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HSU Hybrid 1 or HTD Level THREE?

post #1 of 24
9/6/12 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
I'm looking for a 5.1 setup for a 14' x 15' room in my apartment. My budget is under $1400 including sub.

For speakers, I'm set on bookshelves instead of floorstanding - they're smaller and are a better value imo. None of those puny cube speakers will do either.

Hoping to stick with a 10" sub for as this is an apartment, so I can't play it all that loud. I think that should be sufficient for a room of this size.
- I'm pretty set on the HSU VTF-1 MK2 as I like the deep bass extension it can provide. I'm open to suggestions, though.

At the moment, the two sets of speakers/combos that I've roughly narrowed it down to are those in the title.
- HSU Hybrid 1 (http://hsuresearch.com/products/hybrid1pkg.html) $1324 shipped
- HTD Level Three + HSU VTF-1 MK2 (http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers) $921 + 494 = $1415 shipped

I'm intrigued by the ribbon tweeter in the HTD speakers as well as their surrounds, but the HSUs are legit as well.
Are there any similar setups that you would recommend for this range (or more mix-match of the above)?

I also need a receiver, budgeted separately at under $300.

Right now I'm ready to go with the DENON AVR-1912 from accessories4less. I like the features it has over the 1712.
Also for the same price is the Onkyo TX-NR609. Right now I'm set on the Denon because I like its looks more than the Onkyo haha, so please give me your thoughts.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 24
9/6/12 at 7:49pm
One thing I would say is both the HTD and Hsu HB-1 speakers would be overkill for the surrounds. The surround channels are never called to do that much, usually just ambient noises, and you don't need a beefy speaker to reproduce the wind blowing or rain or sirens. I think either the Hsu or HTD speakers would make for a good front stage, but since you are on a limited budget, just buy some inexpensive bookshelf speakers for surrounds, and invest that money into a better receiver. Here are some that, although might not be as good as your front stage considerations, would still do just as good for surrounds:

BIC America DV62si Bookshelf Speakers: $108 a pair
Polk Audio RTi6 pair: $184
Yamaha NS-333 pair: $200
Pioneer SP-BS21-LR pair: $150
Infinity Primus p153 pair: $150

None of them are little satellite speakers so they won't be tinny speakers with no range or punch, and I think they would all serve as surrounds just as well as the speakers you are considering while costing less. By the way, the best and only affordable bookshelf speaker mount I can recommend is the AM40 Pinpoint mounts, these things are terrific, they can hold the weight of larger bookshelf speakers just fine, and they won't require you to drill holes in your speakers like almost every other mount does.
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post #3 of 24
9/6/12 at 8:16pm
HTD is good and the tweeter is nice - however for surrounds, I would buy the
Level Two speakers.
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-two-speakers/Level-TWO-Bookshelf-Speakers
Edited by zieglj01 - 9/6/12 at 8:26pm
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post #4 of 24
9/6/12 at 11:46pm
Thread Starter 
Hm both those options would save me at least $100. Nice, I'm down with that haha.

Is the Denon 1912 not powerful enough to drive the speakers? What receiver would you get then for 399 range? Denon AVR-2112CI or perhaps Onkyo TX-NR709?
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post #5 of 24
9/7/12 at 12:28am
The Denon 1912 is powerful enough. If you wanted a better receiver then that, aim for one with a better version of Audyssey, which would be Audyssey MultiEQ XT. I believe the Denon 2112 and Onkyo 709 have that. Remember you also have to buy stuff like cables and accessories, those aren't free. Save yourself some money and get that stuff from Monoprice. Personally I get nervous about onkyo receivers, they run awfully hot.
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post #6 of 24
9/7/12 at 6:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The Denon 1912 is powerful enough. If you wanted a better receiver then that, aim for one with a better version of Audyssey, which would be Audyssey MultiEQ XT. I believe the Denon 2112 and Onkyo 709 have that. Remember you also have to buy stuff like cables and accessories, those aren't free. Save yourself some money and get that stuff from Monoprice. Personally I get nervous about onkyo receivers, they run awfully hot.

Is the MultiEQ XT noticeably better than plain MultiEQ? It's a $60 upgrade essentially. I'm not the biggest fan of the Onkyo receiver I have at home, so I think I will end up with one of the Denons.

Already have bought the needed cables from monoprice, save for speaker wire itself. I imagine that 12 gauge is overkill, would 16 be okay? My cable runs would be 20-25' at the max for the surrounds, only a few feet for the LCR.
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post #7 of 24
9/7/12 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by despot View Post

Is the MultiEQ XT noticeably better than plain MultiEQ? It's a $60 upgrade essentially. I'm not the biggest fan of the Onkyo receiver I have at home, so I think I will end up with one of the Denons.
Already have bought the needed cables from monoprice, save for speaker wire itself. I imagine that 12 gauge is overkill, would 16 be okay? My cable runs would be 20-25' at the max for the surrounds, only a few feet for the LCR.

I think it is well worth the $60. I don't have XT (just MultiEQ) but will have XT for sure in my next receiver. I have owned about 6 Onkyo receivers and this is my first Denon and I am very impressed. Would definitively buy another.
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post #8 of 24
9/7/12 at 7:25am
actually I like 14ga wire. Not at thick as 12ga but thicker than 16ga. for your distances 16ga will be fine but I would get 14ga just because I like the thickness better.

Also recommend using banana plugs on the receiver terminals. Nothing more annoying than wiring 5 or 7 speaker terminals on the back of the receiver with bare wire, especially if you use an entertainment center or armoire. Just makes things look cleaner too.

If you only plan to have a 5.1 setup, what about the Denon AVR 1713? That way you get Audyssey MultEQ XT, USB input and Airplay?
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1713/DENON-AVR-1713-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html

What devices will you be connecting?
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post #9 of 24
9/7/12 at 8:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

actually I like 14ga wire. Not at thick as 12ga but thicker than 16ga. for your distances 16ga will be fine but I would get 14ga just because I like the thickness better.
Also recommend using banana plugs on the receiver terminals. Nothing more annoying than wiring 5 or 7 speaker terminals on the back of the receiver with bare wire, especially if you use an entertainment center or armoire. Just makes things look cleaner too.
If you only plan to have a 5.1 setup, what about the Denon AVR 1713? That way you get Audyssey MultEQ XT, USB input and Airplay?
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1713/DENON-AVR-1713-5.1ch-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay-3D-Ready/1.html
What devices will you be connecting?

Hm the 1713 definitely looks appealing. One nice feature of the 1912 is the analog video conversion so that everything will go over HDMI. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I'll ever make use of the feature.
I'll be connecting at the least an XBOX 360 and an HTPC.

Already have banana plugs, they're definitely awesome to use on the receiver end! I'll look into the 14ga cable; I actually considered the 16ga because it was thinner, will make it a bit easier to hide/route the cables.

EDIT: I noticed the 1713 is 80W per channel versus 90W for the 1912. Is 80W fine for the speakers?
Edited by despot - 9/7/12 at 11:34am
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post #10 of 24
9/7/12 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ack_bk View Post

I think it is well worth the $60. I don't have XT (just MultiEQ) but will have XT for sure in my next receiver. I have owned about 6 Onkyo receivers and this is my first Denon and I am very impressed. Would definitively buy another.

It's a higher resolution EQ, so it should make a flatter frequency response over a wider listening area, but I haven't heard plain MultiEQ so I don't know how they really compare.
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post #11 of 24
9/7/12 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

The Denon 1912 is powerful enough. If you wanted a better receiver then that, aim for one with a better version of Audyssey, which would be Audyssey MultiEQ XT. I believe the Denon 2112 and Onkyo 709 have that. Remember you also have to buy stuff like cables and accessories, those aren't free. Save yourself some money and get that stuff from Monoprice. Personally I get nervous about onkyo receivers, they run awfully hot.

I feel that a lot of the bad rap about Onkyo's running hot is people stuffing them into entertainment centers without proper ventilation. I have had my Onkyo 1008 for almost two years and have had no issues with it and never was it hot to the point you can't touch it like some people claim.
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post #12 of 24
9/7/12 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smigro View Post

I feel that a lot of the bad rap about Onkyo's running hot is people stuffing them into entertainment centers without proper ventilation. I have had my Onkyo 1008 for almost two years and have had no issues with it and never was it hot to the point you can't touch it like some people claim.

I have never had any issues with any of my Onkyo equipment overheating, or too hot to touch. That said it does run hotter than my Denon, but I don't think it is a dealbreaker at all.
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post #13 of 24
9/7/12 at 6:31pm
Thread Starter 
I'm leaning towards Denon right now actually because of its looks, it'll mesh well with my brushed aluminum HTPC. I don't really see any compelling reason to go with an Onkyo over the Denon (not that Onkyo's are bad, just don't see an advantage).

So right now my plan is:

Receiver: DENON AVR-1713 (only 80W per channel, is that enough?)
Surrounds: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (currently on sale for $99!)
Subwoofer: HSU VTF-1 MK2

Still can't decide between the HSUs or HTDs for the left center right speakers. Anyone have thoughts?
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post #14 of 24
9/7/12 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by despot View Post

So right now my plan is:
Receiver: DENON AVR-1713 (only 80W per channel, is that enough?)
Surrounds: Pioneer SP-BS22-LR (currently on sale for $99!)
Subwoofer: HSU VTF-1 MK2
Still can't decide between the HSUs or HTDs for the left center right speakers. Anyone have thoughts?

With Pioneer that is the right decision, to go with the latest model. You can move them
to the surround position later - however be careful, because they do sound good.smile.gif

When it comes time to upgrade, find a way to test them both - they have a return policy.
The Denon receiver is fine >> you will be hard pressed to hear a difference between the
80 and 90 watts.
Edited by zieglj01 - 9/7/12 at 6:43pm
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post #15 of 24
9/7/12 at 6:59pm
Thread Starter 
Awesome, thank you all so much for your help so far smile.gif I think I will start off with the HTD speakers, as I really really want to try out the ribbon tweeter haha. If I'm unsatisfied at all I'll trial out the HSUs and make a decision, hopefully won't have to though as I'll have to eat a bunch in shipping costs.
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post #16 of 24
9/7/12 at 7:14pm
Denon 2112 and hsu HB's, hsu center, pioneer surrounds and try to get the hsu 2.4 if you can. That 12" makes a big difference for digging low for HT.

butter and jelly please.
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post #17 of 24
9/7/12 at 7:26pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pukemon View Post

Denon 2112 and hsu HB's, hsu center, pioneer surrounds and try to get the hsu 2.4 if you can. That 12" makes a big difference for digging low for HT.
butter and jelly please.

I'm in an apartment building, so definitely can't get a bigger sub :-/

Out of curiosity, why the 2112 over the 1713? 1713 is wireless. has front HDMI, and has MultEQ XT as well; 2112 seems to only offer an extra 10w per channel. I have no desire to ever get 7.1, so having a 5.1 receiver is not a problem.

Similarly, any reason for going HSUs over HTD? I haven't seen much of a comparison between the two, so I'm just trying to understand the reasoning.
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post #18 of 24
9/7/12 at 8:14pm
despot, I believe the Hsu speakers are silk dome tweeters which are horn-loaded, as opposed to the HTD's ribbon tweeters. If I had to guess I would think the HTD's might be a bit more crisper and detailed, but not be as robust as the Hsu tweeters, whereas the Hsu speakers may be more laid back but capable of higher SPL respectively and could possibly have a greater dynamic range. This is only speculation based on specs, I have only heard the Hsu speakers personally, but this is the difference I would expect.
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post #19 of 24
9/9/12 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
Gotcha, that makes sense. The few reviews I've seen for the HTDs do describe the tweeter as you're saying. One described how he could hear a more 'physical' aspect of a trumpet for example.

I think I will buy both sets and demo them out. As a first time customer, HTD will pay return shipping if I'm not satisfied within 30 days. HSU charges for return shipping, but I'd gladly pay it if needed so as to prevent buyer's regret down the line.
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post #20 of 24
9/9/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by despot View Post

Gotcha, that makes sense. The few reviews I've seen for the HTDs do describe the tweeter as you're saying. One described how he could hear a more 'physical' aspect of a trumpet for example.
I think I will buy both sets and demo them out. As a first time customer, HTD will pay return shipping if I'm not satisfied within 30 days. HSU charges for return shipping, but I'd gladly pay it if needed so as to prevent buyer's regret down the line.

The HTD will not be forward, harsh or edgy sounding, there is no treble boost >> They are not voiced
to jump out at you. This is the third mod to the ribbon tweeter. The cabinet is well built and is crossed
braced, and no cheaply built crossover > They will throw a nice soundstage, and they can/will take the
power - and will get loud. They do have decent dynamics for home theater, with some nice bass - how
ever, they are not made for man-cave listening levels.

It will come down to over-all preference and choice - good luck.
Edited by zieglj01 - 9/9/12 at 5:22pm
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post #21 of 24
9/17/12 at 5:19pm
Zieglj01, can you elaborate what you mean about the HTD's not being made for man-cave listening levels? I'm considering potentially using their speakers (level two or three for bipole) for surrounds to go with my Paradigm Titans up front. It'll be in a basement dedicated home theater, roughly 13x16x8. I want it to get loud when I crank it for movies. Thoughts?

Thanks!

Viper
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post #22 of 24
9/17/12 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper04468 View Post

Zieglj01, can you elaborate what you mean about the HTD's not being made for man-cave listening levels? I'm considering potentially using their speakers (level two or three for bipole) for surrounds to go with my Paradigm Titans up front. It'll be in a basement dedicated home theater, roughly 13x16x8. I want it to get loud when I crank it for movies. Thoughts?
Thanks! Viper
I am talking about extreme volume levels.

They will keep up with your Titan speakers, and then some >> the Level Three
is more dynamic than the older Titan speakers. However, neither speaker will
play at Imax or Rock-concert volume
Edited by zieglj01 - 9/17/12 at 6:08pm
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post #23 of 24
9/18/12 at 6:08pm
Thanks. Good to know. Whatever direction I go, I want the system to sound good at lower levels as well as really kick when explosions rock the house. That said, I won't be trying to make my ears bleed. I kind of wish that I lived closer to them so I could audition their speakers. I have a feeling that looking for a couple of surround speakers is going to turn into a case of upgrade-itis and I'm going to end up with a complete new system....So what do you think about HTD Level Three Towers up front with their center? That should get pretty loud and sound good, right? I would be upgrading to a current Onkyo/Integra or Denon or Pioneer receiver at the same time.
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post #24 of 24
9/18/12 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper04468 View Post

So what do you think about HTD Level Three Towers up front with their center? That should get pretty loud and sound good, right? I would be upgrading to a current Onkyo/Integra or Denon or Pioneer receiver at the same time.

That can make a nice system for you - they can play and handle loud volumes for
both, movies and music.
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