4K… I have Seen The Light - Page 17

Would that be 17:9, or 16:9 with slightly skinnier pixels?

To get the aspect, you divide horizontal by vertical pixel count. The machine is very similar to the VPL-vw1000ES except that instead of two hdmi inputs, it uses the two hdmi plug receptors to accept combined 4K at 60. One can be used alone as it is in the 1000ES. The machine ads a portrait mode and it allows the polarization angle to be adjusted. not sure exactly how but probably to allow optimizatof polarizing poreserving screens with the orientation of the polarizers in what glasses are being used. just guessing on that. Rob McDonnough recently ex of Sony posted in he Reduser forum about this machine. its not much different that the consumer version. The panel native is 1.89 rounded. and by selecting the 1.78 or they call it the normal zoom thepanel is lit as a 3840 x 2160 or a 1.78 aspect roundedThe machine is intended primarily for the simulation market but would have application also in the medical market.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/12/13 at 1:36pm

No, that's only if the pixels are square, hence my question. I don't know what the display characteristics are for true-4K projectors. But from the rest of your description, it sounds like the pixel aspect ratio is as square as ever, and it's a 17:9 screen.
Edited by tgm1024 - 2/12/13 at 1:40pm

Sorry for not saying the pixels in the panels used in both the 1000ES and this projector are square.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/18/13 at 9:52am

At least in Washington state we have a chain store called Video Only, which as the name implies sells just TV's, DVD/Blu-ray Players, cables etc. The sales people there are infinitely more informed than Best Buy employees.

Compression rate is the key to your useless info.

Compress it enough to shove through current tech as delivered over coax and phone lines and


listen to the people complain. You can't even get 1080P over sat or cable right now without

major compression issues resulting in subpar PQ.


YOUR LIVING IN FANTASYLAND if you think 4k is coming anytime soon...................

Compressing the signal is bad as tech exists today let alone stuffing 10 lb of stuff in a 5 lb bag...............

Good luck but do not think your BS flies with me....................

Sony isn't sending servers for no reason.................

Content will be far off into the future.

Bandwidth for 1080P isn't even widely possible.

Large screens is where 4k will look better and large LCDs

have yet to come down in price for 1080P sets..........


Good luck to anyone foolish enough to buy one of these 18- 25k sets...........


Check this article......your essentially buying an upconverting tv and we know where that goes

because there are quite a few threads complaining about that...........pay particular attention to this...quote.


Numerous stakeholders agree that due to the bandwidth required to move 4K content, packaged media makes the most sense as a delivery format


http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/ces-2013-4k-tvs-wrap-412181

As I said its all about bandwidth regardless if some want to stick their head in the sand.........
Edited by Jetmeck - 2/17/13 at 8:35pm

You're correct about a streaming service, but a download service is totally feasible at the present time. I personally don't think downloading will stick as most people want things immediately. This is what Sony and RED are correctly doing for 4k distribution. But, for the masses, a streaming service like Netflix will have to become available. But like you said, in the US, that is far off. We need to lose our dependency on copper and switch to fiber.

*IF* Best Buy goes under, what'll happen IMO is that the Costco/Walmart/Sears crowd will start to showcase the higher end stuff. Sears currently offers the higher end TVs, but not at my local one: The salesman there seemed to imply that it's just not where people go for higher end TVs.

Current HDMI will not support 4K at 60fps. Sony has to pair two ports. JVC uses four DVI for its 10 megapixel projector (released 2008...ah, that's before Sony's release). Regardless of Sat. bandwidth, new MPEQ, Postal Service Delivery, or if a consumer is willing to wait for a 4K 3D download or not (and have the local storage capacity), I suspect a bit of foolishness getting a 4K anything today, next week, or over the next several months. Whatever transport mechanism is being used right now to get 4K (not 1080P/60 3D for upconversion) to the sink (projector, flat panel), that mechanism will change once the industry agrees on what that mechanism will be. Even if it should be HDMI Rev "Next", that means all of your sinks will not support the final standard. They will be obsolete, not compatible or will require expensive and/or "cannot be done" upgrades. Even if Marvell has a Qdeo box in the wings, that still means the sink has to have the right stuff ... and they don't. Not yet. Your money. Your choice. Scaling is a wonderful thing (relatively); but, I'm not that keen to watch a picture where 3/4ths or so of what I see is made up. I don't have a dog in this race so this is just my (feeble minded) opinion.

I feel really bad for those that can';t afford to buy the Sony VPL-vw1000ES which I have owned for over a year now. And throughly enjoyed every minute with it. regardless of its 4K display capabilities being a native 4096 x 2160, it presents what I and others say is the ultimate in PQ given the right screen and screen size.

You my friend are insulting and I prefer that area to be mine alone here on the forum.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/18/13 at 5:32pm

I have no regrets having purchased a 1000ES about a year ago. I thoroughly enjoy it and I would have less enjoyment with something else. Projectors unlike you and I Dennis have relatively short life times. Smeday soon both you and I if we want to race may need to do it in wheel chairs. Right now i am enjoying very much my 4K projector even though I need to upscale 2K to 4K. the scaling is pretty good and nowhere as bad as the average old day scaling of 480i to 1080p. Just like the terranex, there are various levels of scaling other than the relatevely crappy ones built into most projectors. better 2k to 4k scalers are coming soon also.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/19/13 at 1:27am

Who believes that Sony will release a 4K movie delivery system incompatible with their projectors or not at all ?

Art

Hopefully consumer ultra high end projectors will be built in more of a modular architecture to allow easier replacement of transport mechanism, and light source as advances are being made. Barco is trying to incorporate such architecture to allow exchange of light source between xenon bulb and laser, I would assume interfaces could easily be swapped out down the road. My Theta Digital Casablanca has been updated/upgraded 3 times since I purchased nearly 15 years ago.

i don't believe that. I do believe they, the HET divsion, is svcared to death about content rip off and insisted on the loaning server and content scheme to stimulate 84 inch 4K panel sales to only the purchasers of such and making the server only work with the display purchased. obviously as protection schemes are developed etc the new delivery sysyem will be for all 4K machines that can accept HDMI.

in any event we have absolutely no control over anything or any influence what so ever.

My point is there are so many comments here that intimate that we aren't going to get 4K media . Sony simply would not build 4K displays without ever any intent of building players and compatible software.This is especially true for a vertically integrated company like Sony which can go from studio to home display themselves.

Art

The problem with Sony is that it is more like two companies. As a whole it is losing money though the movie part is making lots of money.

Of course there has to be content and a means of delivering it but if you think there is some mystical plan being kept secret from us, there isn't.

Sony simply can't do it alone like in the old days. And when you are losing money hand over fist you just can't gamble that much. Display sales just don't justify the development of a 4K source Bluray type player and the pressing of 4K optical discs. There has to be something but there is no clear answer yet. There are none that don't present significant obstacles but like everything else technology will prevail, its just a question of time. But 4K will probably never be a huge commercial success re consumers. One because of popular panel sizes not presenty 4K resolution a a clear and compelling advantage and even as a better quality source starting with higher resolution and wide color space with more colors due to bit length, most consumers just don't care that much. They think they see all colors now and the quality is good enough in our compressed audio world..

But. I can't predict the future thought Michigan State would rise to the top 4 seeds and duke would fall out. I would have ranked it over Gonzaga too and it will be if MS beats Indiana.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/20/13 at 7:00am

So are you saying Sony will not be producing a consumer 4K delivery system for films ?

Art

Sony got a lot of press at CES for their "World first 4K delivery system" they schedule for release this summer.
What the press didn't pick up on much was that Sony had a 4K media (streaming/downloade?)player server to go with it. It is possible this "cookie box" with a 4K label is just a mock-up so they had something more physical to show and the end product will look nothing like that.

It would aslo be strange if the PS4 wouldn't have this 4K media player capability inside.


Some more images and some talk about it in this video; http://revision3.com/tzdaily/sony-4k-media-player

As for the discussions about HDMI connections to 4K displays now.
Seems like Toshiba might have done the smartest thing on their 55" 4K TV. They have only a proprietary connector on the TV which is connected to a small breakout box for HDMI etc. In this way when new HDMI specs are released they can just release a new inexpensive Breakout box with the new HDMI, and eventually other connectors being released in the future.
In this way they avoid obsolete the TVs HDMI just a short while after it is released.

Don't count on HDMI being the standard...their are other voices speaking.

Attending CES every year, I always enjoy seeing some of the latest tech first hand and 4K was one of the few things that really stopped me in my tracks. This year trumped them all when so many companies displayed 110" versions of their 4K sceens. Even Hisense's screen was breathtaking. They mentioned their (I think it was 55) 55" model would launch around $6K when it comes out which means they are going to be one of the small handful to really stick it to the bigger brands and provide a little pressure to bring it to a more reasonable price range.

I still have my Sony SXRD 60" and am happy with it but after seeing the 4K screens I finally dropped my jaw for a moment and realized it's time for an upgrade

Diginfo - Docomo demos H.265

Well, strange it is then.

The PS4 has been publicly announced and no 4K playback.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/inside-the-playstation-4-a-balanced-approach-to-building-a-game-console/

A system with enough umph to push 4K would cost too much (and need a hefty power supply, and fans, and throw a lot of heat). IMO, Sony was wise to do a design that includes 8 GB of relatively speedy ram.

Sony wants your "entertainment experience" to center upon streaming, whether that be movies or games. They see greater potential financial success with a modest increase in cpu/gpu power, plus they will get to re-release the games from the ps3 library that you want (that is no backward compatibility).

Before the announcement there was speculation that all media bought for the the ps4 would "install once", and thus avoid that lost revenue of you reselling your games. It turns out that at launch, games and movies purchased on optical media won't be required to be install-on-one-system-only, but every publisher, including Sony has that as an option for the future.

Actually, the PS4 *does* support 4k...for movies. Just not for gaming.

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/ps4-will-output-video-in-4k-but-not-games/

Dennis, can you tell us what are the other options that are being looked at ?
Thanks.

But how do you get 4K movie content and how can you put it inside the PS4? The specs say the optical drive is Bluray at 1080p 8 bit yada yada. This is not going to be the way we get and play 4K content.
Edited by mark haflich - 2/24/13 at 4:08pm

See the link coolscan posted:

http://revision3.com/tzdaily/sony-4k-media-player


.....the 4K content is on BluRay data disk....it's loaded into the server and played from there, the same should apply to the PS4........it's happening as I guessed!

The presentation doesn't say that. High officials at Sony during CES said thay doubted 4K would be distributed that way. The link says the content on the loaner server was loaded on by Bluray HD disc. But the server does not allow the recipient of the server to do that. That's the way Sony did it at the factory or whatever.
Edited by mark haflich - 3/2/13 at 6:08pm

Maybe you have a different dev kit, but even if you did I'm sure you can't talk about it anyway.

So I think you're proposing that Sony will sell triple/quad-layer blu ray data discs that could then be copied onto the hard drive in the ps4 for playback? Or did I misunderstand your comment?

What we know publicly is:
- Sony is being very "price sensitive" on the ps4.
- We also know their company vision of the future is "streaming" for as much of the living room experience as possible.
- Their corporate culture is one where many different team work completely independent of each other (and often they don't share efforts). Occasionally the do come together, and it's great but it seems to be the exception. I've noticed this more often in their pro divisions - e.g. see the F65

My personal experience is that streaming 4K content is possible, but man, it is a lot of data. Of course h.265, as well as h.264 compressors, are improving every month, so we might look back in a year or two and laugh at the bandwidth used by streams back in 2013... It's interesting times for sure.

http://www.redsharknews.com/distribution/item/455-beamr-claims-up-to-75-reduction-in-h-264-bitrates-and-works-with-4k

Ok, so I'm building a home theater, am in the market for a projector, and was considering the JVC X75 (I'm really looking for great 2D), but all this talk and raving about the 4K Sony has me hesitating. Even if the price came down 2 years from now to say, $15K, buying the X75 now, waiting 2 years, and spending $15 is near the same as spending $25 now. If I defer upgrading my sound which saves some cake.....

Just for kicks, for those who own the unit, what screen size, type, would you recommend. I haven't run any of this by my local AV guy but thought I'd throw that out here. My space is 15 x 13 x 7.5, so i was looking for something in the 100" range. Any (crazy) thoughts would be appreciated.

Personally, I think the content will come, and I doubt the current unit will become obsolete. I do think it will be a videophile thing and not widespread, sort of like SACDs, which are still being made, but for a limited audience. For me, if I can get that kind of resolution, even if limited in sources, and also have stellar upconversion of BD and 1080i, it's worth it.