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How is the SW112 compared to the high end subs?

post #1 of 30
9/6/12 at 6:25pm
Thread Starter 
I am new into Home theater. I always bought home theater in the box setups and never really cared. Until I bought a PSB Alpha speaker by chance and realized that I wasted my life before that. I now have a PSB Alpha B1 Fronts, Alpha C1 as Center and LR as surround. I tried using the Harman Karon Home theater sub (which I had before) but it was not sounding good and did not have the feel I wanted. Before the PSBs I was happy with its sound though.

My budget is $500 and can flex a bit.

I went out and got the SW112. It sounds 10 times better than my HTIB sub but I am curious. Does going to a better sub (like SVS) within $1000 make a dramatic difference or do you need to be a audiophile to "see" it. From HTIB to SW112 it was dramatic, the low frequency just was not there in the normal sub. Will going to something high end will make the same impact, or is it too subtle? I tested the SW112 and it does go to 27hz but not any lower and "port noise" is distracting during tests (not during movies)

I know the SVS type of subs will be better than SW112 but I am asking (a very subjective question) that, is it something easily noted?

Sorry for the vague question but I just don't want to find after another 10 years that I have been wasting my life again.....
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post #2 of 30
9/6/12 at 6:29pm
A sub like the SVS PB12-NSD will dig down to 18Hz, will hit harder than the SW-112...and you will notice the difference - including the lack of port noise - even if you're not an "audiophile". cool.gif
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post #3 of 30
9/6/12 at 6:38pm
Thread Starter 
Ok. The price is around $800 for the SVS. Its almost twice the cost but I guess I am a bit cautious not to take any chances.

Is there a smaller sub than NSD with same impact or do I have to buy a 24" monster to feel the impact?
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post #4 of 30
9/6/12 at 6:46pm
SVS does have the SB12-NSD, the PB12's smaller, sealed sibling ($649, shipped). It would dig a bit deeper than the SW-112, it might sound a bit tighter and cleaner and, because it's sealed, there wouldn't be any port noise. But while I suspect it would perform better overall than the SW-112, I don't know if you'd find it to be "that much better". I have no such doubts about the PB12. smile.gif
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post #5 of 30
9/6/12 at 6:56pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks. I will check the SB12-NSD.

Is there something out there that has the impact of a large sub but is smaller (maybe at higher cost)? Or is that just not possible
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post #6 of 30
9/6/12 at 7:07pm
Actually, the SSA Rumba 12 might be worth investigating. There's good buzz about it here on AVS.
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post #7 of 30
9/6/12 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Actually, the SSA Rumba 12 might be worth investigating. There's good buzz about it here on AVS.

Yeah the Rumba looks like a very serious sealed sub. Looks like a beefed up version of the SVS SB12nsd. Thinking about picking up a pair myself.
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post #8 of 30
9/7/12 at 8:18am
Thread Starter 
Rumba is almost $1000 with shipping in Canada. A bit out of my limit. I think I will try to fit in a SVS PB12 in my setup
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post #9 of 30
9/7/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

Rumba is almost $1000 with shipping in Canada. A bit out of my limit. I think I will try to fit in a SVS PB12 in my setup

Wow really eek.gif

$350-400 for shipping? Have you contacted Murrel from SSA? If your interested in the Rumba 12 maybe he can help you out. But the PB12 NSD is a better choice for HT if you can fit it in your setup.
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post #10 of 30
9/8/12 at 2:54pm
Thread Starter 
"Murrel from SSA" did not get that. Can you pls elaborate ?

I am seriously thinking SVS (its $850 right now).
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post #11 of 30
9/8/12 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

"Murrel from SSA" did not get that. Can you pls elaborate ?
I am seriously thinking SVS (its $850 right now).

Murrel is the guy who owns/started Simply Sound Audio which makes the Rumba 12.

Murrel J Gray

Owner Simply Sound Audio LLC

simplysound@msn.com

720-849-6697
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post #12 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:21am
Thread Starter 
Ok. I sent an email to him on shipping cost.

I have one more question, with SW112 half the price of a SVS sub, is it better to have one SVS or two SW112? Which will be cleaner and lower?
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post #13 of 30
9/9/12 at 5:48am
The SVS PB12 NSD will pretty much destroy the SW112. The only advantage a pair of SW112s will have is a more even flat freq response through out the room and may have more output in the upper bass range. But I would say that below 40hrz the SVS will out do the SW112 pair. You get more tactile response from the SVS too, you'll feel the bass a lot more than with the SW112, with room gain you go get as low at 16-18hrz from the SVS.

But if your happy with the SW112 and not pushing it beyond its limits than I think you would be even happier with a second one.
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post #14 of 30
9/9/12 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

Ok. I sent an email to him on shipping cost.
I have one more question, with SW112 half the price of a SVS sub, is it better to have one SVS or two SW112? Which will be cleaner and lower?

You'd be better served with two SVS PB12-NSD subs. Between the Klipsch and the SVS sub, both are clean, well designed subs. The SVS PB12-NSD, extends it's energy lower and that's what you're paying for between the Klipsch and the SVS. Both are excellent value plays. The question is, how far can you extend your wallet?

For the price, if you go with Klipsch, you'll be getting an excellent sub. If you can go with SVS, you'll be getting a much better sub. Either way, at each price point, pretty much, you'd be getting the best. It's all about money and remember, always buy two subs. tongue.gif

FWIW, as soon as we can afford to, we'll be upgrading our current pair of 12" Klipsch subs to a pair of SVS PB12-NSD subs. I will consider it a two fold order of magnitude in quality increase. I'm not knocking the Klipsch subs. It's just that the SVS PB12-NSD subs are that much better and well worth buying for the bass quality they'll bring to the home theater experience.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 9/9/12 at 12:24pm
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post #15 of 30
9/9/12 at 1:36pm
Thread Starter 
OK. SVS it is then.

While trying to order one, I came across a PB10 NSD that maybe available (used. They are disconnected now). From the logic above two PB10 will be better then one PB12? Good thing about PB12 is that its the latest 400W one and there is 45 days return. With PB10, it will be no option to go back. Online feedback says that PB10 is as good as PB12, but there is no comparison between the NEW PB12 vs the old PB10
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post #16 of 30
9/9/12 at 2:50pm
What About the PSA XV15?
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post #17 of 30
9/9/12 at 3:24pm
I've owned the BASH-equipped PB10-NSD and PB12-NSD. Both subs were excellent. The PB12 dug deeper and hit harder, while the PB10 was "tighter" sounding for music.

IMO, if you can get a gently-used PB10-NSD in mint condition and 100% working order for ~$400, buy it. It is a terrific sub.
Edited by eljaycanuck - 9/9/12 at 4:08pm
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post #18 of 30
9/9/12 at 3:53pm
Thread Starter 
Lets see if I can get the PB10 for the right price. PB12NSD is better but I guess I may not see it my normal room sizes. Issue has always been that I move every 2 years and most of the movie rooms are open to open to one side (usually The screen is 8 ft from me but the right or left, or both sides, are open).

eljaycanuck, did you use the PB10 for HT? As per specs BOTH PB10 and PB12 NSD are same low frequency curves. Wondering if real world was dramatically (aka, even a layman can feel it) different
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post #19 of 30
9/9/12 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
One more question, is there anyone that had owned BOTH PB10-NSD and the new (400W Sledge) PB12-NSD? Wondering if the difference was same as OLD 350W BASH PB12-NSD
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post #20 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

Online feedback says that PB10 is as good as PB12, but there is no comparison between the NEW PB12 vs the old PB10

I could provide some insights there, having owned both the original BASH PB10-NSD and the Sledge PC12-NSD. IME, the biggest difference was that PC12 hit the deeper notes a good bit harder, which is notable in movies to an extent (gives more depth to explosions for example). Up higher in the passband, the difference is much less, maybe two or three dB. Ed over at SVS estimated the PB10's CEA 2010 would be on par with the output figures he gives in his review linked below, which you can compare with Ricci's numbers at data-bass.com, which lines up with my impressions fairly well.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_4/svs-pb10-subwoofer-10-2004.html

I sold my old PB10 a year or so ago for $225 (bought it for ~$400 about six years ago). I think that probably represented a good value to the buyer; I'd say I regret not making a bigger jump at the time. Water under the bridge though.
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post #21 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:04pm
Quote:
eljaycanuck, did you use the PB10 for HT? ... Wondering if real world was dramatically (aka, even a layman can feel it) different
I bought the PB10 while my HT was still on the main floor of my house (suspended floor) and I was very impressed with it. But when I moved the HT to the basement (laminate over concrete - no more "floor effect"), I felt that I needed something bigger / more powerful to "pressurize" my ~3,375 cu.ft. room. The PB12 noticeably dug deeper, played louder and hit harder than the PB10.

The PB10 was an excellent sub. The PB12 was better. cool.gif
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post #22 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:08pm
Quote:
I sold my old PB10 a year or so ago for $225 ... I think that probably represented a good value to the buyer ...
Lucky buyer!
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post #23 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

Lucky buyer!

Heck, I got about 5 years of use out of the thing for $175. That's not too shabby.
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post #24 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:25pm
Nope, that's not too shabby at all. smile.gif
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post #25 of 30
9/9/12 at 4:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post

I bought the PB10 while my HT was still on the main floor of my house (suspended floor) and I was very impressed with it. But when I moved the HT to the basement (laminate over concrete - no more "floor effect"), I felt that I needed something bigger / more powerful to "pressurize" my ~3,375 cu.ft. room. The PB12 noticeably dug deeper, played louder and hit harder than the PB10.
The PB10 was an excellent sub. The PB12 was better. cool.gif

The maybe the decision point for me. I cannot order a sub where I may have to replace it after sometimes. Most of the houses I lived overseas have been concrete (tiles or polished). PB12-NSD is looking better now. Also the size of the new one is just 1" off from the old PB10. This combined with the 45 day return should ease my pain of paying double. Let me sleep on it
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post #26 of 30
9/9/12 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

OK. SVS it is then.
While trying to order one, I came across a PB10 NSD that maybe available (used. They are disconnected now). From the logic above two PB10 will be better then one PB12? Good thing about PB12 is that its the latest 400W one and there is 45 days return. With PB10, it will be no option to go back. Online feedback says that PB10 is as good as PB12, but there is no comparison between the NEW PB12 vs the old PB10

I found this link that includes real world test data.

Followed up by this regarding the PB12-NSD.

The information came from this AVS thread.

Hopefully the above information will help with your decision.

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Edited by BeeMan458 - 9/9/12 at 5:36pm
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post #27 of 30
9/10/12 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
OK. I ordered a PB12-NSD. Not 100% sure why since I had a PB10-NSD confirmed for $450 and a used PB12 confirmed for $600.

I guess I do know, the main difference was that I am kind of scared that I will end up not being sure and then not being happy about my decision unless I go with max I can go . With used hardware you are stuck with what you buy, with new I have option to return. Also in hind sight I had a SW112 which is 12" and I drove it hard and found that at 80% of the max, I was still not happy as it started distorting, and with PB10 I could be lacking eventually. PB12NSd old one with BASH 350W is good but was too large and only thing holding me from PB12-NSD was my wallet. I guess I gave in evetually

PB12-NSd gives me the best option. Not that I am 100% sure but if I don't like it I will be able to say that I tried.

Anywho.....

Onto the next craziness

thanks people. I feel satisfied in the thought process...............ripped off financially.................but happy that I decided to do so with knowledge
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post #28 of 30
9/10/12 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by farif2 View Post

I guess I do know, the main difference was that I am kind of scared that I will end up not being sure and then not being happy about my decision unless I go with max I can go.

Congratulations on your choice. Nobody ever posts they're glad for the purchase they just made because it made them feel all cold and scratchy inside. We'll look forward towards your report.
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post #29 of 30
9/10/12 at 7:54pm
quality is remembered long after price is forgotten smile.gif
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post #30 of 30
10/2/12 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Just an update. I placed the order with SVS Canada (Sonicboom) 3 weeks ago. They are not giving any detail update nor shipping it. Very disappointed with the customer service. When I placed the order it was to ship within 2 week (I called). Now after 3 weeks no change and no commitment WHEN it will ship. Clearly this company is lacking any customer support quality.
I heard a lot of praise of this company customer support on the AVS forums but I guess its a different company now. I am a bit worried that they wont honer their 45 day commitment (excuses are always easy to make). Hopefully I am wrong but I cannot take chances. On to another subwoofer hunt
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