begin shipping that seems to mean they will begin shipping from Asia to JVC USA by the end of November then JVC USA must ship out to dealer's/distributors from their California warehouse (takes about a week to get to AVS in NY)

Mike (AVS 5), can you clarify the accuracy of this? I'm currently projectorless having sold my RS20. I don't mind waiting till early December as we originally talked about, but January would be a killer.
post #988 of 1073
I dont think he can make a true confrimation on any date at all.. I know I already gave my credit card info for the full purchase and was told if I do I go to the top of the list for preorders.
post #989 of 1073
Quote:
Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post

I dont think he can make a true confrimation on any date at all.. I know I already gave my credit card info for the full purchase and was told if I do I go to the top of the list for preorders.

I know a lot of it is up to JVC, I'm more curious about the pre order lineup. I'm sure AVS has some form of indication on how many they are going to receive. I guess I would hate to have to wait for the second round coming in. smile.gif
post #990 of 1073
From what I remember 2 years ago was not the norm as far as the slowness of consumer receiving projectors from JVC.
Last year was more in line as I and many here got there's early mid December.
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